COuld i suggest for the cieling that u use the seethrough grate texture over the first texture. SO you see through the grate into that other all confused wire//beam texture, kind of like how many people are using the grating over light technique. It could look really cool. Really good work btw
Actually, I had considered that Trane...but I dunno, in such a large room I don't think it would work right. for one, the mip-mapping will cause the grating to go solid after a distance, and it's look kinda unrealistic. I'm happy with the way it is now, anyhow...I'm only looking to add those small extra details now.
Mole - the lift actually descends at an angle. It moves downwards for about 64 units and then moves downwards and forwards to the walkway exit.
Sounds good then, i liked it how it was anyways <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
OMG merk, those are fantastic, i can't wait to see how these play out!, Keep it up man! I hope you redo the room with the giant window next! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
hehe, i just noticed in your 1st shot the jetcar dropbox is shoeing through (or flashget, whatever they changed it to) that used to annoy me so much when i forgot to turn it off =D great download program though . . .
those new shots are awesome, hera looks better and better with each change.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Merk, are you using the "1-unit-between" trick with the ceiling and the pillars to keep brush-splitting down? I agree it doesn't quite feel like the pillars are *touching* the ceiling... maybe if you put some sort of "cap" on them, it would be more convincing. Not sure quite what it is I don't like, but something's not quite right.
The big display monitor seems *too* big for the size of the details (namely the tubing and LEDs) on it... feels like it shouldn't be larger than, say, 3 feet wide, while yours is probably 10 feet wide. Maybe that's just me.
Other than that? Beautiful. I LOVE the lift and the hallway.
I completely agree with coil. I'm sure you're very proud of your monitor, but it seems a little unrealistic. Great work, Merkaba. I love your lighting style.
humbabaThat Exciting Tales From the Frontline GuyJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 86Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
I think you have a psychic connection. That was the only room in hera that I wasnt 100% infatuated with. The new room is as peachy keen as a peach in a refrigerator wearing sunglasses and a dew rag . . .
I hate to be stubborn about this, but until I find some other way to display the monitor, its staying exactly the way it is! I might tweak the texture a bit to make it look less 'blown up', but thats about it. It NEEDS to be that large, as it is meant to convey information which people can read from the other end of the room.
As for those pillars...they are func_walls, but that shouldn't affect the way they show against the ceiling. I assume its because they bend outwards at the top.
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Actually, I'm thinking that it <b>is</b> because the pillars are entities. Light will go through them and thus no shadowing or brush-merging-shading will be done. That and the fact that there is a fine little (very bright) trim line at the top of the pillars pressed up against a dark texture at a right angle.
It really looks to be the lighting though. The way light travels through entities. If it were a world brush, the section of ceiling directly above the pillar would not be lit... and the immediate surrounding areas would look different I'd imagine. Just a tad bit shadowy-er. And again, the trim also seems to have a somewhat significant effect on the illusion.
At least it makes sense in theory. Seems almost obvious.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Perhaps you could make them brushes, with a 1-unit func_wall between them and the ceiling?
About the monitor: Don't get rid of it, I love it! It's just that the screen housing (the part with the tubes and LEDs I don't like) isn't right... even just a subtle redesign thinking *larger* might fix the problem. If you look at it, the tubing and LEDs are each about 5" across... that's freakin huge. Those two elements are honestly my only problem with the design... the rest of it is really good. If you can scale them down, it'll be perfect.
Do you see what I'm saying? I hate to step on your toes, Merk... I just want to toss out my opinion. (:
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Attatched is the image from the VHE help file showing the difference between a world and entitiy pillar.
The whole point of the picture in the file is to show how there really isn't all that much of a difference in appearence... but I think we can all see how much more natural the world pillar looks. Not to mention how the entity pillar <u>appears to be floating off the ceiling</u>. Keep in mind I'm just guessing here... you probably know more about this stuff than I do, so...
*shrugs* (I'm sure someone will come in and prove me wrong, but yeah...)
Concerning the monitor, I couldn't care less if it makes sense to be that big or not. Contrary to popular belief, the average player does not run around picking levels apart for little glitches or inconsistencies... those that do... well... Their opinion doesn't mean much to me anyways. You could keep refining these things until one person thinks they're perfect... but then the next person will think it needs to go the other way, etc. As long as people think it looks good in general, that's all I'd worry about. And it does.
