Plea To Commanders
kingmob
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">stop sucking</div> this is in response to the "plea to footsoldiers" thread
i don't know how many games i have played where the commander sucked
and i am not talking about just losing
i am talking about non-interaction
if you are the commander
i don't care if you don't know what you are doing
i don't care if you think you will fail
i don't care if your hotpocket fell on the floor
JUST GIVE ME SOMETHING TO DO
a waypoint ....something to build <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
we are definately not going to win without instruction
that's it for my request list <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
i don't know how many games i have played where the commander sucked
and i am not talking about just losing
i am talking about non-interaction
if you are the commander
i don't care if you don't know what you are doing
i don't care if you think you will fail
i don't care if your hotpocket fell on the floor
JUST GIVE ME SOMETHING TO DO
a waypoint ....something to build <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
we are definately not going to win without instruction
that's it for my request list <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
If you have, then you already know what I'm talking about.
I think I can safely speak for all good commanders when I say that if you're bored and feel like you're not doing anything, be patient. We'll get around to you eventually, and for the time being, you're better off staying put. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Instead, I call out the names of locations, and I try to use the name's of the marines. I find that this has several pleasant consequences:
- Marines more frequently carry out orders when they've been specifically called on. "someone phase to vent and build that SG" often results in nobody going, as they all assume someone else will do it.
- If they're decent marines and not wandering off, I have a good idea where they are. I know I sent Bob and Jane to cargo, so I can tell them to move to generator without even moving my map. Extremely handy if I'm also babysitting a squad that's assaulting a hive at the same time.
- If my footsoldiers don't know the location names, I'm helping them to learn.
- etc.
But, when things get hectic, names go out the window. "Get to vent! everyone!"
The commander will not win the game for you. He can lose the game for you, but winning is often more in the hands of the marines. The comm is often extremely busy. Take some initiative. Spin thru the phase gates quick to make sure all the forward positions are intact. Make a suggestion "comm, want me to move on to generator?" Try not to stray too far from base or a phase gate though without confirmation from the comm. Nothing is more discouraging then calling all your troops to defend base, and finding they've all wandered 30 seconds away from a phase gate. Base is dead before they make it back.
/me " There are 3 places where you can be right now. In base guarding, in the (1st hive) , or in (2nd hive). You should not be anywhere else, if your not there, get there, if you are there, stay there. Take your pick."
I almost always say this when we have come to a point where i want everyone doing something. If your a marine, i would suggest following the above, even if your commander is silent. You should know where your other marines are working and fighting ( I do, when I'm just a grunt, you should too). Make a decision, the commander is there to help you, not think for you.
--Edit-- Playing commander everyone once in a while works wonders for the average grunt, and a commander with good aim is probably the best soldier you can get. I know that when i play grunt, im always checking on things in my off time. If i see that a outpost is getting hit by skulks, or see that a outpost is undefended i'll stay and guard. And going through the phasegates is a good habit to pick up.
Believe me, I will. Start by cleaning the vents with a toothbrush. Oh, and an Onos took a dumb in atmo; here's your mop.
If you are a marine and dont know what you should be doing....
A - Follow another marine
B - Defend base
C - Join the aliens
I have no idea what this means, but I like the rest.
a small request went right over heads
i was requesting a commander ...command (god fergive me)
making a joke out of the fact that there seems to be plenty of noob
commanders too
and (some) commanders told me i should know what to do
verbose wins for the most intelligent response BTW
all you noob commanders pay attention :-)
n00b commanders don't make hundreds of posts in the strategy forums. n00b marines do (why they don't learn is anyone's guess). Asking for an end to n00b-ness here is both pointless in the sense that the targer audience will not read it, and pointless in the sense that n00b don't take kindly to being berated constantly.
