Solution to Subnautica's non-violence

BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
Critiques of Subnautica's non-violence regularly resurface in these forums. I guess that's understandable. The game mechanic of mass-murder is now so widespread that its absence can seem a little perverse or abnormal to traditional players. And I too have shouldered the burden of heavy weaponry when came to holding back the zombie apocalypse.

Don't worry though, a solution is at hand. Simply purchase any first person game on Steam at random, and roughly 95% of the time you'll get just the proven blood-soaked game mechanic you're hankering for. Once fully engaged in glorious destruction you will probably still experience only the slightest nagging concern over perverse gamers elsewhere messing about with stealth, evasion, and other deviant lateral thinking.

Come the long awaited post-apocalypse you will probably be vindicated. Meanwhile check out the current Steam sale specials, there's some really cool stuff you'd like in there!
I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
SnailsAttack.trixX.Reefseeker

Comments

  • AnomalyDetectedAnomalyDetected Alterra Housing District: Planet Vicaron Join Date: 2017-04-19 Member: 229741Members Posts: 750 Advanced user
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    Critiques of Subnautica's non-violence regularly resurface in these forums. I guess that's understandable. The game mechanic of mass-murder is now so widespread that its absence can seem a little perverse or abnormal to traditional players. And I too have shouldered the burden of heavy weaponry when came to holding back the zombie apocalypse.

    Don't worry though, a solution is at hand. Simply purchase any first person game on Steam at random, and roughly 95% of the time you'll get just the proven blood-soaked game mechanic you're hankering for. Once fully engaged in glorious destruction you will probably still experience only the slightest nagging concern over perverse gamers elsewhere messing about with stealth, evasion, and other deviant forms of lateral thinking.

    Come the long awaited post-apocalypse you will probably be vindicated. Meanwhile check out the current Steam sale specials, there's some really cool stuff you'd like in there!

    If they want Gunplay, NS2 is by UWE, so that's a good place to start.

    If they want what Subnautica is really about, which is exploration and evasion, they're in the right place.
    ================Anomaly================
    "Life is a game,
    which the universe plays with itself."

    Well said, Jochi Khasar. Well said.
    ================Anomaly================
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    edited September 17
    @AnomalyDetected. On a related topic I bought Breathedge today. Early access, but so far I'd agree with reviews describing it as a potential 'Subnautica in space'.
    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,759 Advanced user
    The Repulsion Cannon wants a word with these claims about nonviolence :trollface:

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

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    Rezca
  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;) Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Members Posts: 1,176 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    The Repulsion Cannon wants a word with these claims about nonviolence :trollface:

    *Proceeds to violently push everyone into the stratosphere.*
    I've been skulking around here for almost four years.

    Yet I still have no idea what's going on.
    Kouji_SanRezca
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,759 Advanced user
    Skope wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    The Repulsion Cannon wants a word with these claims about nonviolence :trollface:

    *Proceeds to violently push everyone into the stratosphere.*

    Where there is a will, shit gets launched!

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    Rezca
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    Skope wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    The Repulsion Cannon wants a word with these claims about nonviolence :trollface:

    *Proceeds to violently push everyone into the stratosphere.*

    That good? You must have a big really one!
    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 307 Advanced user
    edited September 19
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have nothing against developers choosing to create nonviolent games (I love Kerbal Space Program), and I applaud those developers who don't rely on violence as a crutch to build excellent games.

    However, I honestly don't feel like the Subnautica devs did a good job on this front. For all their talk about protesting gun violence by not including guns in the game, we still have a Stasis Rifle, Propulsion/Repulsion Cannon, and Gas/Vortex Torpedoes. Sure, in all cases these have been nerfed into oblivion so it's more effective to kill things using knives, drills, exploding fish, electroshock defense systems, and blunt force trauma, but violence is still very much a core part of the game, we just have to be more creative about it.

    If the devs had built gameplay systems that actually provided effective nonviolent methods of dealing with hostile creatures that couldn't otherwise be avoided I would be much more favorable on this front. As it stands though, killing hostile creatures is still often the most effective way to deal with them, and the game largely feels just like any other survival game out there, with this one being slanted more towards the survival horror genre due to the lack of effective methods of dealing with threats.

    I think this identity crisis might be why this topic keeps popping up, since for me at least it's pretty obvious the core game was designed (quite possibly unintentionally given the dev's other game projects) around the player having some sort of weaponry (or other methods) to properly deal with threats which simply isn't there, making the game feel unfinished and half-baked given how close to the core gameplay this is. That said, I have (mostly) enjoyed my time with Subnautica, but this issue is a sore point for me (as you've probably guessed).

