Plot Holes and Contirvances

BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
Just watched an interesting Youtube critique of Subnautica by Joseph Anderson (thanks @YouSeeMe) who rates Subnautica as a kind of flawed diamond. I'd agree with that, but not always for the same reasons. But what I found most interesting was his list of the game's plot holes and contrivances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLsPoJWO-e8 (extreme spoiler alert)

Here's his list:

1. Coincidence of 4546B being the first Precursor planet found, despite their species numbering in the 100s of billions

2. Coincidence of crash location, safe from the abyss the comprises most of the planet, and conveniently right next to the quarantine enforcement platform

3. Why enzyme 43 is produced by only a single remaining individual Sea Emperor and its offspring?

4. The reluctance of the Sea Emperor to help the Precursors

5. Why the background levels Enzyme 42 (distributed by the peepers) is effective for local wildlife but not for Precursors or humans?

6. Why a quarantine enforcement gun shoots ships on arrival rather than departure?

7. Why the Degassi survivors needed to shelter in the seemingly more hostile deep?

8. The purpose of the Precursor museum

Some plausible explanations come to mind, and Joseph proposes a few good ones himself. Maybe these will be fleshed out in the Expansion, but I suspect he's right that some narrative content was left out of the game in the rush to finally release it. On the other hand, I wonder if it might not be a plus for a game's mystique to leave some things up to its players' conjectures?
0x6A7232

Comments

  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 459 Advanced user
    edited October 17
    Like @dasCKD, I have no intention on watching the video right now (there's simply too much information out there nowadays, yet I'm happy you found some you're enjoying @BlueBottle, maybe when there's some spare time I'll give it a try).
    Also, I don't agree with all of dasCKD answers to the points listed above, which is fine. I believe good art is supposed to be subjective, although some of these can be objectively answered using arguments present in the game.

    This sentence was gold though:
    He judges it as a flawed diamond but I don't see the comparison. Media aren't gemstones, their value isn't in their lack of flaws but in the strength of their qualities.

    0x6A7232baronvonsatanRezca
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited October 17
    @dasCKD the 'flawed diamond' was my analogy, but one that seemed to fit with the tone of the JA's review. While it's a slight bummer to have a favourite game criticised, it did pique my curiosity about these questions.

    My thoughts:
    1. Coincidence of 4546B being the first Precursor planet found, despite their species numbering in the 100s of billions
    Precursors maybe warped-gated in from another galaxy to just a couple of our planets to do their bio-research. Another one being medieval Earth, as hinted at by the museum's contents.
    Why come all this way? Well, maybe they initially picked it up exploring this galaxy and came back this way to exploit any local resistances.

    2. Coincidence of crash location, safe from the abyss the comprises most of the planet, and conveniently right next to the quarantine enforcement platform
    Sure, some suspension of disbelief is always required for any sci-fi story. Nevertheless, JA suggests a nice narrative solution could have been a 'caretaker sentience' residing in the quarantine enforcement platform. One that draws in passing ships (via tractor beam?) in the hope of co-opting survivors to complete the bio-research. If successful, it can then resurrect the uploaded Precursor consciousnesses we know are stored on the planet.

    One of JA's best objections I missed out was Why is the blood sample of one cured human considered sufficient evidence that Kharraa is defeated and the quarantine can be lifted?
    The 'caretaker sentience' theory could account for this 'formality' once it sees the player done sufficient heavy lifting for the research to complete, and the Precursors to download.
    I like it. But if this was so, surely its presence would have been at least hinted at in the endgame?

    3. Why enzyme 43 is produced by only a single remaining individual Sea Emperor and its offspring?
    Yeah I think what you say is about right. Moreover this particular Sea Emperor specimen was likely at least partially the result of Precursor efforts, perhaps genetically engineering a line to concentrate Enzyme 42 with each generation - as evidenced by its offspring

    4. The reluctance of the Sea Emperor to help the Precursors
    I don't want to misquote the guy. He said the Sea Emperor first said that it was a communication problem, but it's later comments made it seem unwilling. Either way I'm fine with a Sea Dragon that either can't, or doesn't want to, communicate. I mean it was probably grumpy to say the least.

