Chamber Order?
Zerglin
Join Date: 2002-12-13 Member: 10754Members
Join Date: 2002-12-13 Member: 10754Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Stuff about chamber order</div> Most servers go Defense -> Movement -> Sensory
I agree this is a great order. Defense provides a bit more durability to the skulk and make master biters last longer in battle. Movement is gone up with second hive and makes Fades and Lurks use their special attacks more. The sensory chamber at the end is pointless though. By that time it is onos time and you don't need stealth or any battle information--just pure brute stength.
I think some orders can use some more consideration. I wonder why people look so bad at using sensory chamber first. Defense makes turrets more strong. I think that with certain situations, you will need to call up different chambers everytime. Sensory chamber first is great for early game. I have won two games out of two using sensory first (one were I built it and one where another built it).
Sensory provides the much needed abilities for a skulk. Sensory gives the stealth abilities of the skulk to much higher levels. How fun do you think it is to just stand there and let the marines walk right past you? Sensory first is great when you are getting hive and marines only have secured one hive. Using cloaking skulks can hang around outside of marine base and make sure they do not expand because skulks are completely invisible. Scent of fear is awesome for the much needed info of which target to attack. This is like the micromanagement of a RTS player targeting weaker units first for the best results. Let me tell you that scent of fear allows for just that and it is great. I think people do not like the sensory chamber because the other chambers provide passive abilities while sensory forces you to take full advantage and ultimately changes the way you play as alien for the time sensory is up for the one Hive only. As an added bonus it reveals marines nearby so if you are making a new hive it is great to have one so you know where incoming marines are coming from thus giving you a great advantage. So sensory does indeed act as a supporting defensive structure, but just not in the passive sense.
As of now movement is comepletely useless as a first chamber as its defense purpose can only work with two hives and/or you have expanded quite a bit. Silence is only good along with cloaking making it more viable as a second chamber.
Okay I stop writing because I want to leave room for other opinions and discussion of the chambers. It is easier to use D > M > S because it very well-rounded so I think most of you feel this way and are one of the 1000s of people who whine to me. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree this is a great order. Defense provides a bit more durability to the skulk and make master biters last longer in battle. Movement is gone up with second hive and makes Fades and Lurks use their special attacks more. The sensory chamber at the end is pointless though. By that time it is onos time and you don't need stealth or any battle information--just pure brute stength.
I think some orders can use some more consideration. I wonder why people look so bad at using sensory chamber first. Defense makes turrets more strong. I think that with certain situations, you will need to call up different chambers everytime. Sensory chamber first is great for early game. I have won two games out of two using sensory first (one were I built it and one where another built it).
Sensory provides the much needed abilities for a skulk. Sensory gives the stealth abilities of the skulk to much higher levels. How fun do you think it is to just stand there and let the marines walk right past you? Sensory first is great when you are getting hive and marines only have secured one hive. Using cloaking skulks can hang around outside of marine base and make sure they do not expand because skulks are completely invisible. Scent of fear is awesome for the much needed info of which target to attack. This is like the micromanagement of a RTS player targeting weaker units first for the best results. Let me tell you that scent of fear allows for just that and it is great. I think people do not like the sensory chamber because the other chambers provide passive abilities while sensory forces you to take full advantage and ultimately changes the way you play as alien for the time sensory is up for the one Hive only. As an added bonus it reveals marines nearby so if you are making a new hive it is great to have one so you know where incoming marines are coming from thus giving you a great advantage. So sensory does indeed act as a supporting defensive structure, but just not in the passive sense.
As of now movement is comepletely useless as a first chamber as its defense purpose can only work with two hives and/or you have expanded quite a bit. Silence is only good along with cloaking making it more viable as a second chamber.
