Ok, either a mod please lock this thread or at least have the decency to stop posting on it after it has already been beaten with a stick many many many many times. Did i say many times?
The thing is, any organized team can take care of fades, heck, just today i saw someone kill <b>3</b> Yes, 3 fades by himself with a HMG. Bad fades? Hardly, they were a good well known clan who we play regularly, and is respected by the comunity. All we had to do was tech up by grabbing nodes accross the map, we secured some resource points and choke points in the map, we secured one hive and let them take the other two. They got around 6 fades running across the map, which we killed off one by one, and then three in a row in the reactor room (btw, map was ns_tanith). Then, we went for the 2nd hive, and killed it, WITH our "stupid" tech up strategy. Then, we secured the room with a siege, and headed off to the next hive. As you may assume, the game was over since skulks are no match against siege bases and marines with HA and HMG in a tight organized group.
Not to mention the server was in tournament mode, which is really a hassle for marines with heavy weapons.
Fades are too strong? Maybe for some people, but they are meant to be that way. Would you want to die as a HA with 1 skulk bite after spending 80 rps or so to get equipped? No? Didn't think so.
Grenades are the best answer to Fades in my book, short of the HA/HE combo. You can give them to light marines who can then bounce the l'il suckers around corners while staying out of the acid rocket barrages. They can be tricky weapons to use effectively, though, and if you're buying time against Fades with them, you'd best have heavy armor right around the corner.
I'm tired of debating this as most people are such suckups to the devs that they're afraid to admit there might be an actual problem with the game (and trust me, I love the devs and NS in general, but a problem's a problem).
Suffice to say, if you don't believe there's a problems with aliens being too powerful, go watch any public server. Aliens will win 2 times out of 3, if not more. When the marines do win, it's almost always because of siege abuse.
But that's fine, people will get my point soon enough. There's a big round of marine nerfing in 1.04 (as if they needed anything but a siege tweak done to them), so things are only going to get worse from here.
Anyways, at the least, I really propose the commander not count towards team auto-balancing. I think this would really be a nice little thing to add. If anyone can come up with a reason why it shouldn't be added, I'll be amazed, as it's a small but good fix, and would take approximately three seconds to program.
<!--QuoteBegin--Amante+Jan 6 2003, 02:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Amante @ Jan 6 2003, 02:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->there might be an actual problem with the game (and trust me, I love the devs and NS in general, but a problem's a problem).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're way behind. Get your facts straight, mate. Flayra has posted that he agrees on tactics are growing a bit stale right now. And that is meaning that he knows there is a balance problem that only meticulous playing by 1000s of fans have uncovered. So don't worry. The mod is 2 months old, 1.04 is soon here and 1.1 is planned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But that's fine, people will get my point soon enough. There's a big round of marine nerfing in 1.04 (as if they needed anything but a siege tweak done to them), so things are only going to get worse from here. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you read the latest change to 1.04? Marines are no longer nerfed, certain aspects of marine game is, such as pulling off a phase gate rush. It's now costlier and riskier due to weaker phasegates and IP's are also costing 7 more. Fades have been powered down. But! Siege guns are no more fire-and-forget setups. You have to man them somehow, and that's cool IMO.
But Nades are back to have FUN! More damage! Upgrades work on them too. Arms lab is cheaper. Motion tracking bug on linux server is fixed, so more games with that working. Shotties cost only 16 now. Armories give out ammo even when upgrading. More HP for ATF. There's plenty of goodness in that patch. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, at the least, I really propose the commander not count towards team auto-balancing. I think this would really be a nice little thing to add. If anyone can come up with a reason why it shouldn't be added, I'll be amazed, as it's a small but good fix, and would take approximately three seconds to program.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well he should! I mean he spawns ammo and health from the sky! He can build anywhere on the map he wants to. He has The Big Picture. Yes he should count towards balance. Also he can go out on the ground and play marine in a pinch, such as when skulks overrun the base. What is more a problem is that on small scale games, aliens always own the marines. They can hardly grasp enough res in competition with the aliens, and it's hurting them.
