Ahhh Pessimism
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Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12092Members
Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12092Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Fight, god damn you, fight!</div> Ahh pessimism. It was bound to happen in fairness, when you have played enough NS you start to feel you understand what will happen after the first 15 minutes, and that’s when the depression sets in. Nowadays people are jumping to the ready room before the war is even over, let alone the battle lost. Well for what it is worth, my advice is to play a bit more and become a little more experienced....
Though Im new to the forums, I have been fortunate to have been playing NS since its release. I too had started to think that games were all but over if the dominant force got 2 hives, and that the fun in NS was the race to get that second hive, and that if it wasn’t us then all I had to look forward to was repeated death by better equipped opponents. However I always play to the bitter end (as it always annoys me when the opposition 'F4' before you've had you HMG / Onos moment)... and playing until the bitter end has taught me a few things about game over situations.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Marines <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
Firstly lets us consider the marines who are 2 hives (or worst case 3!) behind, they have few upgrades and are being acid spammed at base by Fades. A strong tactic is to relocate the base to the hive you hold.. Why? This way you only have to defend one spot and you'll never have Onos to contend with! (for those who haven’t had coffee this morning, this is because if they got Onos then you lost the commander!). Moving the chair to a hive is a valid and more importantly, respected tactic by the marines and one that is commonly overlooked. As an example of this I played on a public recently and met 3 players from the same clan on my team (CSA weasel / trouble and ping something) and we were 3 hives down! I voiced my concern - 'FFS we are screwed' and other such inspirational comments (I particularly like the ‘We come in peace’ line!). Fortunately Weasel knew what he was doing and built a comm (with the help of a jet pac) in the duct near one of the hives (it was ns_nothing and the hive was viaduct). He had a siege up and a small TF before we ran out of resource. The rest of the game was spent as a marine holding back fades, securing RPs and eventually laying siege to silo (only to have the server to crash cos of too many alien entities - they got a little bored!). Fantastic stuff (though I wish I had chosen a more reliable server).
So when your 2 hives down as a marine, get your base moved ASAP. What does happen with some commanders is the strange and nearly always fatal tactic of holding the base. How many of us have played where you are 2 hives down and the comm starts upgrading at base to counter the fades? The obvious conclusion to this is that you become centered around the marine base (which after all is not a hive and therefore a non-essential area) as HMGs are dropped etc. Especially on publics, marines stay at base until they get something good when the comm starts dropping stuff. So with the marines are camped in base and tooling up, the aliens are acid spamming them and the little gorg in the corner of the map has enough resources for the third hive. At this point it is all over if the marines stay where you are. Countering level 2 fades with HA and HMGs is very valid, but the aliens normally get there before you have the upgrades and secondly if you don’t move they will get the 3rd hive. I have never ever, ever, seen the marines win from 3 hives down if they base camp. I have however seen marines win when three hives down if the comm ‘relocates’.
What I am not saying is that this works every time, or that clan members away the tide on publics (otherwise we would not have gotten into a 3 hive situation in the first place – especially on ns_nothing). What I am saying is that there is normally a way to get a hold of the game as a marine. Learn the tricks; learn the tactics and most of all watch experience commanders.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> Aliens <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now for the aliens. Oh this is so much easier and any players thinking of giving up just because the marines have 2 hives are clearly not made of stern stuff. Remember you only have to worry about marines getting 2 hives because if they get 3 your probably in heaven (or a location that is in keeping with your religious beliefs!). If you are 2 hives down then get lerking. What do I mean? Well there are very few places in any of the maps that the marines can siege a hive that are not secure from Lerks. I appreciate there are some that are tight and out of direct line of Lerk fire, but in these cases go to the other hive because it is very, very, very, rare that the commander has thought about his siege / turret factory placement at both hives. The reason for this is quite simply because comanders normally have to rush the sieging of 1 of the hives and therefore placement is poorly judged. Now as a Lerk you have 2 targets at the hive. The first is the phase gate and the second is the turret factory. My advice is take the factory first unless the commander is using welders liberally, in which case take the gate out first. It’s a judgement call and you have to observe what the marines are doing with regard to hive maintenance. Remember marines can’t be everywhere at once and a marines normally go where the action is (something to do with pointing guns around the place and the fact that guard duty is not an enjoyable game playing past time). So find the hive they have away from the action and start work with those little shooters of yours. If somebody phases in, then ease off and probably they’ll the marine walk which is a quick once over and then they’ll gate again. If you do get spotted (and you will, believe you me) then get out or hide. If your 2 hives down you won’t have umbra and I would suggest getting clear to fight another day. Once the gate and TF are down, then go gorg (or better still have a team mate ready with you) and get that hive going. Don’t forget the benefits of spamming offence towers if you have the resources as it tends to attract bullets. Finally set your defences one siege cannons radius away from the hive. I.e. build so that the marines would have to siege your defences and then build a new TF once they are past them to get at the siege.