    Hopefully the devs will be able to better resolve this in Below Zero. I'm not asking them to add weapons, merely to rethink how the player manages threats so they have more options than avoidance or tediously killing things with inefficient makeshift weapons. Maybe something like a handheld sonic stunner that stuns and scares smaller hostiles away, and force fields for bases to create safe zones in otherwise dangerous areas.

    So in the spirit of the OP, here's some of my solutions for the current game. If you actually want a proper nonviolent exploration game, go play something like Abzu. If you want guns in Subnautica, go install mods like this one: https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/145. If you want to play a shooter, like the OP said, get a shooter. This game looks like it could be a lot of fun: https://store.steampowered.com/app/254370/Aquanox_Deep_Descent/.
    Post edited by gamer1000k on
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 474 Advanced user
    @gamer1000k
    If the devs had built gameplay systems that actually provided effective nonviolent methods of dealing with hostile creatures that couldn't otherwise be avoided I would be much more favorable on this front. As it stands though, killing hostile creatures is still often the most effective way to deal with them
    I don't get it.
    Never have I felt the need to kill anything in this game. And I have many hundreds of hours in it.
    Not a single leviathan died in all this time. I rarely built torpedoes (did it once to check it out), but never got to effectively use it.

    I agree with you that the game "weaponry" feels kinda off. I would have simply removed most of them from the game and reworked the remaining few. There aren't any threats that require those. And I believe Leviathans should be unkillable.

    Rezca
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 307 Advanced user
    Maalteromm wrote: »
    @gamer1000k
    If the devs had built gameplay systems that actually provided effective nonviolent methods of dealing with hostile creatures that couldn't otherwise be avoided I would be much more favorable on this front. As it stands though, killing hostile creatures is still often the most effective way to deal with them
    I don't get it.
    Never have I felt the need to kill anything in this game. And I have many hundreds of hours in it.
    Not a single leviathan died in all this time. I rarely built torpedoes (did it once to check it out), but never got to effectively use it.

    I agree with you that the game "weaponry" feels kinda off. I would have simply removed most of them from the game and reworked the remaining few. There aren't any threats that require those. And I believe Leviathans should be unkillable.

    Leviathans are rare enough that they're generally not a problem (except for that blasted sea dragon leviathan in the active lava zone which I believe is actually unkillable), I'm thinking more in terms of the warpers, bonesharks, crabsnakes and crabsquid. Very aggressive and relatively common, and like to hang around story-important areas where they really can't be avoided. Hurting/freezing them barely scares them off for a few seconds, so it's either dash past them and grab what you need or stand and fight so you can explore in peace once they're dead since they won't otherwise leave you alone.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,759 Advanced user
    Even with them there, they are hardly a threat if at all, unless you've got zero situational awareness...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
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    Rezca
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 307 Advanced user
    edited September 20
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Even with them there, they are hardly a threat if at all, unless you've got zero situational awareness...

    Sure, they may not do enough damage to be a real threat (especially if you're carrying a few medpacks), but in many cases it's still worth taking them out just so they're not constantly annoying/interrupting you with nibbling/grab locks/EMP shocks/warping you out of vehicles. There's no way to mitigate these behaviors other than avoidance (which isn't always possible) so the only other solutions are to dash past them and heal/repair as necessary, or take them out.

    What I would like to see are methods to (even temporarily) mitigate these threats so that players can choose to do a bit of preparation and be able to avoid being constantly hassled by these things. Maybe something along the lines of scanning them and finding that they avoid certain chemical signatures (reaper pheromones?) and then being able to synthesize the repellent to temporarily cause them to avoid you. This in turn would allow the threats to be more dangerous since there would be a way to mitigate the danger with appropriate preparation.

    I know this is all late to the party now that the base game has been long-since released, but like I said hopefully this will inspire the devs to rethink the creature interactions in the expansion and make them more interesting instead of just choosing between avoiding, ignoring/tanking, or killing hostile creatures.
    MaalterommBlueBottle
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 474 Advanced user
    gamer1000k wrote: »
    What I would like to see are methods to (even temporarily) mitigate these threats so that players can choose to do a bit of preparation and be able to avoid being constantly hassled by these things. Maybe something along the lines of scanning them and finding that they avoid certain chemical signatures (reaper pheromones?) and then being able to synthesize the repellent to temporarily cause them to avoid you. This in turn would allow the threats to be more dangerous since there would be a way to mitigate the danger with appropriate preparation.
    That's a pretty good idea, adding more value to scanning creatures and additional mechanics that blend well with the game premises of avoiding confrontation.
    gamer1000kBlueBottle
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,759 Advanced user
    To be fair, the one that really annoyed me was the EMP squid

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

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  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    EMP squid. Turn off your lights and chuck a flare down on them from above them, no?
    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,759 Advanced user
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    EMP squid. Turn off your lights and chuck a flare down on them from above them, no?

