Some new bugs/balance/gameplay things

borkbork Brest, Belarus Join Date: 2018-08-10 Member: 242760Members Posts: 34 Advanced user
edited November 16 in Ideas and Suggestions
1. regeneration (crag hive) shader fx still not in todo and not fixed. world model shader shows not synced with 1st person shader. its working even for onos (after 2 secs of getting damage shader on world shows up even if onos continue receive damage), but when skulk - you can miss it because skulk seems bigger than he is

2. sometimes hivedrop sound waiting player to get enough long to listen it and then play from start. i think its because sound is play directly on player who needs to hear it, not at hive location, or something. i detected that when comm say "am dropping hive" (i play alien), i was on subsector (veil), i look on map, see dropeed cargo. then i get gorge(evolved, 10 secs) and then walk from sub to cargo and then i hear sound of hive drop, somewhere near y-junction. it was dropped 30 sec ago.

3. skylights vent should out into skylights/overlook road, not to skylights. because gorge owning rookies there (having bile) or just with clogs. they try to get him out, but spending time and he still alive.

4. welder-drop from command station still costs 5 res by some reason 0_o when play with bots, they cant build nodes without welder and dont buy welder. i must drop it for 5 res.

5. if weapon is dropped (marine was killed) near armory it should be redropped to freeze timer. except of instantly freeze timer because armory nearby.

6. lmg timer is not freezes at all. when i fight alone near armory and have shotgun, i want my lmg to be nearme when i lost last bullet in my clip. but lmg dissapeared even if i redropping it (timer is restarting but never freezes)

7. axe has very big unpack time and very small hitspace. if you miss between secondary fire of lmg and get the axe - you will die, because you almost cant damage alien with this shit and you spent 1 sec to unpack it. i think the axe even has delay between attack and hit prevents skulk to get damage by it.

8. if you use secondary fire of lmg in middle reload - you will get your weapon faster than wait until trigger unlocks after animation ends. same thing with MG, if you change weapons in mid-reload (when ammo becomes in clip) you will get ready faster

9. mine explodes if you bite it until mine gets ready. in ns1 you can kill mine if bite it immediately after mine been placed.

10. getting ammo dropped by another soldier should be counted enough soldier needs. when you drop weapon with ammo, and soldier have same weapon, but not enough 1 bullet, he gets all your ammo for this one bullet

11. as i remember someone promises move nanogrid vent upside nanogrid prevents rookie trap falling rookies down from west/east wing.

12. bots ignores "defend" order immediately after getting point the order was dropped. he contacts this resource tower and go away.

13. defend order can not be dropped on ground - it requires object like marine or resource tower

14. sometimes when evolving egg moving away from evolve position. possible its because not enough space. but then i dont understand why i cant evolve gorge free in all vents - only when vent have high roofs. seems like game is trying to find possible location (makes you vulnerable on small maps creating egg directly in free space except of ladders/hard-getting points) but egg height still bigger than lifeform, what requires to evolve in direct vents instead off all



I) (?) egg is a building. it get additional damage from flamer and half-damage from hmg.

II) (?) gas grenade invulnerable to bile but visible as ground object

III) (?) web should be abble to build even if ground/objects breakes direct line. it should be on ground if rising ladder prevents direct line, currently i cant just drop this web, because second point is "red"

IV) (?) could the web connects between each connect point after being built? i mean if you drop 2 webs (4 points) - you get 4 webs cross connected. when two gorges drop 12 points (6 webs) it will be nice network (after it web should requires an upgrade, because could be easy killed only after AA) (especially for jetpacks and guys who like live faster)

V) (?) gas grenade should not display dealing damage because lifeforms becomes visible if player see numbers. gas grenade breaks cloaking too.

VI) (?) why not to rename crag upgrades to "crag" and "crag building" to "shell"? its terrible to explain rookie comm what i mean when "build crag upgrades".

VII) (?) tips when map is loading should contain game terminology like "resbiting", "rush", "be agressive", "prepare to protect res node", "rush tunnel", "hold ways/lines" and so on

VIII) (?) whip has 13 res cost. its more than resource tower. to protect resource tower. 3 sentries can block the way from skulks until bile been researched. for 25 + robofact res. this fortress could help vs fades/lerks. 13 res whip can notify soldier about "you should go faster, no more" - you need to spent 40 res to be sure way is protected. this turret nice kill enemy structures (100 damage), but as defense it is weak for 2 possible unbuilt res towers.

