Hmm, can't be bothered reading the whole thread, but this is in response to the first post.
*I use a smaller, less-obstructing muzzle flash. Not because it helps me see, but because it looks better. *I use a dark marine model, that's very difficult to see in dark places. Why would I make the game harder? <i>Because it looks better</i>.
Sure, some muppets will change things to give themselves an unfair advantage. It's been happening since whenever people started playing games like this online - it's something you just have to accept and move on from. I know an awful lot more people who'd want the game to look as good as possible to them than people who'd fluff about with everything to make the game look terrible, but easy to play.
It's just the way of things. Like idiots will always find a way around whatever anti-cheat systems people make. There's nothing we can do about it, except for accepting it and enjoying the game anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--Acheron+Dec 14 2002, 10:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acheron @ Dec 14 2002, 10:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Speaking of morons, how about those people who play on public servers yet feel honour-bound to start gigantic, paranoid witch-hunts for "cheaters". I bet these inquisitions are caused by the conflict between someone's self-righteous sense of superiority and their lack of actual gaming skill.
Er, um, I mean... uh...
<b>CUSTOM MODELS ARE TEH H4X!!!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sooooo true.
mp_consistency 1 is a fine solution...it's the same as running any mandatory anti-cheat software on your server. People who don't like it won't play there.
To be frank, all the whining people have been doing abuot custom models is NS's equivalent to the constant whining people do about cfg whoring in CS and DoD.
Also, it's been said many times in the various threads about custom models, but using new models is what keeps games like CS and DoD fresh and interesting - most NS players will tire of the default models at some point - on that I'll bet good money.
(edited because it's bad as a noun but not as a verb)
I never registered. If I did it would've been this name. This is my name for all HL mods, except for FA and CS. I don't like Firearms that much really. It's fun when I need a break from TFC or NS though. CS is just for TKing people when you're bored. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
NS is deliberately meant to be a much more "tight" environment than CS or DoD though...most scripting is disabled, file consistency is enforced, soon some of the other console commands will be disabled...this is all to push Flayra's (and the rest of the team) idea of how the game SHOULD be played.
It SHOULD look like this, you SHOULD have these drawbacks, you SHOULDN'T be allowed to do this, or that...etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--Catgirl+Dec 14 2002, 07:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Catgirl @ Dec 14 2002, 07:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->mp_consistency 1 is a fine solution...it's the same as running any mandatory anti-cheat software on your server. People who don't like it won't play there.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, what she sed.
Aye Catgirl, but that won't stop people thinking "Well <i>this</i> model would look better if it was a bit bulkier" or whatever. And as if by magic, the HL engine is versatile and easy to make new models for to suit individuals' preferences.
If by magic...it's just as easy and versatile to make those models bright pink or have large spikes shooting out every-which-way. Which comes back to the idea of mp_consistency 1.
Unless these so-called cheat spiked bright colored blah blah models were released, I doubt many people would be using because of the lack of ability to it themselves.
Edit: For educational purposes, I went ahead and made something resembling what we were talking about. (It looked different before the crappy jpeg compression)
This is exactly the kind of thing we have to avoid, and the entire point of my thread. How difficult is this to see in the game environment? This kind of thing can ruin a mod. Great job visualizing this ctx.
That would be reeeeeaaaalllll strange playing with a bunch of bright pinkish-purple Marines running around. I dont think my eyes could handle it. If I were to cheat I would prolly have to use a flourescent green instead of the pink-purple.
It's hard to point at a class of modifications and make a generalization of how something is or is not a cheat. My CS models run around as the Halo guy with colorized (not cheap bright) skins, for instance. I tinkered to colorize them and they know how blinking lights! (not true light sources, just tiny localized skin color changes that only happen when they're already moving.) (I haven't tried applying it to NS yet.)
Things I have personally changed:
Some ambience files, the ambience in the Nothing Power Silo hive hurts my ears and I don't want to have to go to console to change volume every time!
Hivesight sprites, attempting to make them more transparent and less distracting for when they do get in the way.
