Defence Chambers: Hurry Up!
Error404
Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9353Members
Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9353Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Don't bother with Offense Chambers</div> I was playing on a public server the other day, and I noticed that it was already late-early game and we hadn't even had any defence chambers built yet. I noticed that we had lots of offence chambers in the empty hives, so I asked the gorge why we didn't have defence yet, and whoever was gorge said to me (as if I was stupid or something), 'saving up resource points for a new hive'.
Meanwhile, marines were attempting to rush the first hive. Because nobody had any carapace, we were dropping left right and centre. The spawn times were incredibly slow, and at any one time there were probably 4/12 skulks defending.
The marines were running past the few offense chambers that were around and began shooting down our hive with LMGs.
So put up 3 Defence Chambers please and fast!
Meanwhile, marines were attempting to rush the first hive. Because nobody had any carapace, we were dropping left right and centre. The spawn times were incredibly slow, and at any one time there were probably 4/12 skulks defending.
The marines were running past the few offense chambers that were around and began shooting down our hive with LMGs.
So put up 3 Defence Chambers please and fast!
Comments
I usually go for 3 RT's, *then* 2 DC's (under the hive I will build next, or our main hive if it has been attacked). I don't build a single OC until second hive is well on its' way. 2 DC's is enough, since the change between lvl2 and lvl3 carapace is minimal for Skulks, so I'd rather get the second hive up 40 seconds earlier. If the skulks are really getting their butts kicked I may build a DC earlier.
Oh, and why are the silly gorgs still putting OC's out in the open (and spread out)? Use them to block doorways or put them around corners where the marines will have to pass them by CLOSE, they suck at range.
Oh, and why are the silly gorgs still putting OC's out in the open (and spread out)? Use them to block doorways or put them around corners where the marines will have to pass them by CLOSE, they suck at range.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd suggest that it is safer to invest in some defenses at strategic chokepoints before 2nd hive is built .. or you will never build it if you meet good marines.
As to why you place single OC's in open spaces - they deny the marines the ability to sneak-build their sieges, as they will have to kill the OC to build anything in its sight .. which gives you warning.
They are not intended to kill.
You don't need offense chambers with a decent skulk screen, and silence is a whole lot more useful than carapace.
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My prefered strategy is 2-3 resource nodes, then defense chambers then hive, though I can see why defence chambers shouldn't be needed (if you take damage charge into someone and die to get your free health topup) but on public servers where aliens don't tend to work as teams a defence chamber can help a good skulk stay alive long enough to cause merry mayhem and on puclib servers you really do ely upon the good players.
I've usually found that in a game with good players, the marine team will early on attempt to take 2 hives as soon as possible. Initially, skulks will stop the first few rushes, but the slower spawn rate will eventually make it difficult for all the skulks to slow the marines down <b>and</b> cover the initial hive <b>and</b> the building hive at the same time.
The only way to stop the marines from taking two hives early on in the game, is to get defence chambers up so skulks can upgrade to carapace and last longer, putting less stress on spawn times. This also makes sense as a good commander finding his team is unsuccessful will begin to upgrade weapons or armor, making it even harder for an un-upgraded skulk to go against more than 2 marines.
<u>A Typical In-Game Convo</u>
Skulks: Where are those defence chambers gorge?
Gorge: I'm saving up for the second hive, send a few skulks over here to help me guard.
<i>A while later...</i>
Gorge: I've just built the second hive, marines are approaching! hive isn't ready yet!!
Skulks: Marines are outside our first hive!
Gorge: Get some guys to the second hive quick, the marines killed all the skulks guarding it.
Skulks: We're in the spawn queue.
Gorge: FFS get over here.
Skulks: Theres too many of them, we're dropping like flies.
Gorge: I'll start building defence chambers.
Skulks: Too late dude, we've lost.
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This little moaning happened to me today, ns_eclipse, others went to rush so i thought to evolve into gorge, and build 3 defense towers under the hive..
then i was being flamed by my entire team, ahh..the *heat* was over the scale. If i have misunderstood the whole thing, correct me but i think 3 DC are good thing to build first, then OCs. MCs are vital too. Some people only build 1 or two but wouldnt the upgrade effects be more stronger if you have built 3 of them?..thats how i have always understood the whole upgrade system.
Most wanted list:
-----------------------
2nd hive goes up: people start to scream for DC
3rd hive goes up: MCs are extemely hot within aliens :]
Sensory chambers are very rarely asked for..if ever.
But what if we had build DC -chambers in the beginning, wouldnt that be great?.
+ skulks can get carapace which increases their chances of winning vs 1+ marines massively
+ the skulks can heal quicker [it doesn't really matter where the DCs are]
+ you get components for a wall-of-lame, or healing for the hive etc.
+ skulks live longer, reducing the crippling effect of the respawn queue on larger servers
- you spend resources that could be spent getting RTs to increase future resource income
- skulks spend resources, and it takes them longer to max out
- skulks are 'dead' for shorter periods of time, taking more resources from the pool
IMHO, vs good marines on large servers, the DCs should be considered the foundation to build the second hive upon...
- if you do not have those chambers, then you will not be building the hive.