Okay I stop writing because I want to leave room for other opinions and discussion of the chambers. It is easier to use D > M > S because it very well-rounded so I think most of you feel this way and are one of the 1000s of people who whine to me. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Movement is a really good first chaimber, though you can't use it's ability to warp, since you only have one hive, the Silence and Celerity upgrades are great for skulks. For the players that like to use stealth, Silence is the best, you can drop down from the ceiling and run after a marine and he wont hear anything until he is dead. I personally haven't used Celerity as a skulk (because I am addicted to silent skulking) but I've read in a few posts about players who dig the extra speed, letting them close the distance between themselfs and their prey faster, and being able to make speedy escapes.
But, this topic has been discussed in a few other threads, and as you are soon probably going to see, most people disagree with anything but D>M>S. I think it is silly to bound yourself to a single tactic, and have found that it truly depends on your team mates, and how they use the abilities you provide them.
Movement first is argueable to defense first. I can see, where against train marines that rely on sound (skulk's footstep) for warning (clanners and crackshot NS players), silence being a great asset. Celerity could be useful in closing distance and dodging bullets, but *shrug* depends on your ability. and adrenaline with a skulk is a waste-against decent marines, you're not gonna be draining your adrenaline until you have leap- BUT could be useful in conjunction with lerks to allow them a stream of spikes for a while, but getting lerks in early game damages your economy really bad.
The reason why DC first is the most popular, logical, and viable way to go is that: you can built them to support your OC at strategic areas, stage a "hostipal" at viable sites (instead of skulks having to run all the way back to the hive risking a sure death in case of encountering a marine on the way), makes skulks more durable-this is a MUST in the fact that spawning for aliens in big games is completely retarded.
For pubs, there's usually not enough good marines on a team to make having silence first viable- and usually aliens NEED carapace because there isn't enough good people on the alien teams also =)
BUT ... for leagues and skirmishes, silence, in theory, could be incredibly useful- BUT HC marines will always do a 360 ever so often and sneaking up on one is kinda hard since all good marines are used to looking overhead when passing through a door and are knowledgeable in all alien hidy spots and will surely check them when they pass.
Sensory is nice in some respects for an early skulk but the defence upgrade really does make things so much more useful, so in 99% of games defence > sensory. Movement shouldn't even get a look in for first choice.
So defence first.
Movement and its adrenaline upgrade are pretty much essential to any attacking fade or lerk. With adrenaline the fade & lerk have a far greater chance of taking down any marine outpost or large group of marines. Without it, they are forced to retreat constantly in order for their energy levels to go up enough to be effective again. Movement towers at the hive are very very useful at this point of the game as marine will be attempting to take down one of your hives and quick movement between them is essential to prevent sieges turrets being built nearby.
Sensory is useful for hiding from and ambushing marines but by the second hive, you're more likely to be forced to attack enemy positions and cloaking just doesn't do squat for an attacking fade/lerk/skulk. You need the energy to get in there and destroy that base before the marines can reinforce/fix it.
So normally movement > sensory in 99% of games.
So movement is second.
By the third hive, the enemy is normally dead and no-one cares if you get a 3rd upgrade or not. Which is a shame as no upgrade should be useless.
The simple fact is that for most situations defence > movement > sensory and that's not going to change unless the code itself is amended. That is why if you're a gorge and you build sensory for that 2nd upgrade because it's "cool" or "neat" then expect to be abused by your team mates who have to suffer the consequences.
besides, skulks lives are cheap, no need to heal. 20% or less of public server games.
if the Kharaa are goofballs/newbs, than defense first since the gorge is gonna have to do part of the defensive work.....and the second hive will be sloooooower. 80% or more of public server games.
i have done sensory first as a test - it is not worth it. adv hive sight does not seem to work, so only cloak and scent of fear do anything. the sensory itself does very, very little besides annoy with "enemy are approaching" all the time, everywhere......
save it for last, and keep them inside a hive or other vital spot where you need an alarm.
At 1 hive:
1) Marines are stronger than aliens. Cloaking helps the necessary ambush strategies that aliens should be employing.
2) When hiding (for an ambush) in a dark room, AHS makes your targets much more visible as well.
3) Aliens will probably often do damage to a marine without killing him. When he drops to 48 health, a single medpack won't bring him to full. Thus, Scent of Fear becomes a practically free Motion Tracking upgrade.
