Newbie Questions About Servers.

Uh-Oh · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">I wanna make a dedicated server, but...</div> Hi all, I wanna make a dedicated server but I have a few simple questions. Here is my setup.
I have 3 computers hooked up as a small network via a 4 port Linksys router. They are all equiped with either 10/100MB PCI ethernet cards or have onboard 10/100/1000 ethernet adapters. I access the internet via a high speed cable modem (although the high speed part is unstable...).
I have no problem sharing printers and files amongst the 3 computers. Rhey can all access the web and play games at the same time just fine. Evrything is dandy.
I have 2 copies of Half-life (the original game) hence 2 CD-Keys. I'm gonna buy a third one tomorrow (the local shop sells em for 10 bucks). I'm playing Natural Selection on my 2 fastest machines, with all the necessary updates. Now, I'd like to use one of my computers to be a dedicated server so I can play with a few friendd. Chances are it's only for kicks and it won't last more then a week, but if it's a viable option (lag is low, system stable), it could be a good way to host clan matches or play with a few friends during Lans.

Now here are the questions:
1st: How?
I already downloaded the 80MB file for dedicated server and I downloaded the 1.03 patch (3MB). Do I need to uninstall my normal Natural Selection game and install the dedicated version? I hope not cause I'd like to still eba ble to play with that computer.

2nd: If I simply use my current NS game, and go to the Create part of the Internet game aspec, CHECK the little box that says "dedicated server", would that be the same thing as running the 80MB dedicated version?

3rd: Where could I get the 1.04b beta patch? I love the changes they made.
I looked all over the half-life gaming website and I can only find the 1.02 and 1.03 patches.

4th: Do you think the server would be running at a decent speed for 10-12 player games (most of the players live in the same city)? I'm worried about my internet connection speed. It would already be a bit eaten by the fact that one of the player hosted on that server is running on the same connection....

Thanks for the answers and have a nice day <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

HtNickoli · January 2003

1) The dedicated server package is for use with the half-life server dedicated package. So you wouldent use it at all if you already have HL and NS installed on said machine. Just add the 1.03 patch to your ns files.

2) Checking that box is telling HL to run a dedicated NS server.

3) The same place everyone else will get it when its released.

4) NS is more CPU heavy then bandwidth heavy. So without knowing your machines specs that impossible to say. And since the servers running on your lan. Your connection to it doesn't affect or go through your cable modem at all. But unless you have a bandwidth cap on your cable-modem you "shoud" be ok. But as a general rule, you would want a min of about 40KB/s upload capacity on your cable modem to sustain 12-16 players. Of course the main problem with cable modems is there inability to sustain bandwidth at any level. IE: as your cable modems shared pipe saturates the "incomming" or "download" side with other ppl in your area downloading etc, it inversly affects the "upload" side of said pipe. But thoose who run cable modems might be able to help you with the tweaks etc, for running off a cable modem.

EDIT:
Heres a page that might be of interest to you and other ppl who use cable-modems/dsl-modems for running servers.
<a href='http://cable-dsl.home.att.net/' target='_blank'>http://cable-dsl.home.att.net/</a>

Uh-Oh · January 2003

Wow Nickoli! Thanks for all the info! So, if I understand correctly:

-I really dont need that 80MB file
-I just go to Multiplayer --> Internet Games --> Create Game --> Check the little "Dedicated Server" square.
-I can't get the 1.04b patch (then how do servers get it? I keep playing on 1.04 servers, cause its so much better then 1.03 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> )
-As for the CPU and Bandwith issue, right now, I think it's gonna be iffy.

My hardware should be okay, I'd run it on an:
AthlonXP 1900+ (1.66)
384MB PC-133
At least 2.5 gig of free space at all times

Right now, the memory is running at 100 instead of 133, and the clock is set at 1.2gig instead of 1.66 (100/100 instead of 133/133). I'm having a really big problem with the motherboard (ECS K7S5A, if I set the bios at 133/133 or 100/133, the computer won't run. So, I need to set it at 100/100).
As for the bandwith... I'm currently a customer of the local cable company and the service they offer isn't very good (but they are the only ones around that offer high speed internet). I have a maximum download and upload, and they are limiting the maximum upload speeds, last I heard. I can download 6 gig per months before being charged at a per MB costs <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> And my maximum upload is of 5 gig. I'm uncertain of the maximum upload speed, I heard from a friend that it could be around 14KB <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> but that may have changed. Gonna have to make a phone call....

Problem im currently having: I run a dedicated server, but it doesn't seem to work properly... I get a little MS-DOS window, then there are commands that are being ran, then I see the 3 "Adding Master Server ...." messages, and it stops there...

cracker_jackmac · January 2003

my suggestion is don't host a server. With you cable company it sounds like your going to get jacked up. i'm all for cable servers, but it really sounds like you got a bad ISP, which isn't good for hosting cable on.

HtNickoli · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uh-Oh @ Jan 9 2003, 10:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Wow Nickoli! Thanks for all the info! So, if I understand correctly:

-I really dont need that 80MB file
-I just go to Multiplayer --> Internet Games --> Create Game --> Check the little "Dedicated Server" square.
-I can't get the 1.04b patch (then how do servers get it? I keep playing on 1.04 servers, cause its so much better then 1.03 <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'> )
-As for the CPU and Bandwith issue, right now, I think it's gonna be iffy.