    5. Why the background levels Enzyme 42 (distributed by the peepers) is effective for local wildlife but not for Precursors or humans?
    Agree with you again. Also, if Kharaa is endemic to this planet/galaxy then we could expect these creatures to be much more resistant.

    6. Why a quarantine enforcement gun shoots ships on arrival rather than departure?
    Yeah, cruel but effective. Seems especially prudent if you consider what a great WMD Kharra could be, if exploited by certain enterprising visitors.

    7. Why the Degasi survivors needed to shelter in the seemingly more hostile deep?
    I think JA's quite reasonably points out some of the reasons the Degasi crew give seem flawed. How can the surface be more hostile when the have all the tech to survive at great depth?
    His own theory is they may have been rationalising an impulse to go deeper that was implanted by partial Sea Emperor communications. That's much nicer than my own well worn theory that the Torgals were industrial spies covering their tracks from Alterra, using a bunch of confected PDA recordings.

    8. The purpose of the Precursor museum
    This is a horse I've flogged to death in another thread. But seems to me it holds all the tools/samples used by a small team of bio-tech field researchers.
    As for your closing comment, I think solid narrative doesn't require the big cash investments the way other game assets do. So why not have it?
    But I also wonder if the missing pieces actually work for a game like this - one that seems to be unfolding in a series of expansions?
    Post edited by BlueBottle on
    MaalterommdasCKD
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 459 Advanced user
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    As for your closing comment, I think solid narrative doesn't require the big cash investments the way other game assets do. So why not have it?
    But I also wonder if the missing pieces actually work for a game like this - one that seems to be unfolding in a series of expansions?

    Allowing the story to easily fit several expansions is a big plus.
    But also, open narratives allow the player to build their own assumptions and gives plenty of room for the fans to discuss about possibilities. Personally, I love games (books, movies) that allow me to do so.
    Very strict narratives make mistakes far more apparent and, even if it feels like it doesn't cost as much, it needs a rigorous revision process to avoid inconsistencies and loopholes which wouldn't be necessary otherwise.
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    Maalteromm wrote: »
    Allowing the story to easily fit several expansions is a big plus.
    But also, open narratives allow the player to build their own assumptions and gives plenty of room for the fans to discuss about possibilities. Personally, I love games (books, movies) that allow me to do so.
    Very strict narratives make mistakes far more apparent and, even if it feels like it doesn't cost as much, it needs a rigorous revision process to avoid inconsistencies and loopholes which wouldn't be necessary otherwise.

    Sounds fair enough. But I admit I'll feel disappointed if all these threads are just left hanging as the series unfolds.
  • lordoffilinglordoffiling Join Date: 2017-08-10 Member: 232342Members Posts: 44 Advanced user
    There are no plot holes in this list.

    There is nothing--and I mean nothing--that brings my blood to a boil more than amateur internet critics calling things plot holes, when they clearly have no idea what a plot hole is.

    For those who may not be sure themselves, a true plot hole is an irretrievable break in the logic of the story. It's when something happens that goes against the established narrative, for which there can be no reasonable explanation. (Good example: Ending of Mass Effect 3.)

    Contrivances? Mmmmmmaybe, but I'd say even that is a stretch. Contrivances need to have the quality of making the set-up seem artificial. I don't really get that feeling from anything presented in this list.
    RezcaSouthernGorillajamintheinfinite_1
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited October 18
    I should reiterate that I also love this game. More than a critique, I'm really just curious about what's going on here narrative wise.

    There are no plot holes in this list.... Contrivances? Mmmmmmaybe, but I'd say even that is a stretch. Contrivances need to have the quality of making the set-up seem artificial.

