Fustration
Kitfox
Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9960Members
Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9960Members
<div class="IPBDescription">IF u see a skulk is coming, kill it</div> *this probably has been discussed to death*
My head hurts from the number of poor marine players currently on certain servers. I'v commed anumber of games where marines were heading for pure victory, except that iot was cut short due to poor marine skills. I have 2 examples of these poor skills.
1) Map: ns_hera
We quickly moved the base into processing where we could control 2 hives from one spot (datacore, and ventalation hive)(got tracking first and fast). But some how, we still lost after countless efforts and upgraded marines to nothing but skulks, and lerks. OMG!!! How they won i don't know, but the marines are a big cause of it.
2) Map: ns_tanith (different server the above)
We did a tech rush,(got tracking first and fast) while pushing or at least trying to keep and offensive on the aliens. We succefully possessed 3 rts, and killed their gorge abut 3 times. plus we had waste handleing. I finally got enough money for jp and hmgs for everyone and they all died every single time. They just rushed in some where id didn't tell them to go and died, o_O. no prgresss was made on our side after giveing all marines jp and hmgs 3 times. Eventutally aliens got fades, and destroyed all out posts etc, etc. Marines lose.
My head hurts when commanding and losing almost every game. When i make the mistakes i admit it and try to improve but, even a perfect commander can not win unless the marines can actually kill some aliens, and progress succefully. I don't understand how a group of well equiped marines, can just die from 2 skulks while having motion tracking. Even with motion tracking i still have to tell the marines that something is coming for them, cause it's like they don't know how to use it.
PLEASE TELL ME THIS ISn't JUST ME THAT THIS HAPPENS TO your tO.
Please give me some help to solve the problems above *EXAMPLE how to get marines to shape up*. And i'd like only answers that apply to PUBS, cause i don't play clan matchs.
My head hurts from the number of poor marine players currently on certain servers. I'v commed anumber of games where marines were heading for pure victory, except that iot was cut short due to poor marine skills. I have 2 examples of these poor skills.
1) Map: ns_hera
We quickly moved the base into processing where we could control 2 hives from one spot (datacore, and ventalation hive)(got tracking first and fast). But some how, we still lost after countless efforts and upgraded marines to nothing but skulks, and lerks. OMG!!! How they won i don't know, but the marines are a big cause of it.
2) Map: ns_tanith (different server the above)
We did a tech rush,(got tracking first and fast) while pushing or at least trying to keep and offensive on the aliens. We succefully possessed 3 rts, and killed their gorge abut 3 times. plus we had waste handleing. I finally got enough money for jp and hmgs for everyone and they all died every single time. They just rushed in some where id didn't tell them to go and died, o_O. no prgresss was made on our side after giveing all marines jp and hmgs 3 times. Eventutally aliens got fades, and destroyed all out posts etc, etc. Marines lose.
My head hurts when commanding and losing almost every game. When i make the mistakes i admit it and try to improve but, even a perfect commander can not win unless the marines can actually kill some aliens, and progress succefully. I don't understand how a group of well equiped marines, can just die from 2 skulks while having motion tracking. Even with motion tracking i still have to tell the marines that something is coming for them, cause it's like they don't know how to use it.
PLEASE TELL ME THIS ISn't JUST ME THAT THIS HAPPENS TO your tO.
Please give me some help to solve the problems above *EXAMPLE how to get marines to shape up*. And i'd like only answers that apply to PUBS, cause i don't play clan matchs.
Comments
As I'm *on my way* to the CC, I look through the player list and pick 2 random people. I get on voice comm and say "you and you build, everyone else cover them." I start my build order, and at the same time, say over voice comm "you guys that aren't building are group A. If you're ever NOT with group A, I WILL NOT help you!"
Of course, some guys immediately go run off and get killed, but most of the time, the majority of "group A" sticks together. Focus your attention on them and the builders, and just ignore the rambos.
Now, here's the trick: if the people in group A have a reasonable request, GET IT DONE. FAST. Eventually the rambos will see how well group A is being treated, and will start moving out with them. Some rambos will get mad and may try to eject you, but if group A and the builders have been treated well, the vote won't pass. I'm sure I've **** off countless players when I've commanded, but I haven't once been ejected.
This has worked in about 90% of the games I've commanded in. If your marines are hopelessly bad at combat, you'll still probably lose, but at least they have a better chance of winning due to teamwork.
Nearly every time I command some marine yells at me for "doing things wrong" or "not doing <i><insert task here></i>". I know I am a good commander, I give orders, I heal my men when they need it and we have the available resources, I give equipment to the people who can take orders and use it best, I give in-game tips to the marines that don't know so well...you name it I do it. Yet I still get ejected from the seat from time to time, even by respectable clan players. I usually explain my overall strategy to the men before or as I enact it, yet they don't get it. I truly find that <b>most</b> of the time the Leathernecks themselves are to blame for the loss of the team, though obviously when someone in the Comm chair is purely bad at it, that is also another reason.
My only real problem is speed - for some reason my hotkeys don't work so I cannot just simply spam health as quickly as some can...aside from that I do alright.
As a marine if there is no clear initiative and no direction, they will start making up missions of their own.
Commanders need communication.
I don't get what u mean prop.
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So u say they need order. And constant communication of what to do. The thing is that i do communicate the task i want a marine or a group to accompilsh. It's just that they die, and split up to much. Though Flatline has a good point on assigning permanent groups. In the first server side release i remember a commander who assigned an Alpha and Delta Team, and constantly moved them around as such. It was very effective. I'll try it next time.