My hardware should be okay, I'd run it on an:
AthlonXP 1900+ (1.66)
384MB PC-133
At least 2.5 gig of free space at all times

Right now, the memory is running at 100 instead of 133, and the clock is set at 1.2gig instead of 1.66 (100/100 instead of 133/133). I'm having a really big problem with the motherboard (ECS K7S5A, if I set the bios at 133/133 or 100/133, the computer won't run. So, I need to set it at 100/100).
As for the bandwith... I'm currently a customer of the local cable company and the service they offer isn't very good (but they are the only ones around that offer high speed internet). I have a maximum download and upload, and they are limiting the maximum upload speeds, last I heard. I can download 6 gig per months before being charged at a per MB costs <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> And my maximum upload is of 5 gig. I'm uncertain of the maximum upload speed, I heard from a friend that it could be around 14KB <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> but that may have changed. Gonna have to make a phone call....

Problem im currently having: I run a dedicated server, but it doesn't seem to work properly... I get a little MS-DOS window, then there are commands that are being ran, then I see the 3 "Adding Master Server ...." messages, and it stops there...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Nope you dont need the dedicated server files.

You can also start a ded server useing a shortcut to the hlds.exe file. Just edit the server.cfg file in ns with notepad etc. And set your hostname and other settings you want.

That pc running windows should be able to host your server fine. (and you memory speed issue sounds like a bad mem chip)

But if your bandwidth is capped at 14KB/s, I wouldent waste time trying to run say, more then 3-6 clients on it. Not includind thoose on your lan. And 5 GB is nothing. I do that just playing NS a month.

I know my cable company (rogers) recently capped my modem to 20kb/s. Really ghey if you ask me. But since I mainly use home pc for IRC and playing I'm not to concerned about it. But I know my dedicated server that is colocated uses roughly 30KB/s for 16 players on average. With access to a 10MB pipe. best speeds I've ever gotten though is around 8MB/s.

Bandwidth in bits/sec (divide by 8 for bytes)
<a href='http://www.hostilism.com/brothel/mrtg/traffic.html' target='_blank'>Bandwidth useage</a>

But you might also want to take crackers advice. because by the sounds of your cable isp providers settings, running a server is against your agreement.

Uh-Oh · January 2003

My ISP is Vidéotron, I bet you know em. They've been having financial problems lately, workers are on strike and all that... I even got my access interrupted because a few workers had a field day with scisors and cutters <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Bigtoy · January 2003

Just have to add my 2 cents about the whole Cable Modem FUD that has been spread...
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
4) NS is more CPU heavy then bandwidth heavy. So without knowing your machines specs that impossible to say. And since the servers running on your lan. Your connection to it doesn't affect or go through your cable modem at all. But unless you have a bandwidth cap on your cable-modem you "shoud" be ok. But as a general rule, you would want a min of about 40KB/s upload capacity on your cable modem to sustain 12-16 players. <b>Of course the main problem with cable modems is there inability to sustain bandwidth at any level. IE: as your cable modems shared pipe saturates the "incomming" or "download" side with other ppl in your area downloading etc, it inversly affects the "upload" side of said pipe. But thoose who run cable modems might be able to help you with the tweaks etc, for running off a cable modem.</b>
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

This is not always true. The ability for your cable modem to provide bandwidht (both up and downstream) has everything with how the cable company in your area built their network and how many subscribers they add to a trunk. It is not a weakness of the cable modem technology itself.

I have lived in three different areas in the last 2.5 years with cable modem access in all three areas. I would have never tried to run a NS server out of Raleigh, NC as the Road-Runner access in that area was very iffy most of the time. However, in both Illinois and Georgia I have found that the service provided has been more than reasonable. It is my servers CPU (a 1.1G Celeron) that is the bottleneck, not the network.

Both DSL and Cable ISPs will suck if they build there network so that there are bottlenecks at central locations or put to many subscribers on a trunk.

verbose · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bigtoy_j @ Jan 9 2003, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Both DSL and Cable ISPs will suck if they build there network so that there are bottlenecks at central locations or put to many subscribers on a trunk.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Actual setups may differ, but DSL traffic is generally aggregated when it hits the telco's ATM cloud. If the telco's ATM cloud is saturated...well, that's bad, so we'll assume there's plenty of room there. Next up is the telco-ISP link. The ISP probably gets their DSL traffic from the telco via one or more, DS3 or larger, circuits. Generally no saturation problems here either. All that's left is the ISP's internal equipment, and their upstream link(s).

With cable, your traffic is aggregated with your neighbor's. It is possible, and commonplace in some markets, for a given node to be saturated to the point that each user gets a fairly low bitrate. So, not only do you have to worry about your ISP's upstream link being full, but you may have to worry about your given neighborhood's node being full. It all depends on your city, or even your neighborhood.

The cable network where I live is mostly empty. I have both DSL and Cable, but I do most of my gaming over my DSL due to its consistency. If I were to host a gaming server at my residence, I'd prefer to do it via DSL. Cable may be more than adequate in your area; ask around, or try it. Most cable co's don't require a contract, so if it sucks, you cancel.

I'm spoiled. I run the tech side of the DSL ISP, so I can just drop my servers in the data center and ride a DS3 out <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Newbie Questions About Servers.

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