    Yeah but who in this game actually has flares on them?

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    Rezca
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    Electric eels grieve me the most
    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
  • elfcrisiselfcrisis Join Date: 2017-05-13 Member: 230466Members Posts: 511 Advanced user
    Crabsquid are so easy to kill, I will usually do so whenever I see them. Once I have a stasis rifle, anyway. It's also fun running them over with a Cyclops. However, if I want to avoid them, I can do so easily.

    Any given creature makes so much noise you can get around them with little problem. Most of the time.

    It is not all that difficult to go the entire game without having to engage a hostile creature. I kill Reapers for the heck of it, not because I need to.

    @gamer1000k Sea Dragons are killable, but I think you have to use a regular knife. Lava Lizards seem to be immune to the heat blade, so I assume the dragons are, too. It's like, 250 strikes, though, so it's not really worth the time. But, again, they're avoidable, or you can get somewhere they can't follow you.
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    Uh, ok
    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 307 Advanced user
    edited September 22
    elfcrisis wrote: »
    Crabsquid are so easy to kill, I will usually do so whenever I see them. Once I have a stasis rifle, anyway. It's also fun running them over with a Cyclops. However, if I want to avoid them, I can do so easily.

    Any given creature makes so much noise you can get around them with little problem. Most of the time.

    It is not all that difficult to go the entire game without having to engage a hostile creature. I kill Reapers for the heck of it, not because I need to.

    @gamer1000k Sea Dragons are killable, but I think you have to use a regular knife. Lava Lizards seem to be immune to the heat blade, so I assume the dragons are, too. It's like, 250 strikes, though, so it's not really worth the time. But, again, they're avoidable, or you can get somewhere they can't follow you.

    I wasn't referring to the smaller sea dragons, but the one giant one that guards the entrance to the PCF. As far as I can tell, it's unkillable (although not immune to the almighty habitat builder physics glitching).
  • McBooMcBoo Join Date: 2017-05-15 Member: 230513Members Posts: 23 Advanced user
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have nothing against developers choosing to create nonviolent games (I love Kerbal Space Program), and I applaud those developers who don't rely on violence as a crutch to build excellent games.

    However, I honestly don't feel like the Subnautica devs did a good job on this front. For all their talk about protesting gun violence by not including guns in the game, we still have a Stasis Rifle, Propulsion/Repulsion Cannon, and Gas/Vortex Torpedoes. Sure, in all cases these have been nerfed into oblivion so it's more effective to kill things using knives, drills, exploding fish, electroshock defense systems, and blunt force trauma, but violence is still very much a core part of the game, we just have to be more creative about it.

    If the devs had built gameplay systems that actually provided effective nonviolent methods of dealing with hostile creatures that couldn't otherwise be avoided I would be much more favorable on this front. As it stands though, killing hostile creatures is still often the most effective way to deal with them, and the game largely feels just like any other survival game out there, with this one being slanted more towards the survival horror genre due to the lack of effective methods of dealing with threats.

    I think this identity crisis might be why this topic keeps popping up, since for me at least it's pretty obvious the core game was designed (quite possibly unintentionally given the dev's other game projects) around the player having some sort of weaponry (or other methods) to properly deal with threats which simply isn't there, making the game feel unfinished and half-baked given how close to the core gameplay this is. That said, I have (mostly) enjoyed my time with Subnautica, but this issue is a sore point for me (as you've probably guessed).

    Hopefully the devs will be able to better resolve this in Below Zero. I'm not asking them to add weapons, merely to rethink how the player manages threats so they have more options than avoidance or tediously killing things with inefficient makeshift weapons. Maybe something like a handheld sonic stunner that stuns and scares smaller hostiles away, and force fields for bases to create safe zones in otherwise dangerous areas.

