Is The Tf Dead?
XCan
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
My answer to that is pretty much YES with 2 exceptions. Securing main and hives. Whenever I comm I always go IP TF 3 turrets armory and another IP. Now before you yell n00b tactic read on...
So now I normally have some guys yelling idiot comm & stuff, but it's here the fun part begins. All you need is cap res like crazy, don't mid TF just cap res as crazy when you have 5 go to a hive and build obs pg. At the same time you should start teching Arms lvl 1 on everything then go for HA. Ok came a bit off topic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . Anyhow the reason I don't go obs immeadietly is simply that I don't trust ppl in pub, If your guard gets killed your whole round ends. And so far I've won equally amount as the comms that go phase and bum rush 2 hives if not more ( since I tech ).
So now I normally have some guys yelling idiot comm & stuff, but it's here the fun part begins. All you need is cap res like crazy, don't mid TF just cap res as crazy when you have 5 go to a hive and build obs pg. At the same time you should start teching Arms lvl 1 on everything then go for HA. Ok came a bit off topic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . Anyhow the reason I don't go obs immeadietly is simply that I don't trust ppl in pub, If your guard gets killed your whole round ends. And so far I've won equally amount as the comms that go phase and bum rush 2 hives if not more ( since I tech ).
Comments
So now I normally have some guys yelling idiot comm & stuff, but it's here the fun part begins. All you need is cap res like crazy, don't mid TF just cap res as crazy when you have 5 go to a hive and build obs pg. At the same time you should start teching Arms lvl 1 on everything then go for HA. Ok came a bit off topic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . Anyhow the reason I don't go obs immeadietly is simply that I don't trust ppl in pub, If your guard gets killed your whole round ends. And so far I've won equally amount as the comms that go phase and bum rush 2 hives if not more ( since I tech ).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
n00b !!
Hee hee. Just kidding Had to say that.
Seriously, though, I use pretty much the same strategy on pubs as well. It's difficult to trust random people enough to leave base completely defenseless. I also just cap res nozzles and put nothing else there. You have just enough time to recycle a res nozzle if a single skulk starts chomping on it. I may start giving out mines to more trusted players, though.
As for obs, assuming you're on a server that has good motion tracking, I would actually build an obs before an arms lab. For 25 points, you get the ability to build phase gates and the ability to upgrade to motion tracking, which helps tremendously against skulks.
Call me a n00b but I ONLY play on public servers. Ritzy punks... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
*cry*
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Only people 3 turrets keep away are people who go 'oh noo tey hve teh turrets in base, we cannoot pozibly get past teh turants!'... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
One of my best base defenders was a newb who had a godly aim, he spawned at the start and demanded turrets in base, he then stayed in base slaughtering everything that attacked constantly demanding turrets, telling me how stupid I was and how our base was going to get killed..
While the rest of the team went off and won the game, while the final assult took place I gave him a turret farm to build mwhahaha <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
BlueGhost
My start is:
2 IPs: 30res
Armory: 25res
Tfact + 2turrets: 63res
After this all my marines can go t o hive and then cap a res and build observatory when we get the res and in the meanwhile skulks wont bother our base. I've made the mistake of trusting you marines few times and skulks have just slaughtered them and we lost the game because we didn't have tfact. The nguess who gets the blame?
Build tfact and they call you n00b
Don't build tfact and if you lose they still say its your fault for "not keeping enough guards in base"
It was NEVER a good idea to set up a turret farm at every resource node you came across, so I don't think it's a "dead" tactic, as it was never effective.
My build order on pubs is:
- 2 IPs
- Armory
- Observatory/Motion Tracking
- Drop a shotty and some mines for one base defender, have the rest move out to a Hive.
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Trust me it was when NS was young and everyone was disoriented.....
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Trust me it was when NS was young and everyone was disoriented.....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The effectiveness of tactics can't be rated when no one on either side knows what the hell they're doing. Just because it kinda worked for 3 days when people were learning the game doesn't mean it's a good tactic.
Why on earth would you build an arms lab WITHOUT a phase, as you cannot hope to secure anything a decent distance away from your main without phase gates anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes sure, skulks can get past the turrets but to do what? With 3 or even 2 turrets you can easily cover cc and inf portals thus all your marines can concentrate taking hives. For example in caged you can secure everything with 2 turrets.
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At the start you have:
IP's
Phase
Armoury
TF
Console
Obs.
The IP's and Phase mearly need to be in LOS of a Turret to beconsiderd coverd, they're reasonably hardy and don't block turret LOS.
This leaves you with:
Console, TF, Obs, Armoury.
each building cannot be coverd by less than 2 turrets however you can use the same two turrets to cover some of them.
The Obs and Console (depending on orientation) can be coverd by two turrets that are not DIRECTLY on eather side of them.
so you can do:
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
obs
t tf t
cons
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Assuming the cons has a vertical orientation that will effectivly cover it.
An armoury is a different proposition though, it MUST be coverd from 3 turrets, it cannot be placed between the TF Obs or Cons and a turret or it will block LOS, giving you a dead-spot.
And all this is ignoring the fact that the two turrets cannot cover each other, so 1 skulk can kill a turret if he's good and 2 skulks can DEFINATLY kill it irrispective of how good they are.
How on EARTH do you hope to cover CAGED with 2 turrets, the console is up on a level by its self which is too small for a full TF + turrets so you CANNOT POSSIBLY cover the TF AND the console with 2 turrets.
BlueGhsot
Make up your minds!!!
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Easy: you don't cover it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you build your key structures in the "hallways" leading to the CC and (later on) the resource node, mines and a base defender do a pretty good job. When you build in the hallways, Fades can't attack them directly or indirectly (with acid rocket) from either the vent or the outside corridor.
I wouldn't suggest putting many things by the resource node though - the aliens (in my experience) tend to ignore that area. Putting an Obs back there can save the day with distress beacon. Larger structures can go back there as well, but it's just going to leave your defender with more ground to cover. Compared with the spawn sizes of the other maps though, it's really not too much more.
I never build Turret factories in the base at the beginning. I just rely on myself for defense, or in bigger games, have a marine or two. If the aliens form a group and take out the base, and whatever defenders I have, I'm safe in the knowledge that If I'd built turrets, they still would have won, because it either meant that my marines aren't too good, or that the aliens are very well coordinated.
I mean, one good alien has a fair chance of killing a single turret, while two can fairly easily clear 2 or more turrets and the TF. 3 Or fewer turrets really only stop newbies, and there's less and less of them these days.
He build 2 IPs, and armour and the nwe roamed around capping all the res points...then when he had like 300 res, we all got Jets and HMG, he teched everything like that and we killed two hive in one run...
But if you insist on staying on topic:
TF is a valid strat, instead of spending money on Obs and PGs, you simply build a whole lot of turrets in the hives and you can win just as quick as a phaser...the problem is, a skilled skulk will kill you eventually, you will have to make sure they dont get the time
TF is not dead, its just forgotten...and that proves to be an advantage
Never mind running off capping res nodes at the start that wastes time, your better of capping 2 hives within the first 10 minutes so you can lock down the game.
1. It takes time to set up sieges, that time is because you have no RTs.
2. Aliens can use this time to do usefull stuff capping RT which will be used later on for offense building.
3. If a hive is secured with a siege a gorge can put something inside the radius of siege blast and let the siege blast kill the turrets which are normally around it.
I think in 1.04 siege cannon's splash damage can hurt itself.
I've seen demos that have lots of offense building on the aliens' side, and the siege doesn't hurt the TFac or sentries.