Minimap contrasts, because they tend to be all white even on the most default NS gamma settings.
Ye olde Crosshaire.
I think it would be useful if the NS team set it so that mp_consistency would ignore certain files, such as crosshairs or hard-to-abuse things such as the hivesight or hud sprites.
cam_idea*** 3 ( i put *** because im not sure if posting a command thats like cheating is allowed on these forums) Should be removed as well. I was on a pub where this guy was "bragging" how he was better than most because he used this command and other commands that gave him advatadges over others. cam_idea*** 3 ( not sure how the command its spelled ) is a command that allows for 3rd person shooting, you can see yourself from the back, and of course you can see when someone is sneaking up behind you, which makes you turn around faster and respond quicker to an enemy attack. Also how about enforcing " r_drawview***** 0" ( im sure experienced players know the real command behind the ***) into the game. What this command does is, it removes your weapon, so all you see is your crosshair. This is a HUGE advantadge to skulks, because when they bite they can lose sight of their prey in front of me, especially when they are right in front of them, but with this command set at " 0 " they are able to track every of their movement and being able to kill easier than they should. Ive played on 1 server that has this disabled, or enforces for it to be at " 1 " which is very nice in my opinion. I think customized crosshairs should be allowed, customized skins too, but they should have a guideline of "color settings" shouldnt have certain colors, nor their brightness exceed a certain limit. PS: the game is soooo new and people already are wanting to change it!! this amazes me actually, I still love these default models.
<!--QuoteBegin--|SemperFi|+Dec 14 2002, 07:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|SemperFi| @ Dec 14 2002, 07:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Crosshairs are really more of a preferance. I dont consider changing crosshairs to be any type of exploit, infact i would like to aquire those ones can you give me some linkage?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone not having the exact same models is very unbalanced?
Hah! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think what my friend is trying to say here is that you can have different models they just shouldnt have a certain advantage over another. Which is also my humble opinion.
In other words, having models with big targets on the front and 20 foot spikes sticking out shouldnt be used, but ones that are basically the same shape and not too much brigter than the defualt ones are ok.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's the same argument though. You're changing something to give yoruself an advantage.
I'd prefer NS with an even playing field and less customization, myself. Custom skins, models, and sounds? All too easily exploited (Imagine a bright-red marine whose model is hitbox only and whose footsteps are a booming 'Marine, marine, marine'). I think that certain sprites should be left open, like crosshairs and hivesight, while others should be locked, like muzzle flashes.
<!--QuoteBegin--MMZ>Torak+Dec 14 2002, 06:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Dec 14 2002, 06:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I agree, a person who thinks muzzle flashes are 20th century is a moron; but so is a person who tries to apply "realism" to a video game. It's a game people. Everything has a reason. I am sure that the Dev Team had "realism" in mind with their alien bug hunt mod.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Listen douche.... I GAVE SOLUTIONS to the problem. You on the other hand just called me a moron for giving ideas that would improve the game, and make many people much happier.
I pointed out the problem, I gave solutions. The only other thing I could do is be on the dev team, which I am not.
<b>WHAT more could I do</b>?
This is a very good realism mod, compared to anythign else execpt for those SLOW games like BattleField and such. Everything the marines have would suggest that there would be no muzzle flash to obscure the view. I'd rather have CS type aiming than this huge thing blocking my view. I play at 1280x1024, with a radeon, and I've read that the flash gets bigger with increasing resoultion. I SERIOUSLY doubt any one person on the dev team has had their rigs set up like mine, otherwise they would rethink the flash as I have.
Please don't flame by calling me a moron. I think its quite obvious i'm not one, but either way, only those that will think about it will understand. Lots of people are excited by screaming CHEATER CHEATER, so your childish way of approaching this particular situation is evident.
This is supposed to be a future mod. Muzzle Flashes have no place in a game where teleporters exist. Bottom line.
So the dev team has 3 options
Make minus muzzle flash an upgrade Take it out all together Have the server check it.