    So in the spirit of the OP, here's some of my solutions for the current game. If you actually want a proper nonviolent exploration game, go play something like Abzu. If you want guns in Subnautica, go install mods like this one: https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/145. If you want to play a shooter, like the OP said, get a shooter. This game looks like it could be a lot of fun: https://store.steampowered.com/app/254370/Aquanox_Deep_Descent/. ire those. And I believe Leviathans should be unkillable.

    I am honestly stymied why folks feel the need for proper weapons in Subnautica. Save for the smaller species that can be used as food, there is nothing in the game mechanics that incentivizes killing any other creatures in the game. The larger dangerous creatures yield no resources that move you forward in the game. There's no real risk involved in attacking anything that can kill you as they run away after the slightest hint of damage. I have actually chased a reaper leviathan into the safe shallows with only the PDS on my Seamoth and a warper will teleport away after a single cut from the knife. Adding actual weapons just seems pointless and ill fitting.
    Rezca
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    edited September 22
    Some strategies for getting past the bitey critters sans the cannon. Pretty obvious these days, but I'd be interested to know what tricks I've missed:
    Crabsquid
    - Turn your lights off, get above them drop a flare, go about your business. If you really need your lights on, then make sure you're not within their horizontal shock zone

    Stalkers
    - Get above them, drop some wreckage, go about your business. Or if you need to hangout on their turf awhile maybe sacrifice scanner drones for them to play with, of if you're less generous drop a gravsphere on them.

    Crash fish
    - Equip Seaglide, provoke one, then run like a girl till it explodes (i.e. fast), return to destroy its nest with a knife. Fleeing towards the safety of your Seamoth not recommended.

    Warpers
    - If they're blocking a rift you want access to, get above them with the Seamoth. Ram at full speed so it warps away.

    Reaper Leviathan
    - In a Seamoth listen out for it's roar, shock it with perimeter defence when it seems to be right on your tail. Keep running.
    - In a Prawn, keep it in sight, if it grabs you punch it in the face till it drops you. Regret not packing your repair tool (Unsure if the drill arm works on them)
    - With the Seglide, roll up into the foetal position and embrace the Abyss

    Bonesharks
    - A little pre-emptive perimeter defence maybe

    Ampeel
    - Dunno, but doubt if perimeter defence works

    Crabsnakes
    - Dunno really. Stay low? Awkward when encountering one inside a jellyshroom

    Sandsharks
    - Dunno. Maybe gravshpere

    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 307 Advanced user
    edited September 22
    McBoo wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have nothing against developers choosing to create nonviolent games (I love Kerbal Space Program), and I applaud those developers who don't rely on violence as a crutch to build excellent games.

    However, I honestly don't feel like the Subnautica devs did a good job on this front. For all their talk about protesting gun violence by not including guns in the game, we still have a Stasis Rifle, Propulsion/Repulsion Cannon, and Gas/Vortex Torpedoes. Sure, in all cases these have been nerfed into oblivion so it's more effective to kill things using knives, drills, exploding fish, electroshock defense systems, and blunt force trauma, but violence is still very much a core part of the game, we just have to be more creative about it.

    If the devs had built gameplay systems that actually provided effective nonviolent methods of dealing with hostile creatures that couldn't otherwise be avoided I would be much more favorable on this front. As it stands though, killing hostile creatures is still often the most effective way to deal with them, and the game largely feels just like any other survival game out there, with this one being slanted more towards the survival horror genre due to the lack of effective methods of dealing with threats.

    I think this identity crisis might be why this topic keeps popping up, since for me at least it's pretty obvious the core game was designed (quite possibly unintentionally given the dev's other game projects) around the player having some sort of weaponry (or other methods) to properly deal with threats which simply isn't there, making the game feel unfinished and half-baked given how close to the core gameplay this is. That said, I have (mostly) enjoyed my time with Subnautica, but this issue is a sore point for me (as you've probably guessed).

    Hopefully the devs will be able to better resolve this in Below Zero. I'm not asking them to add weapons, merely to rethink how the player manages threats so they have more options than avoidance or tediously killing things with inefficient makeshift weapons. Maybe something like a handheld sonic stunner that stuns and scares smaller hostiles away, and force fields for bases to create safe zones in otherwise dangerous areas.

    So in the spirit of the OP, here's some of my solutions for the current game. If you actually want a proper nonviolent exploration game, go play something like Abzu. If you want guns in Subnautica, go install mods like this one: https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/145. If you want to play a shooter, like the OP said, get a shooter. This game looks like it could be a lot of fun: https://store.steampowered.com/app/254370/Aquanox_Deep_Descent/. ire those. And I believe Leviathans should be unkillable.

