First off I want to show this - off the main page under 1.1 updates and changes. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Gameplay changes to alien upgrades, to make them all equally viable in the early game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everywhere I read no one seems to mention this? Expecially in this topic, unless I missed it? Once 1.1 is out, from what I understand of it, you can pick any upgrade you want to start, but only 1 from 1 of the catagories. If 2 hives then a second from another available catagory. Hopefully this will definatly stop the whole argument of which chamber should be built first.
Also the silence wouldn't totally work... remember a marine makes noise. Once he dies you'll definatly hear his limp body drop to the floor. Also it would be quite the advantage for something like spikes to be completely silent. There's really nothing big besides your health going down to allert you you're taking damage.
BTW Paranoia-2MB, nice avatar... 'weave' if I'm not mistaken?
<!--QuoteBegin--(e)kent+Jan 18 2003, 11:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Jan 18 2003, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course most people lack skill so they need carapace.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a really ignorant thing to say. You take twice the hits no matter what your skill level is.
And about the redemption for skulks: if you can kill 2-3 marines without carapace, then you should be able to kill 4-5 with it, which is usually the entire squad, then go back to the hive / D chamber to heal. Also, redemption doesn't save you as much with skulks, because there is usually very little time where you are in the redemption health level, and still not dead.
Also, I avoid redemption when in higher life-forms, because with the buffer carapace gives me, I can pick my time to retreat, without having to rely on redemption to do it for me. And since I live longer, I do more damage before the retreat, given that I lose time actually getting to the chambers or hive. However, I do get to pick what I'm retreating to... it could be a fairly close group of D chambers instead of a hive all the way across the map. Still, I guess it can help in those suprise situations where a marine with a HMG pops out around a corner and starts firing it in your face.
ah, another person trying to show me the "Errors of my ways" ...
I know about Carapace and the benifits. I've been playing this game for quite a long time.
But I can do things you can't do with Carapace and live. Such as jump into the middle of a group of marines building a tf, turrets and siege - take out the builders and get teleported back to my hive only to spend a <b>maximum</b> of 5 seconds healing and getting back into the action.
But, hey, what do I know? I'm just some damn n00b ...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have been saved (even by level 1 Redemption) far more then I have been killed by it ... far more ... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm know there are benefits for doing redemption, such as not using a REIN spot on your team, and not having to wait to respawn, but claiming that they outweigh carapace in most situations is dubious. Assuming you attack until you die or are redeemed, that the length of time you live is proportional to the hits you can take, and you are redeemed, not killed every time, you deal twice the damage to the enemy, with an added 14 seconds to respawn on the carapace time. That means if the enemy is further than 14 seconds away (which is many times the case), Carapace is usually your best bet. If the marines are right outside the hive, but not on top of it then I can see redemption being quite effective. Perhaps I'll try it when I find myself in that situation.
<!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Jan 19 2003, 06:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Jan 19 2003, 06:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--(e)kent+Jan 18 2003, 11:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Jan 18 2003, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course most people lack skill so they need carapace.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a really ignorant thing to say. You take twice the hits no matter what your skill level is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're assuming blame when I'm not placing any. Don't be so quick to take offense. This much should be obvious: A person without carapace needs much more skill to stay alive than a person WITH carapace. I think that celerity and silence cancel out the major advantage of the marine: distance. Celerity moreso, IMO.
Of course you don't have carapace if you drop movement first, so you have to actually take the time to dodge. Dodging bullets takes skill. Most people don't have the skill level to do that (or are too used to the advantage that carapace gives them, which amounts to the same thing).
<!--QuoteBegin--(e)kent+Jan 19 2003, 01:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Jan 19 2003, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--RandomEngy+Jan 19 2003, 06:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RandomEngy @ Jan 19 2003, 06:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--(e)kent+Jan 18 2003, 11:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((e)kent @ Jan 18 2003, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course most people lack skill so they need carapace.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a really ignorant thing to say. You take twice the hits no matter what your skill level is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're assuming blame when I'm not placing any. Don't be so quick to take offense.
..... so you have to actually take the time to dodge. Dodging bullets takes skill. Most people don't have the skill level to do that (or are too used to the advantage that carapace gives them, which amounts to the same thing).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, some people do lack skill at the game, but a good marine will normally kill a skillful skulk in a one-on-one fight depending on the terrain.
