Build 327 Balance Patch Notes - Natural Selection 2

SystemSystem Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond Posts: 466 vanilla
edited April 13 in NS2 General Discussion

imageBuild 327 Balance Patch Notes - Natural Selection 2

In 327 we’re introducing some big changes to Gorge Tunnels, Alien PvE, Marine weapons and more. Below you will find extensive explanations and reasoning behind these changes- One common theme...

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Comments

  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Posts: 1,493 Advanced user
    bump. These are out about 1 week in advance of the patch (ETA the 18th).
    image
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Oh boy. This will be huge.
    Doppy
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,618 Advanced user
    8v8 cultists rise up
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    Nordicskav2
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,465 Advanced user
    I appreciate the writeup, more developers should provide patchnotes with reasons for changes.

    I'm a bit worried about the self cloaking drifters. Do they look like cloaked players or cloaked structures? I guess not having crag or shift means there's a tradeoff, though.
    I'm also a big fan of the advanced support research.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Vetinari wrote: »
    I'm a bit worried about the self cloaking drifters.

    Of all the things to be worried about, I think I can safely say this is almost a complete non-issue.
    Vetinari
  • trinity.nstrinity.ns Join Date: 2008-12-07 Member: 65688Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 137 Advanced user
    Love how much effort is still put into development! Epic <3
    Think outside the box? Burn the goddamned box!
    .trixX.Doppy
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 852 Advanced user
    edited April 14
    "Now provides a flat increase energy regeneration"

    Thank you! I've been missing this ever since NS1 build 323!
    Post edited by .trixX. on
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    .trixX. wrote: »
    "Now provides a flat increase energy regeneration"

    Thank you! I've been missing this ever since NS1

    NS2 had +30% energy regeneration with adrenaline until it was removed in build 323.
  • webtjwebtj usa Join Date: 2017-07-19 Member: 231920Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1 Fully active user
    the build has a lot of effort from dev,cdt, pt and mt
    Kasharic
  • xtalxtal aka X-rayCat Join Date: 2009-06-28 Member: 67961Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 74 Advanced user
    what about the balance, will you fix it finally?
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 151 Advanced user
    edited April 15
    I'm doubtfull

    Again, Aliens have a lot of change, nor does marine have



    Please let marine build Sentry Battery without needing the Robotics Factory... :/


    EDIT : and limit the buying of 2 FT and 2 GL... or at least a warning message... :/
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 852 Advanced user
    Xale wrote: »
    Please let marine build Sentry Battery without needing the Robotics Factory... :/

    Sentries are OP against early game aliens, why make it even more useful in that regard?
    What i dont like about them is their fragility after aliens get bilebomb. They should have some researchable extra measure for middle-late game usage.
    Xale wrote: »
    and limit the buying of 2 FT and 2 GL... or at least a warning message...

    What about rushes? I've commanded plenty of rounds on pub where we won by rushing the hives with only FT+GL.
    Any built-in mechanic to organize loadout would be way more cumbersome than just asking pple over voicechat.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 953 Advanced user
    Xale wrote: »
    EDIT : and limit the buying of 2 FT and 2 GL... or at least a warning message... :/

    What I would like to see though is a number when buying a weapon (or evolving as lifeform) how many of your team has that weapon atm (or is that lifeform)
    return to zero
  • colonoscopy_odysseycolonoscopy_odyssey Melbourne Join Date: 2014-04-25 Member: 195607Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 59 Advanced user
    RIP NS2 it was a beautiful few years
    Nintendows
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 190 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    Xale wrote: »
    EDIT : and limit the buying of 2 FT and 2 GL... or at least a warning message... :/

    What I would like to see though is a number when buying a weapon (or evolving as lifeform) how many of your team has that weapon atm (or is that lifeform)

    That would be nice. Like Grenade Launcher. (0/2) Then turn grey once limit is reached.

    Also this update looks great. Played a few of the beta builds so far and Ive enjoyed most of what Ive seen. One difficult part now is that aliens have to work together quite a bit more than previously. Shotguns feel great at close range so that's awesome. In 326 i feel like after a certain point sgs just tickle aliens but in 327 they are good place.