    I am honestly stymied why folks feel the need for proper weapons in Subnautica. Save for the smaller species that can be used as food, there is nothing in the game mechanics that incentivizes killing any other creatures in the game. The larger dangerous creatures yield no resources that move you forward in the game. There's no real risk involved in attacking anything that can kill you as they run away after the slightest hint of damage. I have actually chased a reaper leviathan into the safe shallows with only the PDS on my Seamoth and a warper will teleport away after a single cut from the knife. Adding actual weapons just seems pointless and ill fitting.

    I think you completely missed the point of my post. Nowhere did I ask for more weapons or complain that the game is too difficult. What I've been trying to get at is to provide my perspective on why the topic of weapons keeps coming up. From my perspective it looks like the devs created a fairly standard survival game in terms of creature interactions, and then ripped out effective weapons for Reasons (to protest gun violence) and didn't really put in any other nonviolent alternative game mechanics so we're still playing a game with violence as part of the core gameplay loop, just now we have clunky weapons and highly nerfed creatures. In other words, the absence of effective weapons in the game feels a lot like a hamfisted attempt to send the message of "guns are evil" instead of a natural part of the game world.

    For me at least, this hamfisted removal of weapons without properly building the rest of the game around encouraging nonviolent interactions makes the much of the gameplay feel annoying and half-baked, and is the reason a lot of people complain about this topic and keep bringing it up.
    Post edited by gamer1000k on
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    gamer1000k wrote: »

    For me at least, this hamfisted removal of weapons without properly building the rest of the game around encouraging nonviolent interactions makes the much of the gameplay feel annoying and half-baked, and is the reason a lot of people complain about this topic and keep bringing it up.

    Can you give some examples of the kinds of improvements you would like to see? (I'm interested not trolling)

    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 307 Advanced user
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    gamer1000k wrote: »

    For me at least, this hamfisted removal of weapons without properly building the rest of the game around encouraging nonviolent interactions makes the much of the gameplay feel annoying and half-baked, and is the reason a lot of people complain about this topic and keep bringing it up.

    Can you give some examples of the kinds of improvements you would like to see? (I'm interested not trolling)

    Some improvements I would like to see are a combination of more player tools for nonviolently handling hostile creatures, and reworked creature AI so not so many creatures are effectively hunter-killers that home in on the player.

    The sonic stunner I mentioned earlier could be an early game survival tool that fires a sonic blast in a cone which stuns small fish (to make gathering food less annoying), scares off early game predators (stalkers, sandsharks, gasopods, etc) without needing to get into melee range to knife them, and makes larger predators angry. It's still a bit of a weapon, but it better fits the nonviolent narrative than stabbing things repeatedly with a knife to get them to leave you alone.

    For larger predators, the player can scan them (possibly with an improved scanner with longer range and a cone scan since I find the default scanner annoying to use) to see what their weaknesses are, and like I mentioned earlier, there could be things like craftable repellents that either make that particular creature ignore you, actively avoid you, or potentially even protect you. Other predators could be sensitive to light (like the crabsquid already are, maybe crabsnakes could have this behavior as well) so the flashlight/vehicle lights would temporarily blind them and scare them away (but could attract other predators depending on your location). Some other items could be placeable bait which lures the target creature and distracts them for a while.

    Early in the game's development the devs were working on a transfuser item (which ended up getting cut unfortunately) which could also tie into this, the idea is that you could create serums from creatures that would temporarily boost attributes. This same mechanic could also been used to augment/replace the craftable repellents mentioned above.

    Some other tools could be things like the reinforced dive suit making the player invulnerable to small hostiles (biters, bleeders, cave crawlers, etc), a halo-style motion sensor to make it easier to avoid threats, and an sonar/thermal suit visor/flashlight that doesn't need a hand to hold to make it easier to see potential threats in places with poor visibility. Maybe also a base energy shield so the player can build a small base near a point of interest and power up a bubble shield to physically keep creatures out.

    Fleshing out the tameable creature system could also help. Right now creatures hatched in alien containment won't attack the player, but if it were possible to actually have these creatures defend you or even gather resources for you this could also tie into all of this.