IX) (?) welder should immediately stop bile bomb effect from building like healing stop inflame effect. when being beaconed and run with enabled welder you could stop HP drain from whole base making bile bomb little bit weaker vs base structures

X) (?) anybody test drifter crag ability on Onos? sometimes i being exo deal to onos 3400 damage (i saw the number) and onos still have full hitpoints and no armor because comm spam this ability on onos for 2 res



A) shotgun is useless vs 1st hive crag. 3 crags requires damage 3 to shotgun vs skulks, because very big spread and small attack speed + solid skulk model borders. damage 3 requires 100 res and damn 5 minutes, except of 3 crags could be built very fast. SG still can be used vs fades/lerks/onoses/resources, but all skulks gets double effectivity vs shotguns. shotgun as we can see in tip and description - is thunderstorm for skulks. but if team start to play with crag (speed they can get from walljumping) - marines start to lose. and fast. now we can get advanced armory, seems to be fixed, but 324 had this confuse with sg/skulk+crag. in ns1 you had to shot twice - attack speed was twice faster with same damage, but skulk was smaller.

B ) grenade launcher has small explosion space but explodes immediately if contact alien. not sure its bug or feature, but flamer kills enemy structures faster and has more effectivity vs it than GL. but GL used as explosive shotgun looks imbalanced. seems like this is not anti-structure weapon, but the anti-personel super shotgun. simple delay before explosion will makes random effect zero-like, and then you can increase space of damage to damage hive nearby without direct hit. Full clip to kill clog wall vs 15/60 fuel of flamer? useless. But ws flying lerks fades grenade deals 200 immediate damage at damn its overpowered

C) you have task in trello like vampirism is useless for low-tier players. just allow vampirism from building with 30% effectivity. i should be able to regen hitpoints if damage extractor or bite phasegate. its solution.

D) adrenaline is useless problem. just make adrenaline different. if energy regeneration speed should be untouched - OK. nvm. look at this. when you get celerity - you get additional speed and more momentum when wall jumping. but if you catch the wall when walljumping, or fast drag the mouse - you will lose the moment. let adrenaline prevents to lose moment from that stuff. i mean adrenaline will make skulk more dynamic on rotations, lerk will lose less speed when holding space, same for fade, gorge will lose less speed when mistake of his special movement, and so on. should be tested before

E) contamination should be removed. as you remember another strategy games - if you have general-power to drop some bomb - you have time delay. 5res/5sec nuke bombing is imba. sorry guys who likes it.

F) onos stomp can deal 200 damage if being used on base buildings or big herd of marines. this makes alone onos overpowered. you still can kill it working in group of high-tier players, but if at least one alien is trying to help onos, this pair becomes extra overpowered.

G) if you wanna play on hive 3 possible, xeno should have less immediate damage and more time-separated damage (like after lerk bite). then damaged marines can heal near armory and possible hard-move to prevents lose on hive3. hive3 should not mean "concede" it should mean "now you have very small chances to fight"

H) hive elo system should be improved to easy understand player skill after 1-2 games. if you lost steam password or just drop the stats - you becomes green who plays 31/2 and crush the game for middle-tier players. you can latejoin even if shuffle plugin is active and change the game

I) there should be a way to hide all cyst from enemy like upgrade (remember starcraft2, marine commander needs to use scan to see the cysts). you can drop shade to hide it in some region, for 13 res. but losing one cyst when protecting resources on you own its a problem causes resource spending for heal. why not to able just research upgrade hiding all cyst without using scan? how about personal cyst upgrade to explode like lerk spores or bile? how about cyst upgrade makes brood-screen (like ability) after being killed by marine?

J) why shade active ability unlocks only when shade hive? why i must play shade when want arcs protection? it should be an upgrade like marine power-surge or nano-shield.
Post edited by bork on

Comments

  • borkbork Brest, Belarus Join Date: 2018-08-10 Member: 242760Members Posts: 34 Advanced user
    mistaked about whip. its just not protection tower, its teleporting unit. 3 whips kills node in 15 sec noone can react for it
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,078 Advanced user
    edited November 17
    B.

    Yes.. Fucking GL's are awful right now. The amount of times I backstab a GL with my skulk and get like 3 free bites in, and he just 180's and instagibs me even though I'm literally up his ass... It's so stupid. And the random lerk instagibs from GL's is ridiculous as well.. Fair enough if you could actually see the projectile, but no can't even do that.

  • KatzenfleischKatzenfleisch Join Date: 2014-03-21 Member: 194881Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 176 Advanced user
    edited November 17
    That's a big post you made there, I will try to respond to most of your points but some of those might require an other thread or you will end up with too much unrelated ideas in one place.