In no way will you win every time but you should be able to pull victory from the jaws of defeat enough times to convince you that it is never cut and dried (unless of course the comm has built 3 observatories at base or the gorg has just built a sensory tower as your first upgrade!)
Though Im new to the forums, I have been fortunate to have been playing NS since its release. I too had started to think that games were all but over if the dominant force got 2 hives, and that the fun in NS was the race to get that second hive, and that if it wasn’t us then all I had to look forward to was repeated death by better equipped opponents. However I always play to the bitter end (as it always annoys me when the opposition 'F4' before you've had you HMG / Onos moment)... and playing until the bitter end has taught me a few things about game over situations.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> Marines <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
Firstly lets us consider the marines who are 2 hives (or worst case 3!) behind, they have few upgrades and are being acid spammed at base by Fades. A strong tactic is to relocate the base to the hive you hold.. Why? This way you only have to defend one spot and you'll never have Onos to contend with! (for those who haven’t had coffee this morning, this is because if they got Onos then you lost the commander!). Moving the chair to a hive is a valid and more importantly, respected tactic by the marines and one that is commonly overlooked. As an example of this I played on a public recently and met 3 players from the same clan on my team (CSA weasel / trouble and ping something) and we were 3 hives down! I voiced my concern - 'FFS we are screwed' and other such inspirational comments (I particularly like the ‘We come in peace’ line!). Fortunately Weasel knew what he was doing and built a comm (with the help of a jet pac) in the duct near one of the hives (it was ns_nothing and the hive was viaduct). He had a siege up and a small TF before we ran out of resource. The rest of the game was spent as a marine holding back fades, securing RPs and eventually laying siege to silo (only to have the server to crash cos of too many alien entities - they got a little bored!). Fantastic stuff (though I wish I had chosen a more reliable server).
So when your 2 hives down as a marine, get your base moved ASAP. What does happen with some commanders is the strange and nearly always fatal tactic of holding the base. How many of us have played where you are 2 hives down and the comm starts upgrading at base to counter the fades? The obvious conclusion to this is that you become centered around the marine base (which after all is not a hive and therefore a non-essential area) as HMGs are dropped etc. Especially on publics, marines stay at base until they get something good when the comm starts dropping stuff. So with the marines are camped in base and tooling up, the aliens are acid spamming them and the little gorg in the corner of the map has enough resources for the third hive. At this point it is all over if the marines stay where you are. Countering level 2 fades with HA and HMGs is very valid, but the aliens normally get there before you have the upgrades and secondly if you don’t move they will get the 3rd hive. I have never ever, ever, seen the marines win from 3 hives down if they base camp. I have however seen marines win when three hives down if the comm ‘relocates’.