As far as I know, HL servers are not set up to check sprites, so there is nothing they can do about it. And since people are going to do this anyways, it would only make it a fair ball park to get rid of them completely.
I'd like to see it made a server cvar to enforce .PAK integrity or not. That way, people who like to mod their game for whatever reason can do so and people like me who don't especially trust a whole lot of mods out there can play on servers where we can have a little more trust in the evenness of the playing field.
...Why does muzzle flash have no place in a game where teleporters exist? Muzzle flash is just a side-effect of using any weapon with chemical propulsion. Sure, if everyone was using lasers and the like then there'd be no need for a muzzle flash... (unless you're playing The 6th Day, the video game...god that was a bad movie) ...but they're using chemical-propelled weapons. And those have muzzle flashes. That flame needs to escape the gun SOMEWHERE. It can't just "disappear".
As for the muzzle flash scaling with size...uh...it scales equally with resolution. So it takes up the same space at 1280x1024 as it did at 640x480...which is more pixels, but the exact same amount of area of screen size.
<!--QuoteBegin--JackBoCracken+Dec 14 2002, 09:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JackBoCracken @ Dec 14 2002, 09:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's the same argument though. You're changing something to give yoruself an advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Note where i said preference, as in i just like the way they look. Ive recently switched my crosshairs and its not helping me aim any better at all. I just didnt like the ugmo yellow, observer crosshairs.
yea and modifying ns skins for a beta looking wep is not exactly a cheat either but i can understand people do **obscenity** to help them see things in the dark aswell... why has most servers av that consistency thing... but some people just want to stuff on beta looking thingies which they fink look good and beta sounds but there are alawys twats who wil not understand how making the game brighter is cheating etc etc
btw if someone said this its coz i cant be arsed 2 read the full post
Dearest smokeygreen, There is one option that you have neglected to notice. How about the dev team leaves muzzle flash in and forces file consistancy. Wouldn't that be a little peepee party on your realism picnic. Laughing Out Loud, Realism Mod. Rolling On The Floor Laughing My **obscenity** Off.
smokey_green, could you tell me the lottery numbers for next week, since you obviously know what the future is going to be like <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--|SemperFi|+Dec 15 2002, 05:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|SemperFi| @ Dec 15 2002, 05:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--JackBoCracken+Dec 14 2002, 09:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JackBoCracken @ Dec 14 2002, 09:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's the same argument though. You're changing something to give yoruself an advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Note where i said preference, as in i just like the way they look. Ive recently switched my crosshairs and its not helping me aim any better at all. I just didnt like the ugmo yellow, observer crosshairs.
On a side note has anyone made Alien crosshairs?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But you can't see the default HL crosshairs nearly as well as you can see his new ones.
Comments
*I use a smaller, less-obstructing muzzle flash. Not because it helps me see, but because it looks better.
*I use a dark marine model, that's very difficult to see in dark places. Why would I make the game harder? <i>Because it looks better</i>.
Sure, some muppets will change things to give themselves an unfair advantage. It's been happening since whenever people started playing games like this online - it's something you just have to accept and move on from. I know an awful lot more people who'd want the game to look as good as possible to them than people who'd fluff about with everything to make the game look terrible, but easy to play.
It's just the way of things. Like idiots will always find a way around whatever anti-cheat systems people make. There's nothing we can do about it, except for accepting it and enjoying the game anyway.
Er, um, I mean... uh...
<b>CUSTOM MODELS ARE TEH H4X!!!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sooooo true.
Also, it's been said many times in the various threads about custom models, but using new models is what keeps games like CS and DoD fresh and interesting - most NS players will tire of the default models at some point - on that I'll bet good money.
(edited because it's bad as a noun but not as a verb)
It SHOULD look like this, you SHOULD have these drawbacks, you SHOULDN'T be allowed to do this, or that...etc.
Yea, what she sed.
Edit: For educational purposes, I went ahead and made something resembling what we were talking about. (It looked different before the crappy jpeg compression)
<img src='http://www.pcxweb.netfirms.com/cheatmodel.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
This is exactly the kind of thing we have to avoid, and the entire point of my thread. How difficult is this to see in the game environment? This kind of thing can ruin a mod. Great job visualizing this ctx.
