Ho-kay, 1.04f Is Out.
Kitsune
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7843Members
Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7843Members
<div class="IPBDescription">So toss the 1.04e info.</div> Carapace upgrades have been changed to a new system where they reduce damage at the previous levels, but give increasing amounts of armor rather than all of the armor boost at level 1. This happened because Flayra hates me and it amuses him to watch me suffer.
Actually, it just puts things back at the 1.03 levels, since there are usually at least three defense chambers within five minutes of any game starting. Carapace 1 and 2 are irrelevant except for the Skulk vs. LMG marine opening of the game. So just go back to using <a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/ns-stats.htm' target='_blank'>this</a> page for your shots to kill calculating needs. If this plan is the one that makes it into the final 1.04 release, I'll take the time to fill in the shots for the first two carapace levels.
I'm going to break tradition and actually state an opinion here. I preferred 1.04e's model, 1.03 carapace gives an average of 130-150% boost in alien survivability, opposed to the 100-120ish in 1.04e. That is far and away superior to either of the other two options. 1.04f improves on regeneration and redemption, which is great, but neither of those competes with being able to take nearly three times as much damage in a fight. Regeneration does you no good if you're dead, while being able to take those extra bullets would let you actually walk away from a fight to heal by a defense chamber. Redemption is also fine, but it's a gamble of surviving versus the dead certainty of withstanding more than twice as many shots.
Reducing the armor available to carapace level 1 and 2 doesn't have a meaningful effect on the game, because as soon as defense chambers are available, Gorges will put them everywhere. Unlike sensory and movement chambers, which tend to linger at one or two while people hound Gorges to build the full three, they need no encouraging whatsoever to plop down dozens of defense chambers.
Keep 1.04e's carapace, and 1.04f's regeneration and redemption, and <i>then</i> I think you'll have a more level playing field between the three evolutions. I still wouldn't take regeneration, personally, unless I had some plan in mind that involved being separated from defense chambers, Gorges, and hives, but redemption would be much more tempting than it presently is.
Actually, it just puts things back at the 1.03 levels, since there are usually at least three defense chambers within five minutes of any game starting. Carapace 1 and 2 are irrelevant except for the Skulk vs. LMG marine opening of the game. So just go back to using <a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/ns-stats.htm' target='_blank'>this</a> page for your shots to kill calculating needs. If this plan is the one that makes it into the final 1.04 release, I'll take the time to fill in the shots for the first two carapace levels.
I'm going to break tradition and actually state an opinion here. I preferred 1.04e's model, 1.03 carapace gives an average of 130-150% boost in alien survivability, opposed to the 100-120ish in 1.04e. That is far and away superior to either of the other two options. 1.04f improves on regeneration and redemption, which is great, but neither of those competes with being able to take nearly three times as much damage in a fight. Regeneration does you no good if you're dead, while being able to take those extra bullets would let you actually walk away from a fight to heal by a defense chamber. Redemption is also fine, but it's a gamble of surviving versus the dead certainty of withstanding more than twice as many shots.
Reducing the armor available to carapace level 1 and 2 doesn't have a meaningful effect on the game, because as soon as defense chambers are available, Gorges will put them everywhere. Unlike sensory and movement chambers, which tend to linger at one or two while people hound Gorges to build the full three, they need no encouraging whatsoever to plop down dozens of defense chambers.
Keep 1.04e's carapace, and 1.04f's regeneration and redemption, and <i>then</i> I think you'll have a more level playing field between the three evolutions. I still wouldn't take regeneration, personally, unless I had some plan in mind that involved being separated from defense chambers, Gorges, and hives, but redemption would be much more tempting than it presently is.
Comments
I STILL don't like the fact that skulks are weak like 1.04e.
Later in the game, skulks sometimes become useless, and if aliens only have 1 hive, there's hardly anyway the aliens can win, if skulks are weak.
another thing is: When you join a server and the game is at two hives, you have 0 resources when you join, which means you're stuck with skulk /lerk/gorge until you can get *55* resources. and sometimes it's over by then.