    This is the one I found most awkward. I forgot it, then put it in the revised list, so maybe you missed it:

    2.5: Why is the blood sample of one cured human considered sufficient evidence that Kharraa is defeated and the quarantine can be lifted?
    ....a true plot hole is an irretrievable break in the logic of the story

    He made a good suggestion to fill this hole. But if his suggestion is correct (a ghost in the machine, co-opting the player to facilitate the Precursors' return), it seems a bit of a stretch that the devs let us leave the planet without so much of a hint of it - considering what an epic cliff hanger that would have set up for the sequel.

    As a game design geek I guess I'm uncertain about:
    - what was intentional and planned
    - what was rushed together
    - what I'm reading into it that really isn't there at all
    Post edited by BlueBottle on
  • lordoffilinglordoffiling Join Date: 2017-08-10 Member: 232342Members Posts: 44 Advanced user
    edited October 18
    "Why is the blood sample of one cured human considered sufficient evidence that Kharraa is defeated and the quarantine can be lifted?"

    This isn't a plot hole either.

    The blood sample isn't sufficient evidence that Kharraa is defeated, but that isn't what it's checking for. All it's checking for is whether the person who hit the button is infected.

    The button you hit shuts the gun down by disconnecting the power to the entire platform. The whole facility goes dark. This suggests to me that this button is like an Emergency Off switch, which the Precursors would have an obvious need for. For example, if a ship was coming in that had, say, a cure aboard, they'd want a fast way to power down their weapon of mass destruction.
    RezcaSouthernGorilla
  • WintervoidWintervoid Join Date: 2018-10-18 Member: 244200Members Posts: 5 Fully active user
    Most of that stuff can be explained, as it has been above.

    The one that bothers me is this:

    MARGUERIT: No building materials... nothing left of the ship... And your kid says we're gonna starve without more growbeds. Speak up, kid.

    BART: It's true, father. The natural growth rates are too slow to keep supporting us.

    I can survive indefinitely off 1-2 Bulbo trees. In a sub. With no natural light and no new soil. I am pretty sure they did not have a problem with food or water on the island.
    SouthernGorilla
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    Emergency Off switch … if a ship was coming in that had, say, a cure aboard, they'd want a fast way to power down their weapon of mass destruction. .

    Doesn't seem quite right to me. If so, wouldn't an infected Precursor be the one most qualified to operate the Off Switch?

    My feeling is the glorious OTT design of the massive gun signals:
    'When this disease gets out of hand the hardware is taking over and nothing organic leaves, or even visits, this planet'.

    The narrative problem is how to allow the player to plausibly leave the planet anyway. I'm not sure the game it achieves this, but I'm hoping there's more to the story.

    Of course many players won't give two hoots. But that's cool too.





  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited October 18
    Wintervoid wrote: »
    The one that bothers me is this:

    MARGUERIT: No building materials... nothing left of the ship... And your kid says we're gonna starve without more growbeds. Speak up, kid.

    BART: It's true, father. The natural growth rates are too slow to keep supporting us.

    I can survive indefinitely off 1-2 Bulbo trees. In a sub. With no natural light and no new soil. I am pretty sure they did not have a problem with food or water on the island.

    Yeah I thought about this too. Along with the absence of the hellish weather that defeated their habitats (normally able to withstand many atmospheres of pressure). I mean it's always so nice sunny and lush on beautiful 4546B.

    I guessed maybe the planet experiences wildly radical seasonal changes (you know Winter is coming!) - perhaps due to a madly elliptical orbit. If so, a line about that from the PDA would have done much assuage the curious gamers. But admittedly, the whole agricultural mechanic is dodgy anyway (let's not go there).

    Personally I like the theory they were just losing the plot, perhaps under the misunderstood influences of the Sea Emperor. But there's no reason say the devs meant for that.
    0x6A7232
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 459 Advanced user
    Wintervoid wrote: »
    Most of that stuff can be explained, as it has been above.

    The one that bothers me is this:

    MARGUERIT: No building materials... nothing left of the ship... And your kid says we're gonna starve without more growbeds. Speak up, kid.

    BART: It's true, father. The natural growth rates are too slow to keep supporting us.

    I can survive indefinitely off 1-2 Bulbo trees. In a sub. With no natural light and no new soil. I am pretty sure they did not have a problem with food or water on the island.