In the end when the hive was looking to be ours I selected him and told him to defend the armoury in base which was right next to him lol and he jumped on it and stayed there for the entire game <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
- You do as he asks: to take a hive with a group. Done. We ask to drop the PG now as we are now at the hive. A while later, still no PG and there is 50 RP sitting in the bank... and then it is gone to find that it was spent on an armslab. Okay, first off, when you are making critical moves like this you need to be ready to build and/or have at least 20 RP left over from whatever else you were doing. This is just a bad play.
- Inability to use distress beacon. Even good comms seem to not know when to use it. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
- Sitting idle with more than 100 RP. You shouldn't ever be over 50-60 RP! EVER!
These are the only things I have against most commanders, otherwise, I am their peon-warrior-guy. Most good comms won't have such problems.
Why? I can be a great commander and have decent to disobedient marines and lose.
Or. I can be a great grunt and have a decent to bad commander and win.
Me and my friend were able to take 2 hives and hold them and build phase gates and a turret factory. (We eventually lost both, because each time since the other 6 marines like to do nothing, we had to run back and place buildings then run back and build them. ) We took turns being comm. A
We did a damn good job for 2 marines against like 6 other rather good alien players.
A sqaud of marines that command the map are better than a commander running a squad of marines around.
Also, since only four thousand people said it already, don't rambo. Partner up AT LEAST. At best, stick with three or four guys. Survivability in this game increases not linearly but exponentially with the number of grunts in your immediate proximity.
Eh, I disagree with that one. Good comms can have good reasons to sit on a bunch of res. Perhaps you have a squad on their way to a hive, and you want to be able to drop PG, RC, TF, and 4 or 5 SGs fast. Too many commanders drop the TF before they have the res to build a single SG, only to watch a skulk munch their marines and the unprotected TF a minute later. Bye bye 25.
Maybe you're getting ready to outfit a squad with all the toys. That can burn a lot of res, fast. Maybe you're waiting for the level 2 armor upgrade to finish so you can start level 3, but you're also preparing to drop a TF and various turrets for a hive assault. Etc., etc.
I hate when my grunts complain that I won't give them a shotgun when we have 80 res in the bank. When I say "no", I have a reason. I don't just deny goodies because I'm an evil person.
A sqaud of marines that command the map are better than a commander running a squad of marines around.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm twice the commander when I have a few good grunts being my field eyes. They know better than I do whether they can just LMG that chamber emplacement, or if we need to siege our way in. They need me to tell them that our forward base is under attack. I have the macro, they take care of the micro.
I know I have a cluster of newbie grunts when I find myself having to micro-manage them. "No I will not give you a waypoint. If you don't know where the hive is, then you should have followed the other three guys that just left base. Congratulations, you've just been promoted to base duty. Hope you kill something before you get killed yourself." <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
In summary, I agree. A good commander is nothing without decent marines, but decent marines can put just about anyone in the chair, and win a game (provided the comm has at least some clue. Decent TF and SG placement, etc.). A good commander with good marines is a very formidable force.
I have 5-7 marines, all asking for health/hmg/armor/jetpacks/shotguns/ammo
I have to look out for Kharaa attacking.
I have to upgrade your equipment, so you dont whine and eject me.
I'm sorry if I cant hold your hand and tend to your every need all the frigging time.
As for waypoints i only give them when asked, if they dont want i dont give.
But if the marines suck then yes i will give them orders for everything, but if the marines r good they know what there doing and what u r thinking.
Welding (I'm not the best shot)
If not welding, then guard base/forward base(s)
Move to waypoint (with support)
Wait.
When waiting in hostile territory:
Stand Still!! I can't count the number of times I've hid in a corner and watched half a dozen skulks and fades go by because I wasn't moving, jumping, etc.
As a relatively newbie I'm also very hesitant to pickup/equip any of the heavy weaponry unless explicitly told to do so. In many cases it is just a waste, so I'll allow those I know can use them better have them. (exception is of course the welder, I'm a FANTASTIC repair guy <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm very happy with my LMG. The exception to this is when a marine goes down. In order to conserve resources, I'll recover the HMG. I've heard many a curses from comm over the newbie picking up the HMG/HA and going rambo resulting in an alien snack and the waste of xx resources.