    5-6: Weapons sometime expiring near armory
    5. if weapon is dropped (marine was killed) near armory it should be redropped to freeze timer. except of instantly freeze timer because armory nearby.
    6. lmg timer is not freezes at all. when i fight alone near armory and have shotgun, i want my lmg to be nearme when i lost last bullet in my clip. but lmg dissapeared even if i redropping it (timer is restarting but never freezes)

    Those are the intended behaviors: The armory is only prevent intentionnaly dropped weapons (who cost pres) from expiring. Allowing other weapons (pistol + rifle) to not expire could end up in a spam of weapons on the floor shadowing real weapons. It would feel the same way as when you try to recycle a SG in combat but pick a welder instead because both are close from each other. The weapon is also expiring if a marine was killed even nearby the armory because otherwise it was considered too strong in favor of marines: aliens wiping marines with SG near an armory, but they would have to kill the armory as well for the weapons to expire instead of holding the ground 23s. Weapons not expiring near an armory was a buff for marines in the first place and that case is a limitation to that buff.
    7: Impractical axe
    7. axe has very big unpack time and very small hitspace. if you miss between secondary fire of lmg and get the axe - you will die, because you almost cant damage alien with this shit and you spent 1 sec to unpack it. i think the axe even has delay between attack and hit prevents skulk to get damage by it.

    Agreed but the axe has not been made to kill aliens. It's kinda like a shiny placeholder weapon against buildings. You can however use the rifle bash or the welder if you want to finish a low skulk.
    8: lmg/mg quick reload
    8. if you use secondary fire of lmg in middle reload - you will get your weapon faster than wait until trigger unlocks after animation ends. same thing with MG, if you change weapons in mid-reload (when ammo becomes in clip) you will get ready faster

    Known issue, but this is touching the animation graph and that part of the code is a pain to fix correctly. Just as a reference it took me a month to write a workaround (not a fix) for most of the whips issues related to the animation graph. The benefit of having this fixed unfortunatly do not warrant that much developpement time.
    9: Mine explode if you bite them
    9. mine explodes if you bite it until mine gets ready. in ns1 you can kill mine if bite it immediately after mine been placed.

    So, you are bitting a metal box dead full of dangerous explosive materials and you expect it not to blow up :D.
    10: Sharing ammo
    10. getting ammo dropped by another soldier should be counted enough soldier needs. when you drop weapon with ammo, and soldier have same weapon, but not enough 1 bullet, he gets all your ammo for this one bullet

    That's actually a good idea if it would be communicated to the player in a better way than it is now. So you suggest that you can drop your own weapon and that that ammo pack (not commander dropped ammo) will refill your friend only the amount of ammo he needs ? However this also seems overkill for me when you can just ask the commander for ammo, refill at an armory, switch to pistol, pick a weapon on the ground or waste less ammo.
    12: Bots defend order
    12. bots ignores "defend" order immediately after getting point the order was dropped. he contacts this resource tower and go away.

    Vanilla bots have a lots of issues at the moment and should not be considered good enough for anything but a seeding game. If you want decent bots I would suggest to poke @Nintendows, he wrote his own AI version for them and they are quite convincing.
    13: Defend order can't be casted on ground
    13. defend order can not be dropped on ground - it requires object like marine or resource tower

    Are you sure about that one ?
    14: Egg evolving space required
    14. sometimes when evolving egg moving away from evolve position. possible its because not enough space. but then i dont understand why i cant evolve gorge free in all vents - only when vent have high roofs. seems like game is trying to find possible location (makes you vulnerable on small maps creating egg directly in free space except of ladders/hard-getting points) but egg height still bigger than lifeform, what requires to evolve in direct vents instead off all

    That's a good question, I would say that the code is taking some extra care for the player to really not get stuck when gestating, even if it means restricting the number of places you can evolve from.
    I) Damage types
    I) (?) egg is a building. it get additional damage from flamer and half-damage from hmg.

    The egg (like cysts) are "flammable", all buildings are not. Those entities do take more damages from flame. The hmg damage type has been made to get extra damages against players. The fade has a similar damage type for the swipe dealing less damages to armored structures.
    II) Gas grenade can't be biled
    II) (?) gas grenade invulnerable to bile but visible as ground object

    Grenades can't be destroyed so far, making them so would only nerf the gaz grenade which I think is not needed (why buying a gas nade when you can buy pulse and cluster in that case ?)
    III) Web placement
    III) (?) web should be abble to build even if ground/objects breakes direct line. it should be on ground if rising ladder prevents direct line, currently i cant just drop this web, because second point is "red"
    IV) (?) could the web connects between each connect point after being built? i mean if you drop 2 webs (4 points) - you get 4 webs cross connected. when two gorges drop 12 points (6 webs) it will be nice network (after it web should requires an upgrade, because could be easy killed only after AA) (especially for jetpacks and guys who like live faster)

    I don't understand what you mean in "III", for the IV point did you mean auto creating a new and free web between two dropped and close webs ?
    V) Gas grenade damages displayed
    V) (?) gas grenade should not display dealing damage because lifeforms becomes visible if player see numbers. gas grenade breaks cloaking too.

