Games Are A Tad Repetitive
Defcon
Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9402Members
Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9402Members
Well, the games structure might look complex but when you get good, the game suddenly gets obvious, and boring.
At the moment the structure of the game comes down to:
1) Aliens have 1 hive, marines have the base
2) Aliens fail defending 3rd hive, marines take it
3) Couple marines go out, build phase, share defence over the 2 hives
4) 45 minutes till the end of the game
<b>Possibly point 3 will fail for the marines leading to</b>
Fades, Lerks with Umbra, game over for any hardcore alien team, marines wont be able to do anything.
Or if marines didn't defend both hives as much and choose jetpacks/hmgs, they'll gun down the last hive, **obscenity**.
<b>Before you tell me 1.04 solves this, don't, it's only going to lead to more balance issues, the devs are only looking one balance change ahead, you must look at it like chess, you need to think of the consequences of every move (balance <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></b>
Thats really this game summed up, every game it's usually the same, it's incredibly dull with no versatility in most commanders tactics.
Flayra, I'd really like a quick 15 minute chat on the balance issues, else the games simply going to get dull and it's player base will fade away as clans get better and better and realise what NS actually offers.
At the moment the structure of the game comes down to:
1) Aliens have 1 hive, marines have the base
2) Aliens fail defending 3rd hive, marines take it
3) Couple marines go out, build phase, share defence over the 2 hives
4) 45 minutes till the end of the game
<b>Possibly point 3 will fail for the marines leading to</b>
Fades, Lerks with Umbra, game over for any hardcore alien team, marines wont be able to do anything.
Or if marines didn't defend both hives as much and choose jetpacks/hmgs, they'll gun down the last hive, **obscenity**.
<b>Before you tell me 1.04 solves this, don't, it's only going to lead to more balance issues, the devs are only looking one balance change ahead, you must look at it like chess, you need to think of the consequences of every move (balance <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></b>
Thats really this game summed up, every game it's usually the same, it's incredibly dull with no versatility in most commanders tactics.
Flayra, I'd really like a quick 15 minute chat on the balance issues, else the games simply going to get dull and it's player base will fade away as clans get better and better and realise what NS actually offers.
Comments
A battle for the 3rd hive. Aliens are meant to get their 2nd hive. Marines will occupy the 3rd hive. The two teams will tech up and fight for ressource and control of the last hive. I've seen more of those games lately, and they are a refreshing change for the "Six pool zergling rush" that marines comm tend to rely on at the moment.
Why?
Several changes to the marines makes it very hard to set up that 2nd hive fortification very fast. It is necessary to lock down hive so that a lost PG wont mean the end of it. This means aliens will get a 2nd hive. And that the marines are going to tech up and face the fades.
Like most strategy games, the outcome of the game is pretty much decided in the first moves.
Yes, I would agree that NS is getting a little repetitve, but the fault is not with the games design, it is with the people that play the game (speaking about pub games, of course.) Most games I play, my team wins, usually because I have some friends or clan members on my team and we work together to accomplish our goals. If I command, it is utterly boring in 1.03, if there are a couple of competent players on my team, winning is usually easy. The problem is that most pub teams have such a scattered range of skill that they don't know how to use their strengths and weaknesses to their benifit.
I LOVE being a marine and having the aliens get a second hive, or when I'm playing alien and the marines have one of our hives and we are fighting for the second. This usually means that the other team has some idea about what they are doing, and they actually stand a chance. This is when the game loses the repitition you are experiancing, and becomes a full-out war, nothing can be expected. I too am tired of playing against players and teams that don't provide much of a challenge, but I don't blame the design of the game for this problem.
yes.. i think NS was made to be like that.. SADLY
fades seem to dominate ... once a whole team goes fades except for 1 or 2 lerks and a gorge.....
i never see enuff resources for marines to be able to take down fades..
and for all of u who say "LMG RUSH THEM"
yes i do that.. but if its 3 fades.... if each shoot 1 or 2 acid rockets ur squad of 3 or 4 gung ho marines are basically dead... thats if htey are packed tightly.....
i wish NS was like that.. fighting for the third hive... but it jus seems like the only way marines can play is by taking both hives or early phase gate rush.. cuz when ur rushing for the two hives.. most resources go to taht.. and if that fails ur bascilaly kinda screwd cuz COs dont allocate enuff resources into researching but more into rushing to the two hives...
i never see enuff resources for marines to be able to take down fades..
and for all of u who say "LMG RUSH THEM"
yes i do that.. but if its 3 fades.... if each shoot 1 or 2 acid rockets ur squad of 3 or 4 gung ho marines are basically dead... thats if htey are packed tightly.....
i wish NS was like that.. fighting for the third hive... but it jus seems like the only way marines can play is by taking both hives or early phase gate rush.. cuz when ur rushing for the two hives.. most resources go to taht.. and if that fails ur bascilaly kinda screwd cuz COs dont allocate enuff resources into researching but more into rushing to the two hives...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your basic unupgraded marine will die vs 2 fades, surely as the sun rises every day.