    There was plenty of discussions on this a few years ago.
    I have always felt like farming was too op and suggested in these same forums that growbeds should require power, and not negligible power. These plants should need proper lighting, fresh water and nutrients.
    Requiring power would add to the base mechanics and would force the player to worry about either having extra power on their Cyclops or extra food.
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    Emergency Off switch … if a ship was coming in that had, say, a cure aboard, they'd want a fast way to power down their weapon of mass destruction. .

    Doesn't seem quite right to me. If so, wouldn't an infected Precursor be the one most qualified to operate the Off Switch?

    My feeling is the glorious OTT design of the massive gun signals:
    'When this disease gets out of hand the hardware is taking over and nothing organic leaves, or even visits, this planet'.

    The narrative problem is how to allow the player to plausibly leave the planet anyway. I'm not sure the game it achieves this, but I'm hoping there's more to the story.

    Of course many players won't give two hoots. But that's cool too.





    @BlueBottle, you seem to enjoy your parallel theories. Maybe here's a new flavor for you.

    The Precursors seems able to store their "minds" in computer hardware and, maybe, later restore it into a proper body.
    Given the bio-engineering behind the warpers, it is plausible to assume that their bodies might be designed to fit the role/environment in which it will function. Therefore they might have very diverse morphology/composition, down to the genetic level. Except for the part responsible for a powerful enough mind to store their vast memories/knowledge and to allow advanced acuity/reasoning.
    There's also evidence they came to Earth once, and very few creatures match the local primates on these qualities. Maybe cetaceans (the Precs do enjoy a swim).

    I suggest that Precursors did not just visit early humans. They engineered and studied them, along with several other things on Earth. After a while they left and let the humans be. Maybe they were still studying how a sapient species society evolves, when the Kharaa hit. Maybe they left for good, after getting what they came for.

    It doesn't matter, for they left mankind the sole trait that would allow them to interact with their tech and, who knows one day, bring them back.





    I'm still optimistic that Natural Selection III (or IV) will have three way battles between Humans, Kharaa and Dolphins. In 3D maps with regular ground combat and also underwater and space combat. Grand battles with vehicles and all. Weaponized Cyclops dropping battle Exosuits down into enemy abyss, Fades that turn into Warpers by diving into water, a Telepathic Cetacean Officer leading a pack of Lazer Sharks in space suits.
    Awesome
    Rezca
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    Maalteromm wrote: »
    @BlueBottle, you seem to enjoy your parallel theories. Maybe here's a new flavor for you....

    Yeah, I'm always sucker for all those transferred consciousness sci-fi plots. Human genome tinkering by ancient aliens? Yes please, serve me up some of that too.

    But it what's the devs have/had in mind is what really piqued my curiosity. Anyway, all tasty brainfood.
  • RezcaRezca United States Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Members Posts: 1,022 Advanced user
    edited October 20
    Maalteromm wrote: »
    Wintervoid wrote: »
    Most of that stuff can be explained, as it has been above.

    The one that bothers me is this:

    MARGUERIT: No building materials... nothing left of the ship... And your kid says we're gonna starve without more growbeds. Speak up, kid.

    BART: It's true, father. The natural growth rates are too slow to keep supporting us.

    I can survive indefinitely off 1-2 Bulbo trees. In a sub. With no natural light and no new soil. I am pretty sure they did not have a problem with food or water on the island.

    There was plenty of discussions on this a few years ago.
    I have always felt like farming was too op and suggested in these same forums that growbeds should require power, and not negligible power. These plants should need proper lighting, fresh water and nutrients.
    Requiring power would add to the base mechanics and would force the player to worry about either having extra power on their Cyclops or extra food.