    Any damages reducing the amount of eHP of a something should be displayed. If it's not then you introduce inconsistency in the game which is generally not a good thing.
    VII) Loading map tips
    VII) (?) tips when map is loading should contain game terminology like "resbiting", "rush", "be agressive", "prepare to protect res node", "rush tunnel", "hold ways/lines" and so on

    Tips displayed during changemap are being worked up (@Handschuh ?)
    VIII) Whip and sentries cost
    VIII) (?) whip has 13 res cost. its more than resource tower. to protect resource tower. 3 sentries can block the way from skulks until bile been researched. for 25 + robofact res. this fortress could help vs fades/lerks. 13 res whip can notify soldier about "you should go faster, no more" - you need to spent 40 res to be sure way is protected. this turret nice kill enemy structures (100 damage), but as defense it is weak for 2 possible unbuilt res towers.

    Whips and sentries are not meant to denie an area, but to slow players down until backup. Keep in mind that sentries can be recycled, and that whips can be echoed both are really strong correcty used. In my opinion the amount of tres each cost is well balanced so far.
    IX) Welder canceling the bile effect
    IX) (?) welder should immediately stop bile bomb effect from building like healing stop inflame effect. when being beaconed and run with enabled welder you could stop HP drain from whole base making bile bomb little bit weaker vs base structures

    This would be OP. With that a single marine can denie the bile of multiple gorges, and keep exos, ARCs and the power node alive forever. The welder is already quiet strong at repairing buildings and 2 of them can out heal a bile gorge.
    X) Mucous shield OP on onos
    X) (?) anybody test drifter crag ability on Onos? sometimes i being exo deal to onos 3400 damage (i saw the number) and onos still have full hitpoints and no armor because comm spam this ability on onos for 2 res

    You mean mucous shield ? yes it is powerful but for that you need a crag hive, a drifter, and a khammander who is micro managing that drifter to cast the ability at the right moment. Drifter abilities, even if they are strong, are not use that much for a reason unfortunately (the drifter is often late to the party and this require coordination with the team)

    I will leave points from A to J for now (balance discussions)
    Faded mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - Mod Guide )
    Defense mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop - Mod Repository - [url=""]Mod Guide (comming soon)[/url] )
    FlameSentry mod ( Forum Thread - Steam Workshop )
  • borkbork Brest, Belarus Join Date: 2018-08-10 Member: 242760Members Posts: 34 Advanced user
    edited November 19
    Thank you for the answers

    Comment:

    9. instant kill for mines
    there's the explosives who requires detonation and denotator (as we see mine who blows when alien nearby - scan-detonator). otherwise mine will blow up when marine jump on it. if detonator removed - you can take this "dangerous" plasticine and drop in the wall and nothing happens. if democharge is vulnerable for bites, shocks and falls - it will detonate when being dropped on the ground (if marine has been killed). it means this mines use plasticine and detonator and can be disarmed until detonator become on. in ns1 i used this possibility to disarm mine, what placed directly in front of me, when am waiting in vent.


    10. getting dropped ammo
    idea originally from discord channel not from me directly.
    if comm spent all res or working on the hive with other team (arcs, armory, support) and we have to kill some res with two shotguns. or more - the problem shows self when you redropping weapon until soldier getting location. anyone see weapon and walks on it, getting all my ammo, then i have two weapons without ammo - redropped one and my. even if i 5 sec ago asking ammo from commander.

    12-13. defend order
    just make the order of defending available to drop on the ground and remove clearing the order when reach location. sometimes i need guys to send constant order to defend. would be good to show defend icon on the minimap too and if the order will stay until i remove it manually. am sure. you cant even select defend and drop it on ground. you need object to assign defense order like resource tower, building and even marine.

    14. moving eggs after start evolving
    problem spotted on eclipse while i try to evolve gorge on core hive (with shade) and marines getting in. i found sneaky position and when i click evolve - my egg was moved to free space directly in front of marine. he step on me, i lost cloaking and lost the resources. what if the onos?

    I) egg is a building
    understand. then egg is a building-like to prevent spawn killing from hmg. maybe ok. strange only that the lmg player can be more dangerous for eggs than hmg one. game convention.