I think that this game could be modeled a bit better- i was part of this one game where the aliens got 2 hives and the marines somehow got a heck of alot of resources, this resulted in huge battles between handfulls of rocket throwing fades and marines decked out with welders, hmgs, and ha. The marines traveled in groups of 5-6 constantly welding each other while firing on the fades and - eh - trying to build a sc. both groups spent alot of time doing little to each other, mainly since our efficient welder medics and their use of regeneration and that cloud thing that supposedly blocks bullets that lerks use. Anyway it was probably what i considered a model game since the aliens had 2 hives, we had 1 and both teams were about equally decked out. Aliens eventually lost mainly due to the marines constant coordinated assault. i think that the game should be taylored so that marines usually get hmgs about the time aliens get 2 hives so that fades meet hmgs - not a bunch of lmgs which in my experience any fade player who knows how to use rockets can turn any lmg user into snacks.
The problem i see with ur opinion move is that most of us DO try to run out kamikazi and kill it, only to result in a pile of dead <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> . And I normally travel in a group of 2-3 to killl and we still both die due to that accursed slash damage. I mean, its no the rocket that kills the marines, its the splash damage that does.
It hardly requiers any skill for a newbie to kill 10 marines for it.
Comments
The thing is, any organized team can take care of fades, heck, just today i saw someone kill <b>3</b> Yes, 3 fades by himself with a HMG. Bad fades? Hardly, they were a good well known clan who we play regularly, and is respected by the comunity. All we had to do was tech up by grabbing nodes accross the map, we secured some resource points and choke points in the map, we secured one hive and let them take the other two. They got around 6 fades running across the map, which we killed off one by one, and then three in a row in the reactor room (btw, map was ns_tanith). Then, we went for the 2nd hive, and killed it, WITH our "stupid" tech up strategy. Then, we secured the room with a siege, and headed off to the next hive. As you may assume, the game was over since skulks are no match against siege bases and marines with HA and HMG in a tight organized group.
Not to mention the server was in tournament mode, which is really a hassle for marines with heavy weapons.
Fades are too strong? Maybe for some people, but they are meant to be that way. Would you want to die as a HA with 1 skulk bite after spending 80 rps or so to get equipped? No? Didn't think so.
Suffice to say, if you don't believe there's a problems with aliens being too powerful, go watch any public server. Aliens will win 2 times out of 3, if not more. When the marines do win, it's almost always because of siege abuse.
But that's fine, people will get my point soon enough. There's a big round of marine nerfing in 1.04 (as if they needed anything but a siege tweak done to them), so things are only going to get worse from here.
Anyways, at the least, I really propose the commander not count towards team auto-balancing. I think this would really be a nice little thing to add. If anyone can come up with a reason why it shouldn't be added, I'll be amazed, as it's a small but good fix, and would take approximately three seconds to program.
You're way behind. Get your facts straight, mate. Flayra has posted that he agrees on tactics are growing a bit stale right now. And that is meaning that he knows there is a balance problem that only meticulous playing by 1000s of fans have uncovered. So don't worry. The mod is 2 months old, 1.04 is soon here and 1.1 is planned.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But that's fine, people will get my point soon enough. There's a big round of marine nerfing in 1.04 (as if they needed anything but a siege tweak done to them), so things are only going to get worse from here. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you read the latest change to 1.04? Marines are no longer nerfed, certain aspects of marine game is, such as pulling off a phase gate rush. It's now costlier and riskier due to weaker phasegates and IP's are also costing 7 more. Fades have been powered down. But! Siege guns are no more fire-and-forget setups. You have to man them somehow, and that's cool IMO.
But Nades are back to have FUN! More damage! Upgrades work on them too. Arms lab is cheaper. Motion tracking bug on linux server is fixed, so more games with that working. Shotties cost only 16 now. Armories give out ammo even when upgrading. More HP for ATF. There's plenty of goodness in that patch.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, at the least, I really propose the commander not count towards team auto-balancing. I think this would really be a nice little thing to add. If anyone can come up with a reason why it shouldn't be added, I'll be amazed, as it's a small but good fix, and would take approximately three seconds to program.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well he should! I mean he spawns ammo and health from the sky! He can build anywhere on the map he wants to. He has The Big Picture. Yes he should count towards balance. Also he can go out on the ground and play marine in a pinch, such as when skulks overrun the base.
What is more a problem is that on small scale games, aliens always own the marines. They can hardly grasp enough res in competition with the aliens, and it's hurting them.
standart marines are best against fades, if they attack them constantly.
fades are fine as they are and CAN be beaten, but not by sitting duck, who are afraid to die.
It hardly requiers any skill for a newbie to kill 10 marines for it.