    I always passed that off as "Gameplay and Story Segregation" myself. Would any of us really be willing to engage in farming if it took (at earliest) in-game weeks for a single fruit to grow? If they actually grew as fast as they do in-game even in the story, then that'd definitely come off as Marg making flimsy excuses to go deeper underwater (or trying to like, go fishing or something to make up for what the vegetation can't)

    The plants grow quickly enough to support us in the game and be fun to engage in, but if they slowed it down to realistic growth speeds we'd be dealing with the same problem the Degasi crew were dealing with. All these growbeds and they're taking way too long to be worth it from a gameplay standpoint.
    A Great Jaggi under the sea~

  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    Me, I'd be happier if you just needed to farm beneath glass in reasonable light conditions. With poo.
  • WintervoidWintervoid Join Date: 2018-10-18 Member: 244200Members Posts: 5 Fully active user
    I wish that there was a mod that slowed down grow times by a factor of 10 or so and/or reduced how much water you can get out of Bulbous Trees. Or maybe require all indoor plants to require 1 bottle of water to plant. As is, the water purifier is pretty useless in most cases.
    BlueBottle
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited October 23
    Good farming mod ideas. I'd also add that it only allow growth inside the two glass compartments where it's well lit. Say, at less than 100m.

    That would add the other reactor types to the water purifier as things worthwhile building.

    (In case there's some modder interest I might port this topic into a new thread).
  • LavLav Minsk, Belarus Join Date: 2018-06-18 Member: 241524Members Posts: 26 Advanced user
    Guess I'll elaborate on a couple of points.
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    2. Coincidence of crash location, safe from the abyss the comprises most of the planet, and conveniently right next to the quarantine enforcement platform
    Actually, this one is explained - the captain did aim for a controlled landing near a detected landmass, and there aren't many landmasses on the 4546B, so the chances to choose the one landmass with a QEP on it are quite high.
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    5. Why the background levels Enzyme 42 (distributed by the peepers) is effective for local wildlife but not for Precursors or humans?
    Could be the difference between absorbing the enzyme directly via gills or indirectly via digestive system. Pretty sure nobody who tried to absorb the enzyme directly in sufficient amounts (i.e. breathing water for a prolonged period of time) did ever die of Kharaa infection. :-)
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    7. Why the Degassi survivors needed to shelter in the seemingly more hostile deep?
    They had to move below the sea level because the floating island is devoid of resources, as everyone who tried to build a base there knows. :-)

    Afterwards, they were moving along the same trail of evidence that the player does - they just didn't get far enough fast enough. If they managed to explore the Lost River and find the research facility, the story could be very different. Unfortunately, they probably never visited the QEP, and thus never knew for sure that there is indeed something important in the Lost River caves. All they had was vague sensor readings that the Bart speaks of, but nothing tangible to persuade the rest of the team to explore more aggressively.
    BlueBottle0x6A7232
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    It's kind of strange that none of what the OP mentions from the video in question is really a plot hole or any more of a contrivance than what you would fins, as pointed out already, in any other book, movie, or game. Yet there is no mention of things that are genuine contrivances which exist only to make the game more "challenging".

    1) Plot Hole-- A tablet programmed to "keep you alive on a hostile world" but which forces you to swim around the hostile world collecting blueprints to build things you need to survive. Even the "multipurpose room" which, by its very name, seems like a critical survival item isn't included in standard survival blueprints? But glass hallways are?

    2) Plot Hole-- Life pods are capable of transmitting coordinates. There is some sort of GPS technology which the PDA can access. But you have to place beacons if you want to find a location again rather than simply adding a waypoint to the PDA.

    3) A game that will never have multiplayer not only has a 3-man vehicle but also forces you to build it just to get a component you need for the endgame.

    4) "Weapons were removed...."-- "Aliens" would have been a very short movie with that philosophy.

    5) Strange vehicle mod overlaps. How in the world does a sonar system take up the space you might otherwise use for added cargo capacity? It's like telling me I can't put GPS in my SUV because I already have a roof rack.

    6) Four different fabrication devices to win the game? The fabricator, the mobile vehicle bay, the modification station, and the Cyclops upgrade fabricator. I didn't count the scanner room fabricator because you can win the game without a scanner room.