    III. web placement requires the line
    for 3 i mean - you need direct visible line between two web nodes. if you drop one web on the ground, and then you moving backwards and see ladder, what going down - the place where you threw the web turns out to be taller than you and the stairs are stopping you - you cant drop the web - second build point will be "red" (unavailable). will be good if the web will be created on the ground from one point to other point. if the object prevents you to build the web - same behavior like now - red point. only for ground webs (i think will be very difficult to make web, what which is laid on any objects along their edges). i just tried to drop webs to marine who follow me and everytime something break line. ladder, crate, corner... something everytime stops me.

    IV. auto-dropping webs
    yes, i mean exactly autocreating webs between dropped ones. if gorge uses 6 vents in same locations - you will get nice network because there will be 12*12 webs, what can easily killed only by grenade / flamer. you can try do it with axe but... want you to spent 3 minutes?

    VII. tips
    just add header and more space for the tip. possible add an icon, because this tip can teach the players, they MUST remember tips (good that your tips does not contain something like "press W to move forward"). i mean tips should help to explain while player have time for read it. even time between death and spawn. but this time should be used to open minimap. we have only map loading :( but still very hard to explain what is "prepare to protect res node" and "find the second unit to work together" especially for fast aliens. pro players show to rookies how play alone, and they trying same. until get 1000hrs player should find at least one mate before get away from protected point :( I can not explain because I speak English badly. and if I learn, it turns out that they do not speak. I mean it should be in the client in their language and icon that force guys to remember.

    IX) welder clear bile effect
    you right, damn i thought only about gorge rush to stop alien insta-win effect. there should be another solution. The building, what clears contamination / spores / umbra thing only? you could place in on main base and near your phasegate. but you cant carry it with exos - exo should get back and spent some time. as a bonus - prevents lose if 2nd hive up until advanced armory is up (lerks dangerous to marines on hive 1, and after spores they start ownage)

    X) muconous shield - i deal 3200 damage to onos and he has full hitpoints
    yes. press 1 on your keyboard to select bound drifter and then D-Click-D-Click-D-Click to save your onos constantly... will test it vs group of marines, maybe it works only vs one exo. if drifter will get in future ability to follow alien like mac, this shield will get advanced power. i think - simple time-delay will solve. maybe it should be heal speed bonus, no more (x2 to every heal wave until shield active).

    ==
    other points understand.
    Post edited by bork on
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 366 Advanced user
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    B.

    Yes.. Fucking GL's are awful right now. The amount of times I backstab a GL with my skulk and get like 3 free bites in, and he just 180's and instagibs me even though I'm literally up his ass... It's so stupid. And the random lerk instagibs from GL's is ridiculous as well.. Fair enough if you could actually see the projectile, but no can't even do that.

    Predicting / Dodging GLs feel random due to the high interp/ low tickrate / high ping... hopefully two of those can be adressed.

    GLs in close combat feel a bit random, because - yes - grenades bounce of skulks if a Marine shoots them from a to close range, BUT if the Grenade "lies down" on the ground (or in rare cases they can even get stuck on the model) after 0.X seconds they detonate if an Alien walks over it.
    I already complained a lot about it, but sadly improving that is harder than it looks :/
  • borkbork Brest, Belarus Join Date: 2018-08-10 Member: 242760Members Posts: 34 Advanced user
    edited November 20
    GL should be not used in close combat and "small" fines remember it.
    But fines is small enough to ignore it.

    But in long range cluster grenade is awesome for killing structures with combination of gas - you can push heavily built location.
    But with GL... hmm in ns2_eclipse you will win even in close combat. How about Falls in biodome? Yesterday i see 5 GLs trying to kill the gorge and dont listen recommendations to get damn gas... for 2 pres.

    gaming style with a shotgun, flamethrower or machine gun is obvious to everyone
    not obvious style of play with an axe, grenade launcher and hand-grenades, I mean for the players a lower level.

    I would be glad to give them all the grenades so that they quickly do the task, but I can't, I can only shout "please buy the damn grenades". They think - "i have GL, why i should get grenades? Am filled up with grenades, haha! AM the grenade!" - and then dies. But when high-tier team gets GLs - it remembers Rambo3. Fades, lerks, gorges - aliens in close rooms just disappering. And if i wont drop the armory - they still have problems with structures :) having team of GLs.

    Heck, I even have to try to shout up to them so that they throw grenades at the hive, and not behind/close to him, they also think that everything there explodes when they see damage number. But no, from the grenade launcher you can miss even if the grenade is a meter away from the hive.
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