What i usally do when i have crappy marines i just try to have fun. If u have crappy marines then there is no need to get mad on them cuz they just suck. Give them easy orders like guard this res, guard this hive and when we have some res i get myself a jet and a shotgun and just have fun, CUZ JET AND SHOTGUN IS THE MOST FUN U CAN HAVE in NS.
but if there is some sucky marines or maybe a sucky comm i sometimes go "rambo"... not to try to take out something myself or so, but to find an empty hive... caus after a while you know where the aliens are coming from so you know where they are wich gives you a way to go.
and most of the times it goes well.. i find an empty.. i tell the comm if he's not already noticed me and he put's up a pg.. i build it.. some more marines come's and hopefully we will secure the hive.
then there is some thing's that can go wrong.
most of the marines suck so when they are finally coming throu the pg and i'm building everyone help's me wich leads to a nice attack for a skulk.. especially since there is some idiot that is coming throu the pg and goes away and finds a nice alien rez just standing there and starts killing it wich leads the aliens to you and after a while all the aliens is coming and kills you and then take's out the pg and everything else.
another thing that can happen is that the comm know's you are there.. he gives you a rez to build.. you build it... it comes in more and more rez but nothing is happening.. you tell the comm that you are still at the hive waiting for a pg and some turrets and some backup etc... nothing happens.. you still wait.. and wait.. and wait.. you are starting to get more nervous for some skulks to come and kill you, and finally some idiot to marine show's up.. and you think.. finally some backup.. but no no no.. he stays like a few secs.. think's it boring and leaves..... a short while after.. like a half minute or so some skulks show's up wich probably is becaus the idiot for marine have tryied to take a alien rez tower out or something... if you are lucky you kill all the aliens.. you start to yell for some medpacks since you got hurt, but atleast you killed the 3 skulks that came.... but nothing happens... suddenly you start to wounder where all the rez is going caus it starts to dissepear so you ask "what is happening with the rez.. im at a hive and i don't see anything happen here"... then you get as an answer "the comm is building up defences at the base"... then you go like "but how about this hive.. if i would have got a pg and some turrets and backup and so we wouldn't need any turrets at the base"..... either no one is answering you or you get an answer like "they have fades soon" or "they have fades now"...
wich must mean that if the comm would have put up the turrets and pg and such at the hive it would have just been to go for the next one.. but NO NO NO NO NO...... ok.. this have happend to me.. and there is much more reasons... and don't come and say that "the comm probably had something else to do" or something like that.... caus thoose time that have happend to me... nothing have happend else where... isntead we have a base full of turrets that we shouldn't need...
bha.. i'm to tired to write more now... good night <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
when you tell someone to do something you don't say "Someone do this" you clal them out
If an accident happens you don't yell "OH MY GOD SOMEONE DIAL 911" you point at someone and say "you" so they recognize it
when you tell someone to do something you don't say "Someone do this" you clal them out
If an accident happens you don't yell "OH MY GOD SOMEONE DIAL 911" you point at someone and say "you" so they recognize it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
to be honest being a commander feels more like looking after a group of kids having to tell them everything and like what you said showing them there mistakes and its rare to find a hole team of marines all with initiative.
1. Call people by name. It gets their attention alot more quickly, and makes them feel like you care about them.
2. Give people very specific tasks, and give newly spawned marines something to do quickly. Marines always run off because of boredom. Usually if you give them something, ANYTHING, to do they will go do it.
3. Dont berate or abuse them. Without them you lose, so dont start spewing profanities at them if 4 of them get killed by one skulk. Something to the effect of 'damn, that skulks mean' is much better.
4. Make it very clear from the start that only the team players get the toys. Try to keep track of who is helping and who isn't. Try to persuade the non-teamplayers to help out, and if they do reward them with something.
5. LISTEN to them. Very often, they have a better understanding of the way the game is flowing. If an attack fails, and you hear 'man, they REALLY want (location X)' dont just tell your marines to attack again and 'do it better this time'. But do remember that you are the commander and have the overall strategic view, so another attack against (location X) may be warranted.
6. Dont be a stupid commander. Theres no way to win your team's respect if you have 200 res sitting around doing nothing, or if the aliens have 2 hives and you still have 0/0 upgrades and havent secured a hive yet.
Case in point, my first time on a marine team that won, i heard this:
Comm: Typhon, stand still
*So i stop*
*grenade launcher, HA falls from ceiling*
Comm: Ok, you're my grenade man, i need you to follow (forget their two names, they both had HA/HMG) into viaduct.
Comm: (guy 3 in light armor) heres a welder, follow them to viaduct and keep them welded.
He addressed everyone by name, gave us specific tasks, grouped us up into teams, etc.
re: Tanith, why in the <b>name of God</b> did you keep sending waves of jetpackers? After the first one fails horribly, stop doing it. It's only going to get more difficult. This is where you switch to an HA-based strategy and make sure to hand out some grenade launchers, too. Or maybe a ninja-siege strategy, like building some sieges in the vents by Fusion hive, or whatever. But I'm sorry, a good part of the blame for the tanith loss rests on your shoulders, because you refused to adapt.
Frankly, when my team works together and <i>tries</i> to do as I ask, and we just get owned anyways, I'm inclined to give the aliens some credit for their hard work.
-K
"UnscupulousTuna! I need you to go to Engine and weld some stuff there, here's a welder"
Will yeild a fixed Engine base 90 percent more often than
"Someone get to engine and weld some of the turrets up there FFS!"