At 2 hives:
1) Battles get much more frantic with Fades entering the fray; a cloaked skulk can do even more damage when the enemy is distracted.
2) Cloaking is also excellent for a lerk providing umbra support.
3) Fades frequently do minimal damage to marines with acid rocket splash damage. Again, Scent of Fear = Motion Tracking. It's alsovery useful for Fades trying to time acid rockets to hit marines coming around corners.
4) Fast-moving lerks and skulks benefit from the improved visibility of AHS, especially when combined with Celerity (yes, I did just suggest Sensory and Movement at 2 hives).
What about your own strategy needs to change if you don't get defense chambers?
1) Gorges need to take an active role in maintaining (healing) structures and aiding front-line players. You will probably need one more gorge than you might with Defense chambers at the 2-hives stage. However, this "liability" is offset by the power of a good offensive gorge using his webs in combat to back up Fades and Lerks.
2) Play smarter - you can't take as much damage, so ambush and evasion become your strategies. Celerity (Adrenaline for a Lerk) and Cloaking, or Scent of Fear to see marines coming, will help you keep the battle on YOUR terms, not theirs. Silence will help you make a stealthy approach.
3) All aliens must take an active role on defense as well as offense. Use movement chambers to jump back to a hive under attack. Intelligent webbing is a must.
That'll do it for me.
Advanced hive sight - useless I can see just fine.
Scent of fear, maybe it has some uses, but decent skulks will be reporting positions of enemy marines they have bitten anyway.
The problem comes at the 2 hive stage, a fade without carapace and adrenaline is pretty rubbish and doesn have time to 'wait for an ambush'. At present every decent alien player knows that sensory is both reduntant and harmful as a first or 2nd hive.
My friend that I just brought into the NS 'fold' has been experimenting with odd strategies like sensory first, etc. Yes, he got flamed for it, but the players actually dealt with it... Of course there was a good thirty seconds or so that was nothing but swearing on teamchat and voice, but they DEALT with it... and being able to adapt is a skill only the highest species on the evolutionary scale can bank on, IE humans, the ones who are playing this game.
The developers made the game this way for a reason, do you think that if it were the best move to do D>M>S EVERY game that they would have given us a choice?
With adrenaline you can fire pretty much constant stream of umbra, or webbing, or leap for about 4+ times, acid rocket tons of times. Without adrenaline those abilities are pretty much nerfed.
Just because you can't play without adrenaline, doesn't mean adrenaline is a requirement. It just means you don't play the same way I do. (I would say that it means you can't play, but that's my opinion, innit?) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
But THIS statement...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sensory is blatantly a joke, cloak is only useful at level 3<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is complete donkey testicles. Even level 1 cloak can often get you overlooked by that HA/HMG who thinks he's all powerful, and in fact, if you're knocked down to 1 hive (cos you're losing at the moment) Sensory is probably the best one to still have, as you're forced into a reactionary role anyway (they're on the offensive) and cloaking skulks in 3's can easily take down HA/HMG's, even if 2 of them are relative noobs.
So, to conclude...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Movement and its adrenaline upgrade are pretty much essential to any attacking fade or lerk. With adrenaline the fade & lerk have a far greater chance of taking down any marine outpost or large group of marines. Without it, they are forced to retreat constantly in order for their energy levels to go up enough to be effective again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you're just using the WRONG WEAPONS. Blink & Claws make mince outta em all.
But seriously, all strategies and such should be discussed during clan fights, during a regular game there's no point in changing the D>M>S theory
Cloaking works great, but you have to stand still.. most aliens run around like they have no head during the whole game, never spending a second standing still.
Silence helps, but once they get motion tracking you're still in a heap of trouble.. as well as your adrenaline'd pals running up next to you *SIGH*
But you're right, there isn't much variety. Most aliens wouldn't be able to handle it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And blink/swipe takes how much energy??? With adrenaline you can claw constant never losing energy, that means you can blink and claw as much as you like then blink away again. The same scenario without adrenaline...... Blink claw claw...."**** im empty", bang bang, dead fade.