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Ah, I see.
Please excuse my ignorance, but how do you do such a thing? Setting an entity to block light, that is. Something that is done automatically with Merl's modifications, or something else?
Putting a copy of the pillar textured in null, perhaps?
It's a flag Zoner added, HLRAD checks for it. Lemme see...
zhlt_lightflags Set optional lightflags. Can be applied to any brush based entity.
0 is default 1 is 'EmbeddedFix' 2 is the Opaque flag(blocks light) 3 is Opaque+EmbeddedFix 4 is 'ConcaveFix' (must be used with opaque, this setting is useless by itself) 6 is Opaque+ConcaveFix
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
you beat me to plaguebearer but umm what exactly does each one do? <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->
<b>0 is default</b> Does exactly what it says on the tin.
<b>1 is 'EmbeddedFix'</b> This works on brush entities which partially intersect with worldspawn. It 'drags' the light from the lit areas on to the blocked, unlit areas. Also helps if you're getting unexplained dark areas on other parts of the brush entity, or if light is leaking across a worldspawn beam or whatever.
<b>2 is the Opaque flag(blocks light)</b> Blocks light from direct lights. Doesn't appear to work on radiosity light, or the diffuse component from a light_environment.
<b>3 is Opaque+EmbeddedFix</b> 1 and 2 combined.
<b>4 is 'ConcaveFix' (must be used with opaque, this setting is useless by itself)</b> Useless.
<b>6 is Opaque+ConcaveFix</b> Definitely not useless. On some opaque brush entities, such as arches, there are funny 'seams' on the inside of the concave surface. This will correct that.
All except the default do increase compilation time, but the results are often well worth it.
realityisdeadEmployed by Raven Software after making ns_nothingJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Woah... wait a minute. Sorry to bring this offtopic, but... woah...
If using opaque entities has the exact same light blocking properties as a world brush (do they?)... um... well... that means that...
/me gets overly excited, starts jumping up and down, and runs away squealing like a schoolgirl
*Ahem*
That means that I am going to be able to effectively reduce r_speeds by nearly half in every sinle room in my entire level. The light grates. They have to be worldbrushes to cast shadows... and I never did let them stray even a unit away from the walls of the cutouts due to ugly stips of perpendicular light peeking through... so... if I set them all to opaque entities: They'll stop tearing up meh ceilings! Thus more room for additional detail!
Utter w00tness.
Thanks for the info guys.
/me returns the topic back to comments on the shots
I'm quite tempted to add this to the Quickstart guide as an appendix. However it's rather advanced and not specific to NS so I might let this one pass.
doesn't the fgd have to have those special options (for blocking light etc) added to it? One of the first things I did when I started ns mapping was have a look for them only to be disappointed cause I couldn't find em...
<!--QuoteBegin--ChromeAngel+May 10 2002,20:32--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ChromeAngel @ May 10 2002,20:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm quite tempted to add this to the Quickstart guide as an appendix. However it's rather advanced and not specific to NS so I might let this one pass.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>Please</b> add it - it's really not that complex to use, yet not enough people use it. When the relevant bits are in the FGD, it's dead easy. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
There's also a lighting origin tag, which lets you specify a location for the brush entity to be lit from. Ideal for getting a train to be lit in the right place, or whatever.
Comments
Mole - the lift actually descends at an angle. It moves downwards for about 64 units and then moves downwards and forwards to the walkway exit.
<!--EDIT|Merkaba|May 08 2002,00:06-->
those new shots are awesome, hera looks better and better with each change.
The big display monitor seems *too* big for the size of the details (namely the tubing and LEDs) on it... feels like it shouldn't be larger than, say, 3 feet wide, while yours is probably 10 feet wide. Maybe that's just me.
Other than that? Beautiful. I LOVE the lift and the hallway.
Great work, Merkaba. I love your lighting style.
As for those pillars...they are func_walls, but that shouldn't affect the way they show against the ceiling. I assume its because they bend outwards at the top.
It really looks to be the lighting though. The way light travels through entities. If it were a world brush, the section of ceiling directly above the pillar would not be lit... and the immediate surrounding areas would look different I'd imagine. Just a tad bit shadowy-er. And again, the trim also seems to have a somewhat significant effect on the illusion.