Lerk isn't that great, since i always take them out a lot easier than skulks (plus if you want fade, you want to keep those 33 resources because if you die as lerk, you have all those resources you have to get, again)
gorge, obviously you .. well you CAN have 5 gorges (Cough happend recently cough cough cough) :/ bummer
Great job Kitsune <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
(TipTop)
I very strongly lean towards armor upgrades, for both teams, and those numbers explain why. The survivability boost is profound. I still like weapon upgrades, and still research them in the rare instances that I command, but armor comes first. More precisely, my usual research order is armor, weapon, weapon, armor, armor, weapon. Since level 2 armor doesn't let a marine last any longer against bites and slashes, I research level 2 and 3 together.
The 1.04f changes to carapace seems ... well, not good. 9/12/13/19 means that you need to get three def chambers up ASAP, as you get a HUGE benefit from the third, and just about nothing for the second. Compared with the 9/14/18/19 of 1.03, I have a hard time seeing any advantages from it. At least with the 1.04e model you could just have added some extra armor to the skulks (say, 20/40) and both get some Fade nerf and a small boost (10/14/18/19) for uncarapaced skulks.
1.04f seems to add complexity to the carapace upgrade without any real benefits. In fact, it will weaken the skulks further early on, while not affecting the midgame at all, compared to 1.03. Not what the doctor ordered, I'd say. I'll take bets it won't make it into shipping...
I agree with Kitsune that the carapace needs to be nerfed a bit. As it is, carapace is basically a standard upgrade because it is far better than the other two.
I'd prefer boosting the survivability of non-carapaced aliens with about 20%, then nerfing carapace to make lvl 3 carap the same level as now (say, skulks getting 12/15/17/19). That would means getting lvl 3 carapace would give you a 60-70% boost over naked aliens. Apart from making other chambers more desireable, it would make a boost to other strategies other than DMS.
Which does take me to an interesting notice for 1.03 - notice that cloaking is now flat, independent of number of sensor chambers. Supposedly, it makes you ALMOST invisible right from the first sensor chamber.
Now, that means early game aliens will get a quick advantage from it, maybe making it a viable strategy to containing the marines. Still no advantage from it in the midgame, where you are probably going to be forced to make do without adrenaline, but if it gives enough of an advantage early game, then maybe there won't be a midgame...
OTOH, it will just force even not-so-good-commanders to research MT, and then we are back into MT-negating-cloaking discussion again, and its accompanying make-sensor-chambers-negate-MT discussion.
You have got to be kidding me man lol. Leap is responsible for more than 75% of my kills as a skulk. When you spawn just switch to bite, then to leap, keep leap up and when you see a marine down a hall or something leap, in midair hit your last used weapon key and chomp them. They don't have time to react most of the time unless you miss your bites a few times. I like to parasite them first though just in case i don't survive, it lures them to you and you leap from your hiding place and munch on 'em. Besides the first leap noise is a huge morale killer
(OMG THEY GOT FADES!)
Everyone keeps mentioning lastweap, and I've <b>never</b> used it. Is it really as useful as it sounds?
Personally I've never used it, although I suspect that is down to my play style.
Built hives never fully gestate. They unlock extra chambers and classes, but never act as spawning points, so if your original hive dies, you are stuck unable to spawn, but without 'losing' either, so you sit there as an observer while marines walk over and knife your hive to death at their leisure.
Visually, the hive shows one 'tick' missing on the gauge, and doesn't heal you when you're nearby either.
Enjoy! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
yes, but once the marines have HA or jetpacks (more so the former) skulks are pretty bad off especially if either of them have an HMG.
if a jetpacker can stay in the air long enough, the aliens can't really touch him, except for parasite.. but if he's flying around, it's pretty hard.. IE: Viaduct, Refinery
and HA/HMG vs skulk is pretty bad.. you'll need the benefits of carapace
parasite isn't going to cut it if your WHOLE TEAM is nothing but skulks.. and since they die easy, prepare to wait in line abit, yes?