    Most of these are the sort of thing you'd find in any game. Studios have finite resources and want to get a product out the door in a realistic timeframe (except CIG) so they have to say "good enough" at some point. It's kind of silly to single out Subnautica as being flawed for doing something that every game does.
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited November 4
    Yeah I'd agree all those points seem kind fussy. To be fair though, none of those concerns were mentioned in the video. Cheers

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

  • jamintheinfinite_1jamintheinfinite_1 Jupiter Join Date: 2016-12-03 Member: 224524Members Posts: 1,024 Advanced user
    edited November 5
    It's kind of strange that none of what the OP mentions from the video in question is really a plot hole or any more of a contrivance than what you would fins, as pointed out already, in any other book, movie, or game. Yet there is no mention of things that are genuine contrivances which exist only to make the game more "challenging".

    1) Plot Hole-- A tablet programmed to "keep you alive on a hostile world" but which forces you to swim around the hostile world collecting blueprints to build things you need to survive. Even the "multipurpose room" which, by its very name, seems like a critical survival item isn't included in standard survival blueprints? But glass hallways are?

    2) Plot Hole-- Life pods are capable of transmitting coordinates. There is some sort of GPS technology which the PDA can access. But you have to place beacons if you want to find a location again rather than simply adding a waypoint to the PDA.

    3) A game that will never have multiplayer not only has a 3-man vehicle but also forces you to build it just to get a component you need for the endgame.

    4) "Weapons were removed...."-- "Aliens" would have been a very short movie with that philosophy.

    5) Strange vehicle mod overlaps. How in the world does a sonar system take up the space you might otherwise use for added cargo capacity? It's like telling me I can't put GPS in my SUV because I already have a roof rack.

    6) Four different fabrication devices to win the game? The fabricator, the mobile vehicle bay, the modification station, and the Cyclops upgrade fabricator. I didn't count the scanner room fabricator because you can win the game without a scanner room.

    Most of these are the sort of thing you'd find in any game. Studios have finite resources and want to get a product out the door in a realistic timeframe (except CIG) so they have to say "good enough" at some point. It's kind of silly to single out Subnautica as being flawed for doing something that every game does.
    There have been two reasons as two why blueprints are missing on the PDA. the first reason is outdated while the 2nd one is the current one.

    Outdated reason: originally the reason was because some idiot failed to do their job and make sure the PDAs weren't on vanilla. Because they were on vanilla things like the multipurpose room weren't in the blueprints by default. This was most likely changed as the log stating this also mentions events from the Natural Selections games, hinting that Subnautica was originally intended to take place at the same time as the Natrual Selection games before being made a prequel to them all.


    Current reason: The PDA gets corrupted causing you to loose many blueprints. It says so at the start of the game in one of the starting data banks. About 80% of stored blueprints got corrupted
    I am TerranHawk I am also that one guy who post bad pictures and doesn't talk much in school. I am lazy. I'm the creator of this Creature Evolution Chart

    I live in the Subnautica side of the forums. IF you have seen me you probably know I suk at speling log wrods and that I'm very sarcastic and don't take things seriously unless called for


    I'm called jamintheinfinite_1 because I was an idiot and made a typo on my email address for the account jamintheinfinite and I was too dumb to know how to fix it.




