Is Alien Resource Exploit Still Here In V1.03?
Demerzel
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9181Members
had a game earlier where the gorges were demanding our team go to the readyroom after a death so their resources would be donated to them. I had thought that this had been fixed in v1.03 however they seemed happy with the results of this ingame which leads me to the conclusion that maybe it hasn't been ( completely ) fixed....
what have everyone else's experience of this been? does it still seem to exist or is it other factors that ( apparently ) boost the teams resource count when someone readyrooms? do they get asked to do it often? I've had it happen several times recently. a lot of people seem to think it's okay especially when it means they can get a second hive up in double quick time but that seems a bit lame indeed to me.
I even had someone justify it with "it says we can do it in the manual so stfu" when I queried it. not found the bit where it says "exploit bugs boys and be proud of it!" but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.
what have everyone else's experience of this been? does it still seem to exist or is it other factors that ( apparently ) boost the teams resource count when someone readyrooms? do they get asked to do it often? I've had it happen several times recently. a lot of people seem to think it's okay especially when it means they can get a second hive up in double quick time but that seems a bit lame indeed to me.
I even had someone justify it with "it says we can do it in the manual so stfu" when I queried it. not found the bit where it says "exploit bugs boys and be proud of it!" but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.
Comments
The changelog tells us that the 1.03 makes you wait in respawn queue once you rejoin the team, meaning this method to concentrate resources is now slightly less convenient.
with regards to the distribution on leaving a team, that's fair enough or some annoying person could join, gain a large number of resources and quit, thereby screwing up the team's chances. However, I feel that when people can use this to get up a second hive quickly without major disadvantages to the one's donating, then it's a bit too "exploit" for me.
If the game took account of how many times you've jumped from team to readyroom and back, and cause the respawn wait to jump by X seconds each time then that'd help stop this pretty quick. If you had to wait 30s to respawn when everyone else does it normally in 10s you'd not be so quick to donate when the gorge demands it.
yeah but if too many leave game autoends... and it only gives back partial points not all of them. and when they are not in the game the marines have an advantage, one less skulk to guard stuff... and so forth.... its really is a bad exploit that should never have been used in the first place
as most skulks just storm off to marine base and get themselves killed time and time again for the first few minutes, I can almost see the point of getting them to "donate" ( not that I condone it tho' ). their point would be that it's better to have a skulk keeping them expanding slow for fear of being ambushed whilst another "donates" resources leading to a double quick hive and fades, than to have two skulks just getting themselves killed repeatedly for no benefit.
It's only when you have 2 or 3 gorges at the start all trying to save up without building res towers or getting themselves killed lots because they don't ask the team where it's safe to go or even worse building lots of o chambers at the start that you start to get problems occuring and that second hive taking an infinite to go up.
I play gorge often when I play alien. Not because I particularly empathise with the class, I have more fun as skulk/fade, but because I know what needs to be done and actually get it done and done quickly. I take my satisfaction from the team's praise at end of map and the fact we win ( quickly more often than not ).
The 'exploit' was that you could use the ready room to jump back into the game without waiting to respawn.
<b>All</b> your resources are returned, also. Not some, all of them, every last one. I've tested it.
The code specifically blocks you from switching teams currently, but also specifically allows you to join your old team again. If they considered it an exploit, they would have made it impossible to join ANY team after going to readyroom. They didn't. They left in the specifically ability to redistribute your resources to the rest of the team.
The usefulness of this is an instant 'boost' of resources, at the expensive of proportionally slower resource growth from that point on due to being reset to zero resources.
However, judging both from the specific implementation of the 'can't join after going ready room' limitations, in that you <i>can</i> still join your same team, I don't believe that using this to 'flush' resources is considered an exploit, since in the end it's only a short-term 'boost' to your res that in the long run doesn't really give you any extra to work with, merely redistributing your 'on hand' resources now for slower resources later on.
If this is untrue, then why are you still allowed to rejoin YOUR team when you go ready room, AND your resources are flushed to them all when you do so, instead of only 'flushed' if you disconnect from the server? You can't join the other team anyways, so why not keep your resources while you bounce through the ready room?
If I'm completely wrong, please, would Flayra or a Forum Moderation or Playtested that's spoken to him please tell me so? And if I am, where is my logic incorrect? Or what changes will be made in the next version that would affect my train of logic?
If I understand the principle behind the exploit that the people were using t'other day, was that by getting people esp. people on full 33/33 to donate the gorges would get enough to build a hive within a few minutes of the start of the game. Thus leading to fades when the marines are barely leaving their base. I'm not sure of the feasibility of this as I've never tried it but if it's possible to get a hive up quicker than should be possible through this method then it's gotta be an exploit. The fact that once the hive is going up they don't get resources as quickly as before is not really a problem as it'll take a few minutes for the hive to grow within which the gorge(s) can get up new res chambers and supplement their income.
Example using approximate timings ( I have no idea how accurate it is as I said before I can't keep track of time duing games )
Normal:
Gorge builds 3 or 4 res chambers then hive - fades not available for first 10 - 15 mins of game.
If exploit works:
Gorge build 1 or possibly 2 res chambers then hive using donations - fades available after 5 minutes of game.
If and it's a mighty if, the exploit works still and the aliens can get fades even 5 minutes faster than they possibly could have otherwise then they get a ridicously large advantage as the marines probably won't have any research done at that point let alone weapons upgrade research.
As I said, if it works - I can't say it does or it doesn't for sure and would like clarification from someone who can say for certain. However if it still can be exploited in the manner I describe, then maybe the method of expanding respawn time after each "donation" could be implemented.
As the developers decided to involve themselves in server management and the can't swop teams after choosing situation, then this is obviously a situation they'd feel is their prerogative.
