general concerns, and things i think could be improved drastically

potatoZMasterpotatoZMaster IsraelMembers Join Date: 2020-06-20 Member: 261999Posts: 15 Fully active user
below are a list of 5 major or minor concerns i have with below zero's gameplay in general, not related to story or bugs.

1) chelicerates. chelicerates too high up prevents people from exploring otherwise superb areas of the game. Specifically, the ventgarden area, and the east side of the purple vents. If the goal of them is to be an arctic reaper, having them in the middle of the map is a bad move, since it locks off portions of the map. This is by far my biggest concern with the game, the rest below this are just minor concerns that I think would enhance the game, whereas this one really bugs me.

2) The deepest parts of the game feel lackluster (crystal caverns and fabricator caverns). The potential is there; I was amazed when I first got into them, and the shadow leviathans are incredible, they serve their purpose very well to scare the player but not make it impossible to explore. However, there are two big issues: the first is, its quite dark. compare these biomes to the lava zones or lost river, and the latter are FAR brighter, including many details on the walls and biomes than you can see right away, encouraging you to explore them. and two, the entire biome is very plain. Other than a few fragments here and there, there is very little to do outside of the main storyline. again, compare this to the lost river, which leads me to my next point:

3) There isn’t enough stuff to do. In the first game, a LOT of the draw felt like it came from the idea of a totally open world to explore, with many different things to do; the sky was the limit. The lost river felt like a biome, not a story plot with only one path. In specific, the fossils that had basically nothing to do with the story, were amazing inclusions, that are totally absent from snbz. The giant cove tree as well, although it serves no purpose to the game, was one of the most memorable parts, and a hugely popular place to build a base. The biomes in snbz feel way more like streamlined plot devices, rather than actual biomes i can explore.

4) Lack of uniqueness. The lack of biomes that are completely different from one another, is very apparent. the only biomes I can think of that truly feel like a different world than any other area on snbz, are the deep lily flower biome, (which is superb), and mayyyybe the crystal caves, but not really. All the rest of them feel like different variations of something else. As an example from the first game: the blood kelp trench was a completely new world from anything around it. The area around lifepod 19, was super different than the areas around it. The dunes felt barren and empty, while the mushroom forest felt full and lifelike. The lost river was a whole new world under the rocks. The lava zones were incredible, giving a hot magma covered perspective on the deepest parts of the ocean. The bulb zone was completely unique compared to any other biome, as was the grand reef. It felt like each biome was its own world with its own ecosystem, whereas in bz, they all kinda feel about the same. Twisty bridges feels the same as shallow twisty bridges, kelp forest, and deep twisty bridges, thermal spires feels the same as purple vents and tree spires, Lilypads is kinda unique but it’s too small to make a difference, and it’s right next to the ventgardens which makes it feel unspecial. All the on land portions feel exactly the same, and the arctic, sparse arctic, and glacier all feel the same as well.

5) The world feels really really small. I am not sure if this was intended, but it’s way faster to get to the edge of the map than it was in sn, and it feels slightly restrictive, as if we’re not playing in an open world anymore, but rather in a small map, reducing the realism. This point is less important than the other ones imo, but it’s worth noting, and goes hand in hand with number 3.

some solutions:

1) move the chelicerates deeper. i'd love to see the chelicerates as a replacement for the reaper leviathans, guarding the furthest reaches of the map, rather than being placed near the center. it would provide a more progressing difficulty level, rather than just giving you a random chelicerate in the center for no reason, and it would open the world significantly more, allowing you to build a base in areas otherwise not accessible without a prawn suit or seatruck to protect you.

2) i think a lot of the biome problems i have would be solved by simply increasing the field of view in some biomes, and changing the color tints to be either darker or brighter. the biggest culprit of this by far is the crystal caves, where it feels reaaaaally plain, because of the way the crystals LOOK like they should glow, but dont, and are instead hidden by the foggy effect of the water. darken the biome, and brighten the light sources, to match the ideas from the deep lily flower biome, where the biome is quite dark but the flowers REALLY stand out, making it far more enjoyable. the other thing that makes them lackluster is the fact that the whole biome looks exactly the same. maybe add different parts of the biome, like how the lava zones were split into two different zones, each with unique features (lava castle, the big lava lake, corridors, and main rooms). an example, you could add a fabricator caverns corridor, connected to a large main fabricator caverns room, rather than just one big mesh of caverns. crystal caves could have this same treatment applied to it.