    Gls are in a better spot now. No more 1-2 shotting aliens. But they do great structure damage. Nice balance to it.

    Gorges are fun to play. More evasive than they used to be and can be much more annoying but thats a good thing. Rather them be annoying then useless sitting on tunnels all game.

  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 151 Advanced user
    What i dont like about them is their fragility after aliens get bilebomb

    Bilebomb is fucking cheated.

    Gorge have a HUGE amout of HP, they can hide in tunnels, and now their belly-slide speed is increased ? What a joke.


    Back in NS1 gorge didn't have belly and not much HP. If he get discovered that was the end. And know what ? It wasn't a big deal, the player had just to regorge...


    1 Rifle marine vs 1 gorge is a waste of bullet for marine. It shouldn't be like that.



    Also, decrease IP cost to 15 please...
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 151 Advanced user
    Also, scans cost 3 ress right ? This is wayyy too much. should be 1... or at least 2.
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 190 Advanced user
    Xale wrote: »
    What i dont like about them is their fragility after aliens get bilebomb

    Bilebomb is fucking cheated.

    Gorge have a HUGE amout of HP, they can hide in tunnels, and now their belly-slide speed is increased ? What a joke.


    Back in NS1 gorge didn't have belly and not much HP. If he get discovered that was the end. And know what ? It wasn't a big deal, the player had just to regorge...


    1 Rifle marine vs 1 gorge is a waste of bullet for marine. It shouldn't be like that.



    Also, decrease IP cost to 15 please...


    Im down with a slight nerf on Bile bomb to structures. That I can agree with. However if you have played in the beta servers you will realize that BB + faster slide is not horrendous. If you let a team of gorges in your base then that is your teams fault.

    Plus with 10v10 or 8v8 player environmant as this build is made to represent, its a lot harder to take over a base or do much damage with less players. It can still happen though but that is to be expected.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,477 Advanced user
    Xale wrote: »
    Also, scans cost 3 ress right ? This is wayyy too much. should be 1... or at least 2.

    This was always a "why was the NS1 energy system not better" thing for me. Just limit the scans and make them free
    mattji104
  • Cjman93Cjman93 Minnesota Join Date: 2013-12-20 Member: 190370Members Posts: 2 Fully active user
    RIP gorge tunnels. It was a good seven years.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,735 Advanced user
    This will be one of the best patches we have had in awhile. The beta is so much better
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    DoppyNintendowsNousWandererSupaFred
  • DoppyDoppy Join Date: 2006-11-15 Member: 58624Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 126 Advanced user
    LOVE these changes. Overall an improvement to almost every facet of the game.

    As much as I hate seeing 12v12 changing to 10v10, it'll just mean more servers are required and hopefully it means that each server will have less of a spread of skill level (ie, players no longer have to play in a server with players with a certain skill level as there'll be more to choose from).

    The changes to the Shotgun spread, Skulk floor jump speed, Lerks, Fades crouching while blinking, and Marine backpedaling speed will significantly lower the learning curve for new players and hopefully it means that they'll keep playing.
    [GAYZ] Dopeski
    NousWandererskav2
  • e_Tye_Ty Join Date: 2017-07-31 Member: 232158Members Posts: 5 Fully active user
    HYDRAS
    ● Gorge structures cost no p-res anymore
    ● Hydras are now more accurate at close distance
    ● Now fires consistently every 0.8 seconds
    "to encourage them to be more active on the field as opposed to the PvE map-control"

    ???????
    logic has left the game
  • jrgnjrgn Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58289Members Posts: 141 Advanced user
    Really like some of the changes but as mentioned above, the reduction of player slots is a really dangerous path. Most servers still alive today are at 22 or 24 which seem to work on pubs. Smaller servers have a hard time filling up. So it looks like 22 is the sweet spot, from experience. Hopefully someone will mod this quickly. And thanks for sharing the reasoning behind the changes in the log.
    moultano
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,618 Advanced user
    12v12 + belongs in arcade, and there it should stay. Problems with server retention should not be reliant on high player counts because that just makes terrible, sub-mediocre games the norm. Instead we need a railroad to bring waiting players into servers quickly, and once that is perfected for 10v10, the server count must be dropped to 8v8. Only then would public NS2 play would stop being a cancerous joke
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    NordicNousWandererskav2
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,017 Advanced user
    This game relies on community servers in order to exist.

