Marine endgame tech - God Bombs

MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,557 mod
In NS2 atm, neither aliens nor marines have a clear end game. They only have mid game+, after they run out of things to research.
End game tech should change how the game needs to be played. In the mid game, the marines play a game focused on attrition and chipping away at lifeforms. In this late game, with God bombs, the marines would need to play a game focused on building devices behind the alien front line & in other key locations.

God bombs are buildable devices that would need to be researched individually and sit at the end of each tech tree. Each one would cost 20 tres to research at the prototype lab, then 20 tres to drop. After one has been built, the comm can detonate it, causing a powerful AoE effect.

Some examples:
Some endgame tech for the marines:
After Weapons 3 -The Hades Device (<3 @Nin): a structure that the comm can detonate to cause a big boom<br> After Armor 3 - The Zeus Device: a structure that the comm can detonate to give nanoshield to everything within its AoE.
-/AUS/- PS_Mouse
NintendowsIeptBarakatNordicskav2Stark.trixX.

Comments

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,670 Advanced user
    edited September 2018
    Lame boring idea on par with contaminate.

    I also think that marines have game ending tech, at least in a way that aliens really do not. Arcs, exo's, gl/jp rushes. Marines have multiple options to end the game easily. I wish it happened faster, but still, they have at least functional game ending tech unlike aliens.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    The_Welsh_WizardNintendowsStark
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,557 mod
    Nordic wrote: »
    I also think that marines have game ending tech, at least in a way that aliens really do not. Arcs, exo's, gl/jp rushes. Marines have multiple options to end the game easily. I wish it happened faster, but still, they have at least functional game ending tech unlike aliens.

    The suggestion is less about giving the marines game ending tech, and more about giving the marine endgame a character that distinguishes it from the mid game. So that when marine endgame tech starts coming out, both sides need to start playing in a slightly different way, with slightly different priorities.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 760 Advanced user
    I would rather see the upgradeable Cats / Nanoshield idea by Kash than these devices. Just because I believe they are much better for gameplay while at the same time are similar to what you suggest.

    Marines should always be forced to attack a Hive heads on, simply because they are the ranged class and thus must be the ones moving into dangerous close quarter combat territory. Otherwise you promote boring camping scenarios. This is also why I am not a too big fan of ARCs because they promote marines playing defensively, but that's another topic.
    Building devices and defending them also falls into that category. It is like taking that lame end game turtling marines scenario and putting it into another scenario.

    Also, while Comm abilities are fun for both the Commander (because he can actively influence combat) and the marine (being in direct combat while getting support abilities), those devices are nothing more than "plant it, then activate it".

    I believe the emphasis should be on player combat, not on structure combat.
    Starkskav2jrgn
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 330 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Lame boring idea on par with contaminate.

    I also think that marines have game ending tech, at least in a way that aliens really do not. Arcs, exo's, gl/jp rushes. Marines have multiple options to end the game easily. I wish it happened faster, but still, they have at least functional game ending tech unlike aliens.

    At least with the hades device, marines need to build it and aliens can just attack it during the arming time to stop any damage from occuring. Contaminate deals instant bile bomb damage and can be spawned anywhere even if the entire alien team is dead. And can be repeated every 4 seconds.
    G_LockMouse
  • StarkStark Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186336Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 32 Advanced user
    Mechanics that promote static and defensive behavior make this game boring and unfun. For example, phasegates are useful but people love to phase once and then camp. Advantages turn into stalemates, the game slows down, and then blah. This game is about quick, decisive plays where player(s) skill SHOULD decide the outcome.. Sentries, arcs (arguable), stomp, xenocide, exo trains, big bombs... they are lame. You can feel the game become boring as these techs come out.

    I understand the role these kinds of tech are trying to fill - help a team end the game it’s already won. But there has got to be a better way to tip the balance of power quickly. I like the idea of creating “advanced” versions of existing upgrades, to increase base damage, armor, range, etc. by some multiple. Aliens get three hives? Maybe they can unlock upgrades that increase health and/damage, creating the late-game equivalent of trying to fight fades with weapons 0 rifles. But we need less experiences like: *rolls dice*, sorry even though you jumped stomp hit you through that wall and knocked you to the ground.

    NordicThe_Welsh_Wizardskav2
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    God Bombs? That sounds like something for that mod concept Intelligent Design, anyone here remember that one?

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
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  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 330 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    God Bombs? That sounds like something for that mod concept Intelligent Design, anyone here remember that one?

    We don't speak of intelligent things here. Only ideas and suggestions :p
    Kouji_SanNordic
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 797 Advanced user
    "Pack up boys, we are glassing this rock from orbit with high yield nukes!"
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,670 Advanced user
    edited September 2018
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    Lame boring idea on par with contaminate.

    I also think that marines have game ending tech, at least in a way that aliens really do not. Arcs, exo's, gl/jp rushes. Marines have multiple options to end the game easily. I wish it happened faster, but still, they have at least functional game ending tech unlike aliens.

    At least with the hades device, marines need to build it and aliens can just attack it during the arming time to stop any damage from occuring. Contaminate deals instant bile bomb damage and can be spawned anywhere even if the entire alien team is dead. And can be repeated every 4 seconds.

    This only makes it worse because it slows down the game and makes marines defensive at the location of the hades device.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Nintendows
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    God Bombs? That sounds like something for that mod concept Intelligent Design, anyone here remember that one?

    We don't speak of intelligent things here. Only ideas and suggestions :p

    Smartass :trollface:

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,557 mod
    Nordic wrote: »
    This only makes it worse because it slows down the game and makes marines defensive at the location of the hades device.

    A location that will necessarily be at forward position in alien territory, perhaps even a hive, requiring them to make an offensive push.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
    NintendowsG_Lock
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 330 Advanced user
    edited September 2018
    Yeah. Marines being defensive next to the alien hive isn't exactly slowing the game down.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited September 2018
    If you wanted game ending impact from the next room couldn't you just nerf ink cloud so arcs aren't being countered?
    The_Welsh_WizardNintendows
  • jrgnjrgn Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58289Members Posts: 128 Advanced user
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