That would be reeeeeaaaalllll strange playing with a bunch of bright pinkish-purple Marines running around. I dont think my eyes could handle it. If I were to cheat I would prolly have to use a flourescent green instead of the pink-purple.
Things I have personally changed:
Some ambience files, the ambience in the Nothing Power Silo hive hurts my ears and I don't want to have to go to console to change volume every time!
Hivesight sprites, attempting to make them more transparent and less distracting for when they do get in the way.
Minimap contrasts, because they tend to be all white even on the most default NS gamma settings.
Ye olde Crosshaire.
I think it would be useful if the NS team set it so that mp_consistency would ignore certain files, such as crosshairs or hard-to-abuse things such as the hivesight or hud sprites.
I think customized crosshairs should be allowed, customized skins too, but they should have a guideline of "color settings" shouldnt have certain colors, nor their brightness exceed a certain limit.
PS: the game is soooo new and people already are wanting to change it!! this amazes me actually, I still love these default models.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone not having the exact same models is very unbalanced?
Hah! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think what my friend is trying to say here is that you can have different models they just shouldnt have a certain advantage over another. Which is also my humble opinion.
In other words, having models with big targets on the front and 20 foot spikes sticking out shouldnt be used, but ones that are basically the same shape and not too much brigter than the defualt ones are ok.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the same argument though. You're changing something to give yoruself an advantage.
Listen douche.... I GAVE SOLUTIONS to the problem. You on the other hand just called me a moron for giving ideas that would improve the game, and make many people much happier.
I pointed out the problem, I gave solutions. The only other thing I could do is be on the dev team, which I am not.
<b>WHAT more could I do</b>?
This is a very good realism mod, compared to anythign else execpt for those SLOW games like BattleField and such. Everything the marines have would suggest that there would be no muzzle flash to obscure the view. I'd rather have CS type aiming than this huge thing blocking my view. I play at 1280x1024, with a radeon, and I've read that the flash gets bigger with increasing resoultion. I SERIOUSLY doubt any one person on the dev team has had their rigs set up like mine, otherwise they would rethink the flash as I have.
Please don't flame by calling me a moron. I think its quite obvious i'm not one, but either way, only those that will think about it will understand. Lots of people are excited by screaming CHEATER CHEATER, so your childish way of approaching this particular situation is evident.
This is supposed to be a future mod. Muzzle Flashes have no place in a game where teleporters exist. Bottom line.
So the dev team has 3 options
Make minus muzzle flash an upgrade
Take it out all together
Have the server check it.
As far as I know, HL servers are not set up to check sprites, so there is nothing they can do about it. And since people are going to do this anyways, it would only make it a fair ball park to get rid of them completely.
As for the muzzle flash scaling with size...uh...it scales equally with resolution. So it takes up the same space at 1280x1024 as it did at 640x480...which is more pixels, but the exact same amount of area of screen size.
Note where i said preference, as in i just like the way they look. Ive recently switched my crosshairs and its not helping me aim any better at all. I just didnt like the ugmo yellow, observer crosshairs.
On a side note has anyone made Alien crosshairs?
why has most servers av that consistency thing... but some people just want to stuff on beta looking thingies which they fink look good and beta sounds but there are alawys twats who wil not understand how making the game brighter is cheating etc etc
btw if someone said this its coz i cant be arsed 2 read the full post
There is one option that you have neglected to notice. How about the dev team leaves muzzle flash in and forces file consistancy. Wouldn't that be a little peepee party on your realism picnic. Laughing Out Loud, Realism Mod. Rolling On The Floor Laughing My **obscenity** Off.
Note where i said preference, as in i just like the way they look. Ive recently switched my crosshairs and its not helping me aim any better at all. I just didnt like the ugmo yellow, observer crosshairs.
On a side note has anyone made Alien crosshairs?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But you can't see the default HL crosshairs nearly as well as you can see his new ones.