Thats It!

Cronos · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">I've had it up to *here*</div> I just came out of one of the lamest games I have ever played.

The marine team, used the following 3 tactics to beat us down.

1. Health spam

2. JP Whoring

3. Sensor Spam

A Single JP marine bypassed all our defenses multiple times to shoot the **** out of our second hive, just before we could get fades. He did it multiple times, and since aliens have no decent long range weapons, well, goodbye hive. More infuriating, the marine team cleared out our defenses, and under constant attack and healthspam, managed to build a damn base and siege out maintenance. Then, to top it off, he constantly sensor sweeped the hives and our locations, over and over and over.

The result? Lagging, weakened aliens fighting an unfair fight.

Sensor spam will probably be fixed in 1.04, with it's increase in cost, but for the love of god, lower the JP fuel, make marines have to actually TOUCH the ground to refuel, and put a limit on how often the marine commander can drop health, it's just ridiculous that I can chomp a marine constantly for 35 seconds before he notices me and shoots whilst sitting on a mountain of health.

I never thought I'd say this, I'm swearing off NS until 1.04 comes out proper, I feel cheated out of what may have been a good game...

Speed_2_Dave · January 2003

no offense, but while the comm's doing either of these tactics he's not looking at something else. With 1.04 the hives will spawn at max health, so the issue shouldn't be as bad (especially about how important it is to drop at least one def chamber underneath (or over *shrug*) your hive.

Narf · January 2003

Sensor spam is kind of lame but the other two are pretty good "tactics"
The whole advantage of jet packs is being able to fly past aliens/defenses and stay out of their range. And as for health spam -- it costs a TON of resources if they do it consantly.

Inexorable · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>1. Health spam

2. JP Whoring

3. Sensor Spam</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>So essentially your problem with his tactics is that he had more money than he could ever possibly spend?

Stoneburg · January 2003

The scan spamming is very lame, didn't even know it caused lag. The other two things are perfectly valid, they were put in the game for that purpose.

Cronos · January 2003

No. What got me bringing down the console and typing quit was that one or two people ruined the entire game for everyone, repeatedly, again and again and again.

Last I looked, NS was against rambo's charging into a hive...

ogz · January 2003

dont give him so much res to healthspam <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

which furthur proves the game is about res control, not just hive control

agree with jp abuse before 2nd hive can go up though, most of defences against jp (web, acid splash) is 2nd hive <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'> Lerks can sort of deal with jetpackers too.

Speed_2_Dave · January 2003

rambos charging into the hive and not dying deserve to win. I've done it before, I've watched as others have done it to me. If they outclass you, then you deserve to lose.

As for having that many resources, I think the aliens weren't doing their job, either. Frustrating yes, game-ending, no.

Cronos · January 2003

We were harassing their res points, believe me on that, they only had their spawn and eclipse hives res.

And to the point of a single JP rambo, how would you like it if a single lerk took out the CC and most of the IP's? It's unrealistic for a lerk to do that, so it should be with a jetpack, marines have to be team oriented, one single marine shouldnt be able to take out one hive just like a single skulk or lerk cant take out the marine base alone...

MedHead · January 2003

That's a bummer you had a bad game... not sure what you want us to do about it.

It is my opinion that what the commander did was valid. I don't know why he would want to 'scan spam'... perhaps he just wanted to see the hive. Not sure. Anywho, I don't know what the problem really is.

Cronos · January 2003

Scan Spam = Lag for those on lower end machines, at least as far as I know, I did hear a few people complaining about it when the commander was going off his nut...

Speed_2_Dave · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Jan 20 2003, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>We were harassing their res points, believe me on that, they only had their spawn and eclipse hives res.

And to the point of a single JP rambo, how would you like it if a single lerk took out the CC and most of the IP's? It's unrealistic for a lerk to do that, so it should be with a jetpack, marines have to be team oriented, one single marine shouldnt be able to take out one hive just like a single skulk or lerk cant take out the marine base alone...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
what about when one skulk sneaks by, destroys your obs while you aren't looking, the marines get ambushed, and suddenly you have to jump out of the CC or lose the game.

Stuff happens that you can't control, sometimes it's great strategy, sometimes it's bad luck.

Cronos · January 2003

An observatory costs 25 res or so, a hive costs 80.

The marines can build anywhere they wish, the aliens have a fixed location.

One skulk wont last long under concentrated fire, a JP marine flying around like a prancing fairy can simply not mind any one of the skulks trying to get up and bite him and at his lesuire, make your hive looks like so much swiss cheese...

Talesin · January 2003

NS is supposed to be about teamwork, on the Marine side. Rambos are anethema to that concept. 'Outclass'? Perhaps if you're playing TFC, it'd be about twitch-gaming. NS is about moving together, strategy, and the like. Yes, it has the FPS aspect in it... but even bouncing around like a crackbunny as most 'outclassing' rambos tend to do, a single Marine is intended to be NO match for a single Skulk. Much less a hive full of them.