Nine Bullets is all that is needed and that is just slightly more than a burst. Celerity or not, skilled or not, it doesn't matter how fast you can move or dodge...there will always be someone who can move the mouse pointer quicker than you can move your "in game" self. In fact, it's highly obvious they can spin faster than a skulk can move, or jump. This added to the fact that bullets in this game are nearly instantaneously at their target indicate that you are not dodging bullets, simply forcing the marine to re-adjust his aim constantly and so adding the possibility that he will not aim true and hit a wall instead of you. Although "dodging bullets" sounds better and more skill intensive. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is why claiming what you do here is very dangerous, as you can be insinuating that everyone who takes the odd bullet from an LMG when they have celerity simply isn't skilled enough to play with it without actually coming out and saying it to their faces. Not so. Things happen and you get shot.
I pick between carapace, silence, celerity, and regen depending on what arena of work I am planning on going into and what we have built with our hives. If it's a turret farm in a hive, carapace is much more useful for getting that last bite in. If I am to be hanging out killing enemies in a certain entrance leading to a hallway, silence makes for an exellent companion...even more so with regen. If I am going to hunt rambos that are moving toward the hive, celerity is king.
There are times to use all of the abilities, it's just that Carapace is a nice all-purpose solution that cannot be played down or ignored. It is not a drug that addicts people, it's simply an element involved in the strategies of said people.
That off my chest, I think silence should mask the sound of a skulk bite as it sounds more like a bark than a bite. In case you've never heard a dog bite a person without barking or growling, it is really quite silent....and the lack of sound does not decrease the pain after you realise something is clamped onto you leg and shaking it wildly. Another parallel can be drawn with sharks, many victims that have had limbs severed never heard any sound from the bite its self, and often times did not realise they had been bitten until they saw their own blood in the water and a large figure looming near them.....it was just that clean.
If you wish to know how much sound a skulk should make with a bite: (if any) Get a steak or porkchop, have a friend bite into it, and rip out that chunk while you are sitting about 2 feet away.
I'm all for the system that employs the allowance of all 3 chamber types to be available at all times, but that only allows a certain level and/or selection of 1 of 3 skills per hive complete.
One can use any upgrade they like early on in the game...but defense chambers are, imo, the way to go right now. Within that realm, carapace takes the win for me - personally. I will try your redemption theory Silver, which I don't use all the time but I really do find it has its uses. We'll see how I fare (in pubs anyway) with it. I don't see it being as effective for a skulk right now but again I haven't used redemption "exclusively" since 1.01 or so when I was still screwing around with the game.
As for the silenced attacking...I think that'd be way too good personally. Someone before mentioned spikes, which is a very good weapon as is. Granted you can see the spike model coming from wherever - but if you fire a quick shot or 2 at their back and hide they won't know what the heck just hit them. Same goes for parasite and even paralyze; not that many clan matches get this far - most go to fade and end as I've seen, at latest.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Gameplay changes to alien upgrades, to make them all equally viable in the early game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everywhere I read no one seems to mention this? Expecially in this topic, unless I missed it? Once 1.1 is out, from what I understand of it, you can pick any upgrade you want to start, but only 1 from 1 of the catagories. If 2 hives then a second from another available catagory. Hopefully this will definatly stop the whole argument of which chamber should be built first.
Also the silence wouldn't totally work... remember a marine makes noise. Once he dies you'll definatly hear his limp body drop to the floor. Also it would be quite the advantage for something like spikes to be completely silent. There's really nothing big besides your health going down to allert you you're taking damage.
BTW Paranoia-2MB, nice avatar... 'weave' if I'm not mistaken?
That's a really ignorant thing to say. You take twice the hits no matter what your skill level is.
And about the redemption for skulks: if you can kill 2-3 marines without carapace, then you should be able to kill 4-5 with it, which is usually the entire squad, then go back to the hive / D chamber to heal. Also, redemption doesn't save you as much with skulks, because there is usually very little time where you are in the redemption health level, and still not dead.
Also, I avoid redemption when in higher life-forms, because with the buffer carapace gives me, I can pick my time to retreat, without having to rely on redemption to do it for me. And since I live longer, I do more damage before the retreat, given that I lose time actually getting to the chambers or hive. However, I do get to pick what I'm retreating to... it could be a fairly close group of D chambers instead of a hive all the way across the map. Still, I guess it can help in those suprise situations where a marine with a HMG pops out around a corner and starts firing it in your face.
