ns2_veil_cured

pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by NatureGermany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
An attempt to balance the different Alien Starts and reduce frustrating stalemates especially regarding System Waypointing.

publish_id = "575b854c"
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1465615692

Changelog:
-Moved Pipeline and Neck closer to the center of the map
-Removed vent exit into pipe
-Added another big crate in Cargo near the res node
-Added half closed door in Sub Sector similar to the ones at the res node platform
-Added and moved crates in Overlook for better Gorge Tunnel spots and defense
-Added a vent from Overlook to System Waypointing
-Minor changes to System Waypointing geometry and more Terminals on upper level for cover
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moultanoG_LockHandschuh

Comments

  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    I'd like to request that you put the nano vents above nano instead of below to get rid of the rookie trap that is the east/west junction vents.

    otherwise, nice changes, I hope to play them soon!
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    Yes, I didnt want to change too much yet, and first see how the map is received.