    In terms of reworking creature AI, I would like to see it better reflect how creatures IRL behave. Most predators won't blindly attack an unknown creature unless provoked (except maybe small mindless ones like biters and bleeders, which are pretty much piranhas and leeches which do attack nearly anything). I would like to see these creatures be more inquisitive/defensive than outright aggressive in most cases. There could be creature nests in the world (instead of just random eggs everywhere) and getting too close to the nest draws aggression, or if you get right in the face of a creature. Nests could have a much higher chance of spawning fragments (especially for creatures who are attracted to shinies) so there's a reward for finding a way to get close, and some of the story areas could have nests as well to encourage the player to make use of their tools. Some leviathans could be highly aggressive (especially if the player is just about the right size for a meal), but to counter this I would like to see a much more realistic distribution of predators vs prey (unlike the broken ecosystem we have now that's nearly all predators outside of a few safer biomes) so the player isn't the only target. Also, prey should behave more realistically as well and avoid their natural predators, which would also allow tamed predators to scare off creatures with their presence.

    BlueBottle
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 344 Advanced user
    edited September 24
    @gamer1000k. Some great ideas which all seem to fit well with the game's aesthetics. I kind of got the impression the Devs wanted to include many more game dynamics than their production schedule allowed in the end.

    Fingers crossed for the expansion. I'm also hoping for a return of the transfuser in Below Zero. With such a rich ecosystems it would be great to play meaningfully as astrobiologist, studying creatures to get new biotechs, etc.

    Creature nests, situation-based behaviours, creature-creature interactions, and useful pets. They all sound good to me.

    Not sure about a suit with biter invulnerability, personally I like some paranoia. But maybe if there was some trade-off, perhaps encouraging some playstyle specialization. For example:
    Tank = heavily reinforced suit > some invulnerability, but reduced swimming speed and a tendency to sink
    Stealth = active camouflage suit > reduced creature attention, but fragile and uses power.
    Speed = living bio-engineed fish skin > faster swimming, but attractive to predators.

    Of course these are the sort of biotechs I'd like to have to work for - catching, raising and studying critters. I just want to be Bart Torgal really.
    I've got my objections to the World, certainly. But I'll be very sorry to see it ruined.
    gamer1000k
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members Posts: 307 Advanced user
    edited September 24
    BlueBottle wrote: »
    @gamer1000k. Some great ideas which all seem to fit well with the game's aesthetics. I kind of got the impression the Devs wanted to include many more game dynamics than their production schedule allowed in the end.

    Fingers crossed for the expansion. I'm also hoping for a return of the transfuser in Below Zero. With such a rich ecosystems it would be great to play meaningfully as astrobiologist, studying creatures to get new biotechs, etc.

    Creature nests, situation-based behaviours, creature-creature interactions, and useful pets. They all sound good to me.

    Not sure about a suit with biter invulnerability, personally I like some paranoia. But maybe if there was some trade-off, perhaps encouraging some playstyle specialization. For example:
    Tank = heavily reinforced suit > some invulnerability, but reduced swimming speed and a tendency to sink
    Stealth = active camouflage suit > reduced creature attention, but fragile and uses power.
    Speed = living bio-engineed fish skin > faster swimming, but attractive to predators.

    Of course these are the sort of biotechs I'd like to have to work for - catching, raising and studying critters. I just want to be Bart Torgal really.

    Yeah, from watching the game progress throughout early access and reading the development Trello page I got the impression that the devs cut a LOT of features and game mechanics. Time is always a factor, but performance (another word for time in most cases) was also raised as a reason for cutting a lot of the dynamics.

    I really like those suit ideas. Maybe there could be different upgrade levels as well (along with suit modules), so the tank suit starts out as the radiation suit and progressively gets more armor added on.
    mitagen wrote: »
    An intriguing discussion is definitely worth comment. There's no doubt that that you ought to write more on this subject matter, it might not be a taboo matter but generally people don't speak about such issues. To the next! All the best!!

    Thanks, I'm glad you've enjoyed reading it. I've been commenting on this throughout early access as well, so if you look at my profile and my posting history you should be able to find some links to some interesting discussions on this subject.
  • elfcrisiselfcrisis Join Date: 2017-05-13 Member: 230466Members Posts: 511 Advanced user
    gamer1000k wrote: »
    I wasn't referring to the smaller sea dragons, but the one giant one that guards the entrance to the PCF. As far as I can tell, it's unkillable (although not immune to the almighty habitat builder physics glitching).

    It may be that the one in front of the PCF looks bigger because it's in a smaller environment, but I'm pretty sure there's only one kind of Sea Dragon. I've never tried killing that one because it's such a massive pain in the pain. If it's not immune to all damage, then it's killable. Just depends on how patient/tenacious you are.
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