    s̮̮͇̲̱̻͕͈̠ͪ͐̇̾͒̀͌i̖͈͚̘͈̐̀̈́̃̒̇̀͊ͧ̔̏͒ͅḿ͎͉̜̦̦͓̟̞͗̇͒ͨ̏͌̑ͨͬͬͧͭͥo̩̞̰̮̞̮̼̫̩̳̘͆ͯͣ̓̍͆ͣ̎ͫ͂ͪṅ͖̪̫̘̼̙̪̙̳̰̊̒͋͗ͪͥ̅̑ͤ̆̅ͬͥ̑ͫ ̲̳̟̰̭̖̞͓̙̘͓͔̣͇ͭͥ̂̎̋́͂̋̈́̌͐ͤͨ̀̐̂ͦi͍̫͔̟̰͖͚̫͎̞͚͌ͤ̀͗ͥ͐̂̓ͧs̭͈͙̱̹̬͓̦̝͔̘̼̤͍͎̞̥̎̅̉͛ͦ͒̇͛̎ͬͨ́̍͒̀ͦͅͅ ͙̱̖̳̻͚̳̘̯̲͚̭̟͎̩̤͔̼̩̈́ͤ̋ͪ̿͛ͤͥ̅̒̆̉̓̒̓̅̈̈́̉t̖̞͓̥̤̪̯̘͓͌ͨͮͮͅh̰̙̮̖̆ͬ̎ͫ̿̽̾͋͗̍ͪ͑̀e̳̟̭͇ͤ̃͊̀ͤ̅ͫ̅̒ ̰̗͔̟̼̺̫̲͍̯̥̼͚̦̜̯̣̇̀̅̂̋ͧͦ̊ͥͮ͛̾͐̌͆̔́̎͋ͅb͍̣̲͇͙̞̘̰̫̪̖͔̈̅̃ͬͬḙ͖̠̬͇̦̰̪̟͊̀͐̍̾̓̊s̬͍͈̲̦̥͉̦̼̥͕͍̲̝ͪͬ͆͆͛ͩ̎̓̊̐͗̿̾̊̊t̪͉̝͖̫̼̤̼̩̰ͧ̐̽̋̈́̉̏̃́




  • YouenYouen Join Date: 2018-11-07 Member: 244567Members Posts: 1 Freshly registered user
    The thing that bothers me the most, is that you can generate power with a single thermal plant in a hot area. The very principles of thermodynamic are that to get power, you need a hot AND a cold source. The process of generating power then necessarily lets heat flow from the hot to the cold source (so there need to be some external input to the system to maintain both sources at their different temperatures). Could even have been a gameplay thing ; you'd need to place two buildings, and link them with a pipe, and the more temperature difference you'd have the more power would be generated.

    Likewise, how do vehicles remain cool for an unlimited duration while immersed in a hot area? They should heat up, slowly but surely, up to the ambient temperature, and that would kill the player (and not generate any power).

    But well, it's a fiction, it doesn't have to follow all the thermodynamic laws ;-)
    SouthernGorilla
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    Interesting all about the thermodynamics. When in doubt release the nanobots!

    Anyways, the reason I mentioned the vid was to try and figure out if some currently unexplained story events (not unexplainable) might hint at some of the backstory, we might see play out in the expansion. Or they might not.
    SouthernGorilla
  • SouthernGorillaSouthernGorilla United States Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232057Members Posts: 156 Advanced user
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    Yeah I'd agree all those points seem kind fussy. To be fair though, none of those concerns were mentioned in the video. Cheers

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    No strawman. I was listing genuine contrivances that could have been used instead of the weak ones in the video.
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    The plot isn't perfect and definitely has its flaws, but the main points (being shot down by an alien gun and needing to find a way to disable it and build an escape vehicle) are sensible enough for a scifi survival game even if some of the other aspects don't make too much sense if examined in detail.

    However, the disconnect between the technology level of the game and how many of the game mechanics are implemented is a real immersion breaker for me.

    We've got scifi tech and materials, but for arbitrary Reasons have very poor, clunky methods for handling hostile fauna. The survivor could tell the fabricator to make a knife, metal rod and some cord and then make a spear which would be a more effective weapon than pretty much anything else in the game, but we can't for those same Reasons (which is incredibly sad).

    The whole balance of energy is just wrong on so many levels. Solar panels and thermal plants are hugely OP, nuclear reactors are just sad. Nearly everything (except oxygen generation and base lighting) uses FAR too much energy (especially water purification). Overall it feels like the devs arbitrary picked a bunch of values without taking some time to think about how they could tie them in with RL physics. The game describes an ion power crystal as containing the same amount of energy as a small nuclear explosion, which does not line up at all with any of the other energy generation/usage numbers in the game (except maybe their completely wrong "nuclear reactor" numbers).

    Good scifi needs more than just shiny tech, it needs consistency and logic behind it which this game really lacks (and is a major pet peeve of mine).
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