3) add more things that are not related to the story. wrecks from sn didnt always contain story related blueprints, but they ALWAYS had blueprints, meaning you were inclined to explore them even if it didnt advance the plot. id love to see a similar thing implemented, the mercury is a decent start but it only has a few pieces and they arent very time consuming, you can explore all of them in about 30 minutes, and they provide very little blueprints or resources at all, really just a landmark rather than a useful exploration site. also if possible, expand the world, although i think this would require a LOT more work, and its less important than the rest of the points i made.

love to hear thoughts on this, and i want to mention in addition that i think bz is a GREAT game so far, i thoroughly enjoyed it, i just think it has a few things it could improve.
crayfish02Jacke

Comments

  • PantagueulePantagueule BelgiumMembers Join Date: 2020-06-26 Member: 262149Posts: 4 Fully active user
    Is this game being developped as well and fast as the first one? I'd like to know if I can buy it now, or should wait to be sure the devs arent abandonning it, because you're not the first person I see complain about too many predators in starting areas, a lackluster story and basically what feels like a rushed sequel? Was this also the case at first for the first game? I'd love to hear your feedback!
  • potatoZMasterpotatoZMaster IsraelMembers Join Date: 2020-06-20 Member: 261999Posts: 15 Fully active user
    this game is 1000% worth getting. the concerns i am presenting here are very much only things i think would enhance the game to the level of the first game, but that is not to say this game isnt incredible. i want to stress: i think below zero is in an incredibly good state right now, despite what ive said. some examples of stuff that the game is doing right:

    1) the deep lily flower biome. this biome is completely new from anything we have seen in the first game, and is totally unique in the second. an amazing take on a deep biome.
    2) the abandoned mine shaft. i mention above that the game has issues with too mainlined of a plot, and not enough to flesh out the world. this is one CLEAR example of something that does NOT follow that sentiment. the entire mine shaft is very much not relevant to the game, you can complete the game with only the seatruck pretty easily, and yet, its an awesome addition, that makes you want to explore it thoroughly, not to mention that the area is full of things to scan, and plenty to do.
    3) one of the major problems with the first game was the randomness that you could get stuff from the outcrops. this game, all outcrops can either drop their normal drop, or titanium. its a massive improvement from the first game imo.
    4) the storyline. i wont spoil anything, but the storyline is quite intriguing, even in the early stages. it deals with things that are very relatable, such as human instinct, and recalls things we enjoyed about the first game in a new way.
    5) overall, the game still has that feeling the first one had that drew me to the game: the idea of an entire world to explore underwater. that part will always be unique to subnautica series, and its one of the core aspects that makes this game incredible.

    definitely worth getting. the only reason i made this post is to raise a few VERY specific concerns, that i think would improve the game further than it already is.
    PantagueuleJacke
  • HerobrinesbestminionHerobrinesbestminion Members Join Date: 2019-12-07 Member: 256209Posts: 37 Advanced user
    this is more something to place in suggestions.... but well.... I stay carefull before I have the prawn and when I have it it's my favorite way to travel around so I normaly don't have leviathan problems... I must say I haven't played much because of the story rework (I hate losing progress) but I had one hardcore (not in hardcore mode) encounter with one and was more bored and maybe a little bit anoyed because I was searching for the seatruck parts right next to it (stop it, metal is not yummy XD)
    I wasn't in the caverns yet, the game indeed feels more like the DLC it was first planed as in terms of new content (but still great), the world is smaller to focus the story more and the variations are good enough for me ;)
    oh and yes, the game is worth buying the first one helped me with my fearlevel and this one has some new scary challenges (oh look a nICE little worm) (for real, I don't consider the games as horror just survival :D )
  • potatoZMasterpotatoZMaster IsraelMembers Join Date: 2020-06-20 Member: 261999Posts: 15 Fully active user
    travelling around in the prawn suit is all well and good, but its pretty slow, and most people prefer to travel via seatruck as far as im aware. on top of that, building bases in the areas with the chelicerates is near impossible, and their placement just seems... off. yes in reality the leviathans pose less of a threat than they seem to, but the whole point of the leviathans is to cause the player fear, and realism, so that the player strays away from those areas or considers them dangerous (see reapers in the first game being all around the most dangerous and furthest reaches of the map). i dont think chelicerates have a place in the center or near the center of the map.
  • TyrannicGoatTyrannicGoat Virginia USAMembers Join Date: 2020-07-13 Member: 262501Posts: 1 Fully active user
    So I haven't gotten very far yet (just got the seatruck). overall I am highly enjoying it. One thing that keeps taking me out of the game is very jarring rendering changes. One issue being icebergs popping into existence out of nowhere instead of fading into view (maybe occlusion issue). Another one is an issue where one moment I see the sun reflecting off the iceberg and then next moment it's gone. This is really disappointing because it looked really beautiful and attracted me to the tunnel in the first place. hbk2gqoo7u45.png It seems like a shader issue, which render pipeline does this game use?