*forums ate my post edit*
The single gorge need not build ANY recourse chambers.
Each time a skulk dies, he quicky goes to ready room... then re-joins the team.
An organized team of aliens doing this is rediculously usefull (exploit).
The aliens have a large enough advantage on almost every map as it is.... without this exploit.
IMHO the adenaline upgrade needs to be removed... this would help balance the aliens/marines.... and would make for some actual options when selecting which upgrade you want.
But i beg to differ on the point that recycling is a cheat, exploint, etc. but is infact another team builder.
Yes indeed if a team uses the exploit to get fades in five minutes then they have the advantage, but there is a sacrifice of team mates. I think this is a team builder because a person sacrifices his resources and his aid for the "greater cause" of getting another hive or more defence or what not. Maybe they are out of the game only for a few seconds but still, if you are experienced in NS then you know a few seconds is all it takes to win the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and when they are not in the game the marines have an advantage, one less skulk to guard stuff... and so forth.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if the aliens are inclined to recycle or "cheat" in your view, the marines have the obvious advantage, in most cases, and should take that opportunity to rush or siege their main hive.
There you have it "the reason recycling isnt a true cheat" post.
Keep blasting those Kharaa guys <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Lets say you do have skulks at 33 resources who want to give back to the gorges, they hit f4, go to readyroom, return.
That's time spent *not* harassing the marine team, which is always a viable tool in the early game.
During this time anyways, the marines should be looking to take one if not two hives from the enemy.
It works out as well, in that if a skulk is maxed at 33 rp's, the previous resource points that would have been given him are instead given out to the gorges, meaning that if he does f4 it to the readyroom, resource distribution returns to less than "normal" (ie, gorges are getting less of the total resource points, because now they're being distributed amongst skulks again).
This does allow for a sudden resource boost at the beginning of the game, but it only occurs once, and in my experience with it happening, doesn't occur so often as to be an incredibly viable tool.
Plus, it disappears after the 2nd hive, as the skulks all want to keep saving up resource points to evolve into further forms.
Flayra has said it is an exploit and was not intended to work like that
Also during playtesting they kicked around the idea of letting aliens share resources with each other, it was found to be unbalancing, its insane to propose they ment you to quit the game and rejoin in order to use a "feature", why would they have removed a conded in ability to give resources and intend you to use the readyroom exploit
res should be spread only when the person leaves server not just go ready room.
The problem with your argument... is that the skulks that 'flushed' those resources to 'get' fades sooner... have ZERO resources to evolve with, they have to wait all the way up for 44 resources, instead of only 11 more after a second hive comes up to go fade.
You don't get fades any sooner. ACCESS to them, yes, and you may get a second chamber type to pick from, but this does NOT give you actual Fades any sooner at all, because you lose the resouces to eveolve to one by doing the flush in the first place.
Doing this to get three hives up in the first 15 minutes isn't that useful... as nobody will be able to evolve for quite a while then, so while you may have those Onos available... bloody unlikely you'll EVER get to use a single one in the next 30-45 minutes AFTER that. You flush much, you're playing a game of fancy skulk-work with front-line gorges for assaults, not a game with fades and lerk's backing each other up to tear down the Marine stuff at range.
Another alternative, which I thing I'd prefer would be to allocate the regained resources to non gorges...
Bart
Used in any other way, this exploit is non-sensical, and a waste of time. So what, second hive in 5 minutes - you will have no fades for a looong time.
I am against the use of this exploit, and the best two suggestions i have heard are:
1) Resource points are only re-assigned when a player leaves the server.
2) Resource points only trickle back in slowly, not instantly.
I am sure that Flayra will be addressing this in the next version.
This is when the skulks (who start with 10 and probably have 15 rp when the first guy goes gorge), all press F4 when they die.
Now the gorge can IMMEDIATELY build 3-4 resource towers as fast as he can waddle his fat **obscenity** over to the resources. Hell throw up a Defense tower too to give your skulks a 100% boost in life.
So now you have 3-4 rts up and you get the hive pretty quickly. The skulks just hold onto whatever rps they have. By the time the hive is up, the skulks get to fades pretty quickly since you have 3-4 RTs.
The limited resource tower-pool seems a great idea, the trickle of RPs comming in will make recycling much less effective.
People, as snake13 said, this IS an exploit. If youre going to discuss exploits at least get your facts straight. This "feature" was indeed added into the game during Playtesting, however, it was later removed due to the fact that it was unbalancing. An exploit is something that isnt meant to be in the game. Tell me, where does the logic of "They meant for us to do it!" come from? If they had meant for you to use that "feature" wouldnt they have added a vgui button (much like the evolution menus etc) in order to let the team do it? What do you think made Flayra change the code so people couldnt rejoin a team after they went to the readyroom for the second time?
It sickens me to see so many people try to justify what is clearly an exploit. I have been to servers where i even got kicked for not "giving my resources to the team" by using this same exploit.
Get your facts straight, THIS IS AN EXPLOIT, it doesnt matter if it only "gives you an advantage during early game" it doesnt matter if you think it doesnt help at all. The fact that youre doing it makes you an exploiter.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Addressed alien leave/join resource exploit (joining a team you've already been on makes the player wait to respawn, as if he had been killed).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please note that it says 2 things: <b> resource EXPLOIT </b> and <b> Addressed </b>.
I point this out because people seem to think that since it was <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=addressed' target='_blank'>addressed (Defination 5a)</a> and is still there that it is a feature. It's not. They are working on fixing it but it is a work in progress. I hate when people demand that I "recycle". I always tell them that it is bug abuse and that can get you banned on some servers. They laugh and call me a n00b. I really grow weary of this "win at all costs" online attitude. Can't we all just play by the rules?