The trick is, usuallly the commander has other priorities, so at the point the fades appears his gamble is lost.
If the commander
1) Invested in early motion tracking
2) Secured 1 hive good with a PG and turrets - the lot
3) made sure to send guys out on res capping
4) And then send his hive securing team out to deny aliens THEIR resources
You would see that fades will take longer to appear. Even if the aliens get their 2nd hive, they will not have the same mad income from having most map nodes capped. Why? They usually can have a gorge walk around the map capping nodes in relative safety coz the marines are hellbent on getting hives, ignoring the more mundane areas of the maps.
If marines played a different game, making sure to get their share of ressources, income would slow for the kharaa and thus slowing the pace of which fades appear in the game.
On Nothing, I managed to hold 2 res nozzles (near generator room) all by myself like 7 minutes. Skulks came pitter-pattering in 1 by 1, and due to Motion Tracking (PRAIIIIIIIIIIISE the TECH) I saw them early and had my gun aimed at them even before they spotted me. I got 3 of them before they wisened up and two-skulked me.
I did this on command, and when I died after those 7 minutes my commander said "Good job, forget about them we're now pushing for 2nd hive".
Ie. he got 7 full minutes of res ticks x 2 to his pool and could then afford us a decent fortification of hive #1 - the hive assault team did this while I was out capping nozzles with a chum.
He also got us 2 upgrades for our armor and weapon.
While I spent time defending the nozzles, the hive team was busy taking down unguarded alien nozzles, dying a bit etc.
It meant that when we proceeded to Assault Hive 2 phase, we met only lerks and skulks, and very late in the assault, one fade that didnt have much of a chance vs 6 marines. He fled tho, so we got the 2nd hive. But we didnt manage to lock it down, because the aliens fought us for it, took out our PG and sent our entire effort backwards some. But we perservered.
At this point we had gotten another upgrade and I believe JPs had entered the game as well. I dont use them so I cant remember well. The focus was put on assaulting their old hive, since it was closer to base than the recently contested one. We managed to siege it but had to deal with 2 fades that died to our mighty lmg marines (they had upgrades).
We won the game.
I think we build merely 3 TF's totally.
AT fist, not one was in our base, all res was spent on capping nozzles and securing a hive for us. <b>This is very important, children</b>. Burning all marine res on base defense at start can cripple your initiative badly. The expansion in their hive got turrets though. Wouldn't want that little PG to disappear so we couldnt defend. Commander never bothered to put up TF's to guard nozzles, he relied on his grunts to do it for him. And since we had motion tracking we had a living chance to do it.
The 2nd tf went up in base at some point, so that we could build some turrets and be prepared to siege gun if a moronic gorge found it fun to spam chambers outside.
3rd tf went up late, near their original hive to take it down with a siege.
I dont remember if we got hmgs or shotties at some point.
I just wish we had used mines to guard the base. It would have meant even more superiority in the start phase.
Also the same thing hardly ever happens because of the big maps and all the diff ways u can go about attacking.
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And yes, this happened in a bunch of 1.04 games too.
The only times I've seen a game with a slower pace was when a Gorge built sensory chambers before movement (when the second hive was constructed), thus severely limiting the Fades.
As for "don't rush, try different tactics" - this only works if you're the commander. If you're not, you're expected to follow your commander's orders, and if he tells you and your teammates to rush the hive.. what are you going to do, disobey orders? Obviously your commander is rush-oriented and that is how he plans to win the game, and your difference of opinion will probably wind up costing everyone else a victory.
You nailed it.
Two very easy possible solutions:
1. defend your base: If you did not make big mistakes by the time aliens get fades you should have good defense and/or good equipment which should really not make it to hard to defend a base.
2. use the same tactic yourself: Invent ha/hmg and just kill their hives.
With 1.04 the two hive situation (means aliens captured one hive, holding two now and marines caputred one hive, holding one and base now) is pretty balanced. So if you are having problems you should rather blame yourself than blame the game.
They have a couple nice ones. With a couple guys from the IRC room on Nano-Grid, we tried the Flex strategy and it was fun. The guy that was the Flex got to go gorge hunting and be like a secret agent, hehe. Try different strats, don't just stick to the ones that you think will work.
NS repetittive.... ha almost every multiplayer FPS is repetitive... I said almost (CS definitely <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
i must know every little spec of dust as i walked over it a thousand times maybe more.
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