    A side note of mine is that I disagree with the comments that there are too many empty areas, and actually think the opposite. Having that moment where all you see (pun) is a vast blue ocean of emptiness is beautiful, mysterious, and terrifying at the same time. Finding Nemo had that kind of moment if I remember correctly. Filling every space with tons of fish and animals and shying away from emptiness makes it less likely that the player gets to have that particular experience imo.

    Great work so far guys! Can't wait to get further in!
  • SorenzorSorenzor Madrid, SpainMembers Join Date: 2020-04-04 Member: 259618Posts: 19 Advanced user
    edited July 16
    While I agree with most of the problems in the op, I disagree about the chelicerates preventing exploration. There are not that many of them and they are just not that dangerous. In fact, i would say that the game needs more real dangers, more dangerous predators. Not one thousand of annoying creatures that force you to repair the submarine every 30 seconds, but real danger. The game feels absolutely safe when you stop jumping. The predators, even the biggest ones, are useless. With the electrical defense in the submarine, you are not only invincible, you are untouchable. The dark leviathan can kiss your ass. Or he can try, he won't be able because he will be crying in pain.

    Just, please, when someone says stuff like "less reapers" or anything similar... no. This game is already too safe. Way, way, way too safe. The stalkers are starting to become slightly dangerous in land but in water, it's stupid. In many biomes there are no predators at all. We really need things that keep us on our toes.
  • potatoZMasterpotatoZMaster IsraelMembers Join Date: 2020-06-20 Member: 261999Posts: 15 Fully active user
    i want to clarify: i dont want the chelicerates removed. i would love for them to be a real threat, and to be truly more dangerous than they are even now. my problem with them isnt how dangerous they are, its their placement. just as i wouldnt expect a squidshark to spawn next to the shallow twisty bridges, i wouldnt expect an endgame leviathan predator to spawn in one of the earliest biomes you explore, the purple vents. make them more dangerous sure, but make them spawn in places further away on the map, near the edges, not near the center.

    i also think that having the game be not very dangerous is totally fine. at its core, subnautica is not a combat based game, its an explorer. none of the tools you have available are explicitly designed for killing, only surviving. if you died at every corner, it would significantly reduce your ability to explore, and most players would just outright avoid the areas that were too dangerous, kinda how i currently just avoid the chelicerates instead of exploring near them and risking things.
  • potatoZMasterpotatoZMaster IsraelMembers Join Date: 2020-06-20 Member: 261999Posts: 15 Fully active user

    A side note of mine is that I disagree with the comments that there are too many empty areas, and actually think the opposite. Having that moment where all you see (pun) is a vast blue ocean of emptiness is beautiful, mysterious, and terrifying at the same time. Finding Nemo had that kind of moment if I remember correctly. Filling every space with tons of fish and animals and shying away from emptiness makes it less likely that the player gets to have that particular experience imo.