And it all boils down to the skill of the player. Yes a skulk isn't a match for a heavy armor, or a jetpack flying around in viaduct, no but think about it this way. They have HA/HMGs/Jetpacks/possetion(sp) of hives etc etc you have skulks. Kinda like when the marines have light armor and light MG's vs. Fades splashing them for 1/2 of their lives per click. Sure i've downed a few Heavy Armor guys and Jetpack guys as a skulk and done a fair share of damage to a fade with LMG and light armor but when one team is so technologically "advanced" than the other there isn't really much hope for the other team.
Example:
A very well thought out and executed attack of skulks/lerks/gorges on maintanance hive yesterday which we (marines) possessed. The aliens did an EXCELLENT job of clearing out all the turret factorys, turrets, and phase gates. Marines got word of this from our commander (a bit late but no worries) and soon enough we had heavies down there massacring everything right as they were finishing off a resource tower.
Damn i just realized how off track i just got...
Anyway the point i was trying to make (effective or not) was the fact that if one team is that much more advanced than the other yes skulks arn't much use against heavies and likewise light marines are a mere distraction from fades and onos. A skulk played properly can wreck its fair share of havok on the marines. Be it by parasiting to warn your comrades where the marine(s) are so they can run away or skirmish them, or you can futilly(sp) bite in hopes of downing him or wounding him to the point that he has to distract his commander for health. Going against a little rocket man? Well the wonderful thing about NS is that most maps consist of mainly closed hallways and vents (save the hives of course) but he may have the advantage of flying but you have the advantage of luring him to offense chambers by parasiting him or the fact that not many people are skilled with the jetpack. I'm one of them i'll be the first to admit it. But people for the most part cannot use the jetpack effectivly. Thats why you see more HA dropped than jetpacks (provided you have the resources <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Sorry about the ranting/raving/whatever you want to call it. I just like to support my point.
On a different note, I can't wait also to see who the new alien upgrade system works in 1.1.
But this new carapace deal is kinda striking me as odd. When it all comes down to it, I will have to play with it. I love new patches....it makes the game interesting. Not that it's not already awesome. But there are some things about 1.04 that I love. The new prices and Bldg HP. The new seige and PG rules. And the acid rockets splash being reduced. All in all, I have played 1.04d and e and both are freaking great. Like you said earlier kitsune, they just need to make carapace eqaully viable with regen and redem depending on the situation. They are now, but its too often the situation demands carapace. Redem is only good in a tight rp game(which any good match is), and regen is great for the larger kharaa or for lerk harassing. For skulks...hmm, not really that great, but not horrible if you are good at hit and run parasiting.
How about this as a solution?
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=20047' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=5&t=20047</a>
Enjoy! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Been there, submitted the bug a bit before I posted about it in this thread.
S'not posted yet. Mod's were all asleep I think. :-)
"If aliens have 1 hive left, they should be able to handle an attack with stronger skulks"
pretty much.
Every post gives less and less to marines, and more and more to aliens. For crying out loud, stop looking at only aliens! Look at it this way too!
"If MARINES only have 1 hive left, they should be able to handle an attack with stronger marines"
You say aliens are weak vs the HMG/HAs? Marines are weak vs your fades!!! It balances out. Whoever has 2 hives is OBVIOUSLY gonna just waltz into the enemy base. If aliens have 2 hives ---> fades If marines have 2 hives -----> SOMETIMES hmg/HA (all depends on a comm, which normally is clueless) so if you think about it, aliens have the advantage.
You want your skulks surviving HMG/HAs? We want our marines surviving Fades. It's crap that a fade can easily take out a good 6 or 7 marines before retreating for full health. Skulks have a MUCH higher chance on taking out a HMG/HA than a marine has taking out a fade. Don't forget, Fades have a buttload of HP and armor ,can also blink, awesome melee, and have up to THREE upgrades (which include, regen, harder armor, cloak, etc...). HMG/HAs are slow, and just have a little bit of armor.