What I am not saying is that this works every time, or that clan members away the tide on publics (otherwise we would not have gotten into a 3 hive situation in the first place – especially on ns_nothing). What I am saying is that there is normally a way to get a hold of the game as a marine. Learn the tricks; learn the tactics and most of all watch experience commanders.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> Aliens <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now for the aliens. Oh this is so much easier and any players thinking of giving up just because the marines have 2 hives are clearly not made of stern stuff. Remember you only have to worry about marines getting 2 hives because if they get 3 your probably in heaven (or a location that is in keeping with your religious beliefs!). If you are 2 hives down then get lerking. What do I mean? Well there are very few places in any of the maps that the marines can siege a hive that are not secure from Lerks. I appreciate there are some that are tight and out of direct line of Lerk fire, but in these cases go to the other hive because it is very, very, very, rare that the commander has thought about his siege / turret factory placement at both hives. The reason for this is quite simply because comanders normally have to rush the sieging of 1 of the hives and therefore placement is poorly judged. Now as a Lerk you have 2 targets at the hive. The first is the phase gate and the second is the turret factory. My advice is take the factory first unless the commander is using welders liberally, in which case take the gate out first. It’s a judgement call and you have to observe what the marines are doing with regard to hive maintenance. Remember marines can’t be everywhere at once and a marines normally go where the action is (something to do with pointing guns around the place and the fact that guard duty is not an enjoyable game playing past time). So find the hive they have away from the action and start work with those little shooters of yours. If somebody phases in, then ease off and probably they’ll the marine walk which is a quick once over and then they’ll gate again. If you do get spotted (and you will, believe you me) then get out or hide. If your 2 hives down you won’t have umbra and I would suggest getting clear to fight another day. Once the gate and TF are down, then go gorg (or better still have a team mate ready with you) and get that hive going. Don’t forget the benefits of spamming offence towers if you have the resources as it tends to attract bullets. Finally set your defences one siege cannons radius away from the hive. I.e. build so that the marines would have to siege your defences and then build a new TF once they are past them to get at the siege.
In no way will you win every time but you should be able to pull victory from the jaws of defeat enough times to convince you that it is never cut and dried (unless of course the comm has built 3 observatories at base or the gorg has just built a sensory tower as your first upgrade!)
Comments
I can't stand it when people give up, that's so not-Patton.
It's just dull, chucking yourself into the turrets & HA's for the 1000th time, especially when you haven't actually SEEN a marine for some time, but you're now intimately familiar with the structure of a Sentry.
So F4ing does have a place, because it allows you to get started, and actually make EVERYONE have fun again, not just whichever side is winning (who aren't really having fun, just spooning around anyhow)
Using F4 is also good if the comm drops a turret on your head!
This is a very good statement.
Although I have my own tactics as an alien to get a hive back from the marines this thread says it all.
More annoying for me is when I play marine, and as soon as fades show up I see the chat message "****, fades" and with it all my compainions retreat instead of forcing the fades back and rush them.
A reminder to notorius marine players: "Fleeing from fades is stupid and futile". It does not matter if you die. There is no frage count and if there would be it is unimportant. It is no shame to get killed by a fade even several times. running away is shameful. Nail those **** and if you can not manage to kill 1 of them maybe the guy following you next will kill one of them 4 seconds later.
Sorry had to give this comment.
Especially when you are siiting in a corner as a marine, running low on ammo and the base is fille with fades..
'A' can come when you repeatedly face opponents that are much more advanced than you, i.e. skulks versus HMGers or fades versus fully-upgraded HMG/HA'ers. Dying repeatedly causes some people to dishearten. After a while, you decide that it isn't worth the overall frustration and just F4 or quit.
'B' is a more tangible event that kicks off a series of events that can only lead to a bitter denouement. For example - you're aliens, down to one hive, a group of HA/HMGers are storming in and annihilating everything. Your hive is under attack. Your gorge is dead, half the team is scattered across the map. There's no possible way you can take out the HA's, who're being welded and med-pack'd by their commander. Or situation two, where the siege base outside your hive just went up with 3 cannons firing madly at your final hope for victory. For marines, impending doom is much more visible in the Charge of the Onos, or the Spam of the Spores with Fades knocking down your door.
So, "sticking it out" is a wonderful suggestion, but often times it isn't worth it. Unless you're a glutton for punishment <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->