Oh... and though I've taken down a Marine base as a single Skulk, it was against REALLY stupid Marines, who didn't leave anyone to defend, have phase gates, nor turrets. I was left alone to chomp to my heart's content, and apparently the Commander didn't notice, even after I started chewing on his CC. Aliens, on the other hand, can have an entire team killed by one jetpacking rambo flittering around in their main base, unable to be reached by the mostly-melee level 1 aliens. I mean.. what'chu got. Five Skulks, one Gorge. Yeah, maybe if EVERYBODY parasited the living heck out of him, he'd die. But he'd end up killing a bunch of your guys, and it keeps your WHOLE team in that one spot, allowing the Marines to expand.

If anything, I'd like to see something negative happen when the Marines abandon their original base. Move to a Hive, deny the Aliens the top-level of their tech while being able to turtle up to max. Not to mention only having to hold one point, whereas the Aliens have to deal with keeping two secured.

Speed_2_Dave · January 2003

Talesin-makes it hard to use distress beacon in emergencies (=have to build an extra IP or two). Plus most hives are not easy to defend against fades..

As for the flittering Marine JP'er on crack, if he can shoot while flying around like a spazmonkey, he deserves to win. It's not as easy as it sounds (takes a lot of practice.) Parasiting works great against weak JP'ers.. if he's upgraded, you guys are Reeeaaally slow at stalling their resources.. It takes teamwork to bring down a good rambo'er.

One game I went rambo and killed the teams gorge 3-4 times (once with an escort). It's a tactic to use a rambo. it's bad when the whole squad goes rambo.

Cronos · January 2003

When threatened, he would just fly from on top of the hive around the room, then retreat into an airduct when the hive was dead, and sit at the end of the duct, where it was impossible to get to him. The nature of most hive rooms, IE, large and open, make it impossible for level one aliens to be considered as a threat to a JP rambo.

NS is meant to DISCOURAGE rambos, it does not fit into the playstyle of the marines, teamwork is meant to be their most powerful weapon, not a JP rambo...

{Edit - Typos}

Speed_2_Dave · January 2003

you know what's harder to stop with level 1-3 aliens? 5 HA/welders. You'll be lucky if you get one.

Stopping jetpackers takes some skill, and some prior planning, that involves teamwork (on your side), right? and if he's hitting your main hive, why don't you guys work together, or perhaps wait for a few more. The only lame JP trick I can think of even calling lame is the face that on some hives it is rather difficult to get above them as a skulk or lerk. *shrug* you just lack 1337 skillz against his m4d ones. Practice practice, and hope you never come across a strat you can't handle.

Cronos · January 2003

Between the marines building a siege to dispose of maint, and the JP rambo destroying the building Comp Core Hive, the entire team was tied up in other business. Three skulks running about the ceiling, floors and vents, and he kept on killing us repeatedly. I think somone managed to get a bite in, but he just got healthspammed, go figure.

We lost the game, of course, the JP rambo was laughing his **** off, he had a great time. The problem is, that most people have a total disregard for the fun of others, for his "Great Time" he shortchanged the entire alien teams fun.

When A Game ceases to be fun, I bring the console down and type quit. NS has ceased to be fun, So I'm not playing a single game until 1.04 comes out...

Soldier_of_Misfortune · January 2003

Whatever stratagy works.

TenSix · January 2003

With proper "tap skills" you can keep jetpacking for almost an unlimited ammount of time. The regen speed on them is to fast, thats the problem. I think they were meant for bursts of flight every minute or so, not 5 minutes of sustained flight.

I've been saying this about the medpack spam thing time and time again. You have 50 hp heals that have NO TIMER OR LIMIT WHATSOEVER, thats like telling somone "Ok, you have godmode for as long as you can keep rapidly pressing this key". It should not take 3 or 4 skulks to kill a Marine who keeps getting 3 or 4 medpacks every 2 seconds, thats insane.

Lets get 1 thing straight though, unless your team dosent even know what a game is: <b>1 Person should not be able to kill a hive solo</b>. Thats like 1 skulk killing your entire base, comm chair, and the rest of your team (since no hives = death).

And for the love of God people, don't bring up Fades. If you think Fades are the game enders then you need stop whining and try rushing them. You have a 50/50 chance to kill a Fade if your upgraded, and considering they cost 54 res and you cost 1, think about it.

Nemesis_Zero · January 2003

The issue of 'Jetpackers not touching the ground' is to some extent a bug that'll be fixed in 1.04. From then, JPs will have to land from time to time (and no, they won't get nerfed into uselesness).

Silver_Fox · January 2003

reminds me of a game I played on FoR the other day ..

getting owned in nancy, all was lost and everyone was camping the base.

I figured if we were going to lose, I'd at least go out and do something.

I snuck around the level and killed about 3 or 4 fades. Just had to wait untill they were alone and use crouch alot (no foot steps).

oh, btw - 2 shotgun shells will kill a fade fully upgraded ...

Ahnteis · January 2003

JPs could use a bit lower fuel level, but the trick to stopping them would be a gorgie with webbing. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Cronos · January 2003

Web at one Hive? Your kidding me arent you?