I know about Carapace and the benifits. I've been playing this game for quite a long time.
But I can do things you can't do with Carapace and live. Such as jump into the middle of a group of marines building a tf, turrets and siege - take out the builders and get teleported back to my hive only to spend a <b>maximum</b> of 5 seconds healing and getting back into the action.
But, hey, what do I know? I'm just some damn n00b ...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I have been saved (even by level 1 Redemption) far more then I have been killed by it ... far more ...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a really ignorant thing to say. You take twice the hits no matter what your skill level is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're assuming blame when I'm not placing any. Don't be so quick to take offense. This much should be obvious: A person without carapace needs much more skill to stay alive than a person WITH carapace. I think that celerity and silence cancel out the major advantage of the marine: distance. Celerity moreso, IMO.
Of course you don't have carapace if you drop movement first, so you have to actually take the time to dodge. Dodging bullets takes skill. Most people don't have the skill level to do that (or are too used to the advantage that carapace gives them, which amounts to the same thing).
That's a really ignorant thing to say. You take twice the hits no matter what your skill level is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're assuming blame when I'm not placing any. Don't be so quick to take offense.
..... so you have to actually take the time to dodge. Dodging bullets takes skill. Most people don't have the skill level to do that (or are too used to the advantage that carapace gives them, which amounts to the same thing).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, some people do lack skill at the game, but a good marine will normally kill a skillful skulk in a one-on-one fight depending on the terrain.
Nine Bullets is all that is needed and that is just slightly more than a burst. Celerity or not, skilled or not, it doesn't matter how fast you can move or dodge...there will always be someone who can move the mouse pointer quicker than you can move your "in game" self. In fact, it's highly obvious they can spin faster than a skulk can move, or jump. This added to the fact that bullets in this game are nearly instantaneously at their target indicate that you are not dodging bullets, simply forcing the marine to re-adjust his aim constantly and so adding the possibility that he will not aim true and hit a wall instead of you. Although "dodging bullets" sounds better and more skill intensive. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is why claiming what you do here is very dangerous, as you can be insinuating that everyone who takes the odd bullet from an LMG when they have celerity simply isn't skilled enough to play with it without actually coming out and saying it to their faces. Not so. Things happen and you get shot.
I pick between carapace, silence, celerity, and regen depending on what arena of work I am planning on going into and what we have built with our hives. If it's a turret farm in a hive, carapace is much more useful for getting that last bite in. If I am to be hanging out killing enemies in a certain entrance leading to a hallway, silence makes for an exellent companion...even more so with regen. If I am going to hunt rambos that are moving toward the hive, celerity is king.
There are times to use all of the abilities, it's just that Carapace is a nice all-purpose solution that cannot be played down or ignored. It is not a drug that addicts people, it's simply an element involved in the strategies of said people.
That off my chest, I think silence should mask the sound of a skulk bite as it sounds more like a bark than a bite. In case you've never heard a dog bite a person without barking or growling, it is really quite silent....and the lack of sound does not decrease the pain after you realise something is clamped onto you leg and shaking it wildly. Another parallel can be drawn with sharks, many victims that have had limbs severed never heard any sound from the bite its self, and often times did not realise they had been bitten until they saw their own blood in the water and a large figure looming near them.....it was just that clean.
If you wish to know how much sound a skulk should make with a bite: (if any) Get a steak or porkchop, have a friend bite into it, and rip out that chunk while you are sitting about 2 feet away.
One can use any upgrade they like early on in the game...but defense chambers are, imo, the way to go right now. Within that realm, carapace takes the win for me - personally. I will try your redemption theory Silver, which I don't use all the time but I really do find it has its uses. We'll see how I fare (in pubs anyway) with it. I don't see it being as effective for a skulk right now but again I haven't used redemption "exclusively" since 1.01 or so when I was still screwing around with the game.
As for the silenced attacking...I think that'd be way too good personally. Someone before mentioned spikes, which is a very good weapon as is. Granted you can see the spike model coming from wherever - but if you fire a quick shot or 2 at their back and hide they won't know what the heck just hit them. Same goes for parasite and even paralyze; not that many clan matches get this far - most go to fade and end as I've seen, at latest.