    Great work so far guys! Can't wait to get further in!

    i dont think the problem is the "emptiness" feeling that you get from say, the arctic biome on the east. that biome is meant to look truly empty as far as i can tell, and it does that job well. the problem lies in biomes that should NOT be empty, but are. the biggest culprit of this by far is the crystal caves and fabricator caverns, both of which are HUGE biomes, with gigantic crystals layering them throughout, but... they have nothing else to do in them other than look at it, and even then the crystals arent very appealing. again i keep comparing these two biomes to the lost river (crystal caves) and the lava zones (fabricator caverns): the lost river had LOADS of things to do in it, from the cove tree, to the brine, to the alien facilities, to the skeletons, wide array of flora and fauna, etc. the caverns have none of that; only two or three fauna, two or three flora, only ONE environmental thing (the crystals, which arent that cool anyways, see the lighting issue), no features like the skeletons, one facility but its not prominent, no environmental dangers or caves, and no parallel to the cove tree at all. its JUST crystals and the shadow leviathans, and thats it. the fabricator caverns follow similarly, although to a worse extent, since there is LITERALLY nothing there except the facility, crystals, and shadow leviathans.

    long story short, im fine with having a "big open ocean" biome, but id really rather most biomes not be like that. at the end of the day, this is a video game that i want to explore, and if there isnt anything to find, im going to be disappointed one way or another.
  • SorenzorSorenzor Madrid, SpainMembers Join Date: 2020-04-04 Member: 259618Posts: 19 Advanced user

    i want to clarify: i dont want the chelicerates removed. i would love for them to be a real threat, and to be truly more dangerous than they are even now. my problem with them isnt how dangerous they are, its their placement. just as i wouldnt expect a squidshark to spawn next to the shallow twisty bridges, i wouldnt expect an endgame leviathan predator to spawn in one of the earliest biomes you explore, the purple vents. make them more dangerous sure, but make them spawn in places further away on the map, near the edges, not near the center.

    i also think that having the game be not very dangerous is totally fine. at its core, subnautica is not a combat based game, its an explorer. none of the tools you have available are explicitly designed for killing, only surviving. if you died at every corner, it would significantly reduce your ability to explore, and most players would just outright avoid the areas that were too dangerous, kinda how i currently just avoid the chelicerates instead of exploring near them and risking things.

    The thing is, the quelicerate patrols. It's not always in the same place. And that's amazing. I usually don't find him in the purple vents and when I do, he is usually close to the entrance of the deeper caves, near the ventgarden. That's a great place to be because you can hide inside the ventgarden, or in the caves, or just don't get to that place, usually you can explore the purple vents without his presence.

    But the possibility of him being there, is amazing. It makes you LOOK, search for him, not getting slept.

    Oh, sorry for taking so long to answer, there is so much lack of activity in the forums that I only look at them once or twice a week.
  • potatoZMasterpotatoZMaster IsraelMembers Join Date: 2020-06-20 Member: 261999Posts: 15 Fully active user
    Sorenzor wrote: »


    The thing is, the quelicerate patrols. It's not always in the same place. And that's amazing. I usually don't find him in the purple vents and when I do, he is usually close to the entrance of the deeper caves, near the ventgarden. That's a great place to be because you can hide inside the ventgarden, or in the caves, or just don't get to that place, usually you can explore the purple vents without his presence.

    This is not the chelicerate I’m referring to. There are two chelicerates on the map (maybe three I forget if there is a second one in the tree spires.) they do roam, but not very much as you’d expect, they have a circle of about 300 meters, but they are able to detect you pretty far away anyways. The chelicerate I’m talking about is on the EAST side of purple vents, and it’s circle is 100% fully in the purple vents. The one you’re saying is actually in the tree spires, if it comes to the purple vents, you drew it there, it won’t go there by itself.

    I actually think it would be way cooler if the chelicerates had a patrol path as you said, that was much much farther than it is now. It would make the game feel dangerous, while still allowing you to explore all locations as long as you pay attention. Maybe allow the eastern one to swim between its current location, the arctic, and the edge of the lily pads biome, in a circle.
  • SwampleSwample IsraelMembers Join Date: 2020-08-29 Member: 263658Posts: 2 Fully active user
    Well, the game is still developing and I assume parts of the game will be refined and changed.
  • inevitroninevitron Members Join Date: 2020-09-01 Member: 263709Posts: 1 Freshly registered user
    I have to type a comment and wait a day to report a bug, so this thread is the lucky winner.
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