Saying they could be used as defense is pointless, as marines just kill them in small numbers, or just run by them. You do not have enough res to cover all the chokepoints, so why bother wasting res by trying to patch it?
Initially, dumb gorge builds one OC, where he is going to put in a RT.
Marine shows up. Gorge tries to hide behind OC. Marine jumps it and kills the gorge in less than a full clip of lmg. The marine backs off into a corner and kills the OC. Complete waste of money by the aliens...
Smart gorge builds a DC instead.
Marine shows up, gorge dances all around the def chamber, all the while shooting the marine. If the marine is smart, he will go for the def chamber first, but even then, the gorge has a much higher chance of winning versus that marine than if he had an OC.
First one..
<b>Gorges who say 'Can't spend resources on building Defence Chambers, mUst save for Hive!'.</b>
REPLY: <b>ITS YOUR JOB</b> TO GET THE RESOURCES, STOP MESSING AROUND AND CAP THOSE RESOURCE NODES!
I often think theres some confusion, when the whole team say to the gorge, 'Get those Defences up', and the gorge starts wasting resources by building Offence Chambers.
Marine shows up, gorge dances all around the def chamber, all the while shooting the marine. If the marine is smart, he will go for the def chamber first, but even then, the gorge has a much higher chance of winning versus that marine than if he had an OC.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good Advice, all gorges should read this <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just came off a game of nancy...
Marines rushed and took subspace before we could stop them.
I went gorge and went down to the crew locker area RT.
The rest of our team did not notice the marine or two that snuck into our hive and built some turrets.
By then I had 3 def chambers down at the RT, and the hive went down.
The marines spread out to look for me, and one finally found me.
-1 marine.
They rushed in twos and threes, but they could not kill me faster than my def towers could heal me.
Eventually, one or two had the grand idea of attacking the def chambers. I finally lost one, but the hive went online at unnamed hive, and skulks started gushing out.
We eventually won the map.
If I had chosen anything BUT carapace, we would have lost.
Regen is useless for a gorge, and redemption is too faulty to work well.
One time a gorge tried to pull that on my marine team.
I ran up and started knifing the DCs, while the comm spammed health.
That is the only way to beat def towered gorges, unless you have backup... :/
Make 2 movements first..
+they need motion tracking to find you if you choose silence, as they sure wont hear you.
+ celerety makes you a very hard target to hit if you dont just run right at marines.
It honestly depends on the map, on hera, you wanna make a offensive tower in processing right off, as if the marines rush in there, your skulks will get owned if the marines are anything close to decent shots.. The marines will either see or hear you coming long before you get to them, give them something else to worry about (the o-tower)..
I realize imagination is hard to find in online games, but this is similar to a hvy metal start in SC, back in 1.04 or 1.05, people laughed at making mech only, until people saw it work in games, then they loved it, same works here. There is a certain alien counter to each marine opening, once people start to understand that, they understand the game is fairly balanced now..
At least you do not shoot yourself in the foot like you do with sensory.
Carapace is much better at taking down marine outposts, especially processing. Who cares if they can hear you? You will be dead anyway if you go silence, but the more damage you can take when you jump out of that vent, the better off you are.
cloaking is not useless, you just need to be patient and wait for them to come to you to use cloaking correctly as a skulk.
edit: celerety isnt useless, you move 2 or 3x faster, use that to your advantage..
Celerity IS uselss. The TINY amount of speed that you move faster with does not help.
BTW Fades with celerity will own you get something like 60-75% speed of an unupgraded skulk with a fade ... and them calwz own 80 dmg <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ive rushed 3 marines once ... 2 normal and one heave but with nades ... i killed the 2 marines and ran away WITH 110 HP then healed and killed nadeboy ... I was going zig-zag btw ...
The skulk, more than anything, is a scout. If you are the gorge, you should be asking the skulks constant questions about what the marines are doing, where they are moving, you should be reminding your skulks to parasite everyone, it is more usful to have a marine parasited than to kill him in most cases. As the gorge, you are responsible for getting your team's upgrades. You are not there to build offence chaimbers all over the map, your first priority should always be on the teams upgrades.
If your team is doing a good job at keeping the marines at bay, keeping them distracted and away from your spawn hive and where you are expanding to, then there is obveously no reason to get any upgrade towers at this point. Keep getting new resource nodes, and get that second hive up. If the marines are rushing the spawn hive, or are proving too difficult to keep contained in a single area, it is time to give those skulks a fighting chance, defence chaimbers so they can take more damage, or movement chaimbers so they can be more sneaky (don't do this in a pub game unless it is okay with most of the players, if you get them movement first and they don't know how to use it right, it will be a waste.)
There is no reason to build offence chaimbers before the second hive is being built and there are 3 of your chosen upgrade chaimbers built. If a gorge has built offence chaimbers before this point, they are either inexperianced, or are selfish and not working as a team player.
Sure, it slows down hive production, but I count on skulks to save my pudgy butt. They give me resources and don't go gorge, I give them what they ask for.
And then you get sliced by the single marine with a tiny bit of aim.
Celerity sucks. Nuff said.
Maybe if it actually made marines miss the skulk, it MIGHT be useful, but at the moment... No...