Another point I think is worth mentioning is the giving of health packs. I understand nobody wants to die, but health packs are what 2 RP? Unless you're deep in enemy territory where dying would actually matter, wouldn't it be more economical to die and respawn than to request health packs? So the only times I'll get health is when a comm does it on his own.
I so agree. I think there's another thread all about annoying marines who keep spamming "Medpack!" when they're in the red IN THE MARINE BASE. I politely try to persuade them that it's not CS so their frag count doesn't matter (heck, it doesn't even show) and that it's cheaper to respawn for 1 RP with FULL ARMOR than to wase 4 RP on health and still zero armor.
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On a separate note, and back to the topic: I so love those games where I hardly have to give a waypoint to get things done. I like giving a running commentary as I comm, telling people what's the current plan, where to go and what to do (in between waiting for RPs to accumulate), and it's very satisfying to see the more experienced marines acknowledge and head off in nice little squads on their own. Those games are the best, where I can pull off 2-hive-lockdowns and defend them and eventually have the army march in with GLs in HA.
Sometimes when a volunteer offers to secure a node I forget and leave him there to deal with defences elsewhere and when he reminds me a good 5 minutes later, he's still there! I tell you, these guys are precious. Makes you very glad to be a commander.
Of course, more often than not you have a good complement of not-very-bright newbies who don't do anything useful and a few mavericks who kill well but also don't do anything useful. And sometimes you get either one of those two kinds who spend the whole game trying to get you ejected cos you didn't give them a shotty. Ugh.
I wish commanders had a slap command like in Dungeon Keeper.
I too am a decent marine and a decent commander, but seem to have a better effect as a marine, as i can offer advice and don't get berated. Also I know where the best positions are for me to get into.
I was comming one map because the comm left and was going for a dual seige location rather than a hive. My marines refused to go there (said 'its blocked' by a coulpe of off. chams that they could run past! not to mention there was an alternative route!). Then I got them to go to a hive which they preferred, so they ALL went there and even though there was a phase gate didn't come and defend the base so we lost the ip's and i was 'the worst comm ever'.
Marines should not *demand* of their commander they should suggest. In fact when people follow orders i give them hp/ammo. And please use the ingame menu. One guy kept saying 'ammo comm' i said 'use the menu please so i can jump', 'AMMO COMM' later when they died... 'this comm's rubbish i was asking for ammo for 4mins and nothing.' Sometimes you just don't know why you bother.
- Sitting idle with more than 100 RP. You shouldn't ever be over 50-60 RP! EVER!
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Eh not true. If me boys have done well and have basically won the game ill leave them to it, save up ~200 res then call them all back to base and give em all a HA+hmg+weild all in one hit and send em all to the last hive.
I very rarely give out individual weapons as im a pro-upgrader. (u do realise weapon upgrades effects your turret farms as well?) and most of my games are won by LMGs.
Therefor i can afford to save and reward <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (shottie + Jp = fun <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)
If your take the commander chair, and you have seen how others have done the job before you. You dont have to play like they did, you dont need to make the same decisions/tactics as they did. You can be creative while making your own decisions, this is my wish for future commanders because its so easy to predict what are you going to do.
ns_eclipse; There is 70% of change that you will command your troops to secure maintaince & securing horseshoe is almost sure. If securing maintance fails, your troops will secure eclipse (change that this will happen is higher than 80% after securing maintance fails or succeeds).
Sewer/Ventilation/Generator (map with these hives). There is higher than 60% of change that you will decide to make resource tower near sewer vestipule, and that you will secure sewer hive first. Than there is about 50% of change that your troops will goto Generator, and if capturing sewers fails the change to secure Generator is about 80%.
Refinery/Engine/Feedwater , your troops will move to processing and they will secure 2 nozzles (build 2 res towers, TF and turrets). Then your troops will move to Feedwater.. Sometimes i think to myself "why dont they ever change their tactics..even they have new commander"
This list can go forever <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. Its so easy to predict events before they happen.