At least it makes sense in theory. Seems almost obvious.
(Really though, it isn't that big of a deal...)
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|May 09 2002,01:47-->
About the monitor: Don't get rid of it, I love it! It's just that the screen housing (the part with the tubes and LEDs I don't like) isn't right... even just a subtle redesign thinking *larger* might fix the problem. If you look at it, the tubing and LEDs are each about 5" across... that's freakin huge. Those two elements are honestly my only problem with the design... the rest of it is really good. If you can scale them down, it'll be perfect.
Do you see what I'm saying? I hate to step on your toes, Merk... I just want to toss out my opinion. (:
The whole point of the picture in the file is to show how there really isn't all that much of a difference in appearence... but I think we can all see how much more natural the world pillar looks. Not to mention how the entity pillar <u>appears to be floating off the ceiling</u>. Keep in mind I'm just guessing here... you probably know more about this stuff than I do, so...
*shrugs* (I'm sure someone will come in and prove me wrong, but yeah...)
Concerning the monitor, I couldn't care less if it makes sense to be that big or not. Contrary to popular belief, the average player does not run around picking levels apart for little glitches or inconsistencies... those that do... well... Their opinion doesn't mean much to me anyways. You could keep refining these things until one person thinks they're perfect... but then the next person will think it needs to go the other way, etc. As long as people think it looks good in general, that's all I'd worry about. And it does.
That would be my opinion.
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|May 09 2002,12:10-->
Keep in mind you're seeing a static image of the area - once you can move around, you'll see no problem.
Please excuse my ignorance, but how do you do such a thing? Setting an entity to block light, that is. Something that is done automatically with Merl's modifications, or something else?
Putting a copy of the pillar textured in null, perhaps?
zhlt_lightflags
Set optional lightflags. Can be applied to any brush based entity.
0 is default
1 is 'EmbeddedFix'
2 is the Opaque flag(blocks light)
3 is Opaque+EmbeddedFix
4 is 'ConcaveFix' (must be used with opaque, this setting is useless by itself)
6 is Opaque+ConcaveFix
(from the ZHLT reference docs)
but umm what exactly does each one do? <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->
Thanks! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
<b>0 is default</b>
Does exactly what it says on the tin.
<b>1 is 'EmbeddedFix'</b>
This works on brush entities which partially intersect with worldspawn. It 'drags' the light from the lit areas on to the blocked, unlit areas. Also helps if you're getting unexplained dark areas on other parts of the brush entity, or if light is leaking across a worldspawn beam or whatever.
<b>2 is the Opaque flag(blocks light)</b>
Blocks light from direct lights. Doesn't appear to work on radiosity light, or the diffuse component from a light_environment.
<b>3 is Opaque+EmbeddedFix</b>
1 and 2 combined.
<b>4 is 'ConcaveFix' (must be used with opaque, this setting is useless by itself)</b>
Useless.
<b>6 is Opaque+ConcaveFix</b>
Definitely not useless. On some opaque brush entities, such as arches, there are funny 'seams' on the inside of the concave surface. This will correct that.
All except the default do increase compilation time, but the results are often well worth it.
If using opaque entities has the exact same light blocking properties as a world brush (do they?)... um... well... that means that...
/me gets overly excited, starts jumping up and down, and runs away squealing like a schoolgirl
*Ahem*
That means that I am going to be able to effectively reduce r_speeds by nearly half in every sinle room in my entire level. The light grates. They have to be worldbrushes to cast shadows... and I never did let them stray even a unit away from the walls of the cutouts due to ugly stips of perpendicular light peeking through... so... if I set them all to opaque entities: They'll stop tearing up meh ceilings! Thus more room for additional detail!
Utter w00tness.
Thanks for the info guys.
/me returns the topic back to comments on the shots
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|May 09 2002,19:28-->
<!--EDIT|Moleculor|May 10 2002,14:03-->
And, thanks for the info. I never knew entities could block lights. Now I can cut back on r_speeds...
<b>Please</b> add it - it's really not that complex to use, yet not enough people use it. When the relevant bits are in the FGD, it's dead easy. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
There's also a lighting origin tag, which lets you specify a location for the brush entity to be lit from. Ideal for getting a train to be lit in the right place, or whatever.