T_RAT · January 2003

I agree with what u said speed 2 dave. If he can get in and over defences with Jp and shoots down hive, yes he deserves to win. And spamming health is fine because he doesnt take down hive while hes using the health u will be left on low res.

edit: What i have done to stop this is:
walk up the walls to where he would be evolve to Gorge then build some OC's up high.
Hopefully this will annoy or kill the JP'er and he will leave because hes getting hit now and then.

Soldier_of_Misfortune · January 2003

Anyway all joking aside:

<b>IT IS A GAME</b>

it is meant for enjoyment

if it honestly means that much to you, you need a differant hobby. One round that you feel "cheated out of" and you post a rant on a general board, complaining about how you were shafted out of a victory. Personally i can't see how you can have a game frustrate you that much, the only thing i can think of is a game being totally lamed out by team killers or something, and in that case you just leave and find a new server.

Kitsune · January 2003

Webs work great against jetbos, in the games when I'm pulling Gorge duty I love nothing more than hearing a jetpack moving towards the hive in the vents. Toss some webs around the vent entrance, jetbo soars out, smacks into webs, drops like a brick, is then curb stomped by a single Gorge who's laughing at him all the while. With single-hive aliens it's more of a trick, since they usually don't have any Lerks at that point, but a Lerk works beautifully at costing the marines dozens of resources in medpacks. Otherwise, get those Skulks on the ceiling and bite him down. Dealing with a jetpacker with one hive is like dealing with a Fade without any weapon upgrades, it's possible to do, but needs fast action and some teamwork if you want to save the hive. Like other people said, the aliens should have been denying the marines enough resources to have jetpacks that early.

More complicated strategies include building OCs on top of the hive, which is a pain but can be necessary if up against a team that loves jetpacks. Putting lots of DCs around the hive helps, too, making it tricky for a lone attacker to do enough damage to overcome the healing.

Also, one thing to point out, medpacks and ammo DO expire. A patch message said they go after 30 seconds, but I timed it at 40ish. They don't stick around forever. Weapons made by the comm do stick around forever until they're picked up, but they vanish on the same timer as medpacks after they're dropped by a marine.

Forlorn · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Speed 2 Dave @ Jan 20 2003, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Talesin-makes it hard to use distress beacon in emergencies (=have to build an extra IP or two). Plus most hives are not easy to defend against fades..

As for the flittering Marine JP'er on crack, if he can shoot while flying around like a spazmonkey, he deserves to win. It's not as easy as it sounds (takes a lot of practice.) Parasiting works great against weak JP'ers.. if he's upgraded, you guys are Reeeaaally slow at stalling their resources.. It takes teamwork to bring down a good rambo'er.

One game I went rambo and killed the teams gorge 3-4 times (once with an escort). It's a tactic to use a rambo. it's bad when the whole squad goes rambo.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Are you <span style='color:gray'>Be nice.</span>?

This game is about TEAMWORK, not ramboing.

Sorry, but since when did the development team change NS so it could be one by a ramboer?

Ayhow, jetpacks are annoying because lv. 1 alliens are powerless to stop them.

Fades can make mincemeat outa them, but nothing else.

It is frustrating, but it is valid for a marine team to harras the alien team with jetpacks if they can't deal with them.

Cronos · January 2003

I've never heard of building on top of a hive before, perhaps that would work, I do know about DC's beneath the hive, perhaps it could work...

And Soldier, NS is more intense game then any other, thusly emotions are magnified to the point that they make the difference between victory or defeat. Bear in mind my original post was fresh out of the server and mildly **** off. Now I am Calm and at peace once more, dont awaken the dragon... (<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>)

Puistokemisti · January 2003

I hate jetpacks with passion
I hate them as marine
I hate them as commander
I especially hate them as krahaa
I curse any comm that researches them instead of heavy armor
I take special care to not to give any stuff to moron who offers to weld hive to death if I give him one
I hope the jetpacking little moron who jets into our hive and welds hive to death since none of our skulks can catch him because how the hive room is build suffers spontanious brain implosion

Jetpacks don't add anything to teamplay
Giving someone a JP is like saying "Run off somewhere and do whatever you want"

I just finished a game on NS_hera where we had managed to secure a second hive which was being build
Marines couldn't get past the holo room or the ventilation chamber without either siege or a lot of time
Archiving hive was defended really badly, only TF and two turrets, no phase or anything else
The moment the second hive would have gone up, we would have faded and most likely slaughtered marines since we could have taken third hive so easily
Then one JPer goes to hive being build, welds it to death, flies to orginal hive and welds it to death too
There's jack **** you can do to HMG/Welder/JP marine in Data Core and we lost because of that
We didn't get beaten because other team was better and/or their team work was excellent
We didn't get beaten because our own team couldn't work together
We were beaten because a single marine zoomed past all our defences and killed hive from place where we couldn't do anything
GG Team
Great example of team work

Terr · January 2003

It IS an issue that jetpacks refuel regardless of whether you are on the ground. You can hover for almost a minute under the right conditions.

<b>Edit:</b> Huh, didn't see the last page of posts somehow. Ah well, mea culpa.

Thats It!

Comments