    Server cost money. They can be funded in two ways.

    1) A rich server operator just pays for it all out of his pocket. -Game is completely dependent on random rich server operators to exist.

    2) Server is funded by community donation. -Game is dependent on random server operators creating a server that the community enjoys and members are willing to donate money to.

    In number 2 the most common way to do this is the selling of reserved slots so that players can join the server when it is full.

    There is currently 3 ways to implement reserved slots:

    1) Kick players to make room for a new player to join.
    2) Leave 2 slots open so up to two additional players with reserved slots can join.
    3) Implement some sort of mod to manipulate the spot values to allow for you to do option 2 but while creating more than the allowed number of slots. For example you get a server that has more than the maximum allowable slots but you just forge the data to cheat the system and hope they do not catch on.

    image
    Server IP: NS2.IBISGaming.com
    Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
  • ZEROibisZEROibis Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69176Members, Constellation Posts: 1,017 Advanced user
    Doppy wrote: »
    LOVE these changes. Overall an improvement to almost every facet of the game.

    As much as I hate seeing 12v12 changing to 10v10, it'll just mean more servers are required and hopefully it means that each server will have less of a spread of skill level (ie, players no longer have to play in a server with players with a certain skill level as there'll be more to choose from).

    The changes to the Shotgun spread, Skulk floor jump speed, Lerks, Fades crouching while blinking, and Marine backpedaling speed will significantly lower the learning curve for new players and hopefully it means that they'll keep playing.

    Logically when you reduce the number of players on a team the game naturally becomes more competitive. Now ask yourself has the game not being competitive enough been a problem for pubs and or new players, NO. In fact it is just the opposite to some degree. We all enjoy the competitive nature of NS2 and many of us recognize that most new players are not used to such a competitive game and become overwhelmed. While I am not advocating in making the game less competitive than it has been historically I do not see how making it more competitive is going to be helpful.

    Comp servers have existed since the beginning, nothing stops you from making a 6v6 server except that the majority of players do not want to play in something that competitive. This is why you see most pub servers at 22-24 slots. There is a lot more players out there looking for a competitive pub match than there is looking for a competitive competitive match.

    The update they are talking about is supposed to be making the game more "fun" rather than perfect balance. This seems to imply that the devs want to make the game appeal to a more pub friendly base. However, by reducing the player counts they are achieving the opposite and instead making the game more competitively focused.
    image
    Server IP: NS2.IBISGaming.com
    Server IP: NS2CO.IBISGaming.com
    jrgn.trixX.
  • oldmansteveoldmansteve Join Date: 2019-04-17 Member: 252378Members Posts: 1 Freshly registered user
    I think the changes will hurt the game. You will end up with all high level players and push out lower players like me.
    I have tried it as both comm and player and didn't like it you may want to try 2 kinds of servers.
    It will most likely make me search for a new game to play 2272 hour on NS2
    Just saying
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    ZEROibis wrote: »
    This game relies on community servers in order to exist.

    Server cost money. They can be funded in two ways.

    1) A rich server operator just pays for it all out of his pocket. -Game is completely dependent on random rich server operators to exist.

    2) Server is funded by community donation. -Game is dependent on random server operators creating a server that the community enjoys and members are willing to donate money to.

    In number 2 the most common way to do this is the selling of reserved slots so that players can join the server when it is full.

    There is currently 3 ways to implement reserved slots:

    1) Kick players to make room for a new player to join.
    2) Leave 2 slots open so up to two additional players with reserved slots can join.
    3) Implement some sort of mod to manipulate the spot values to allow for you to do option 2 but while creating more than the allowed number of slots. For example you get a server that has more than the maximum allowable slots but you just forge the data to cheat the system and hope they do not catch on.

    I am so glad paid reserved slots are going away. NS2 is one of the last games I know of where it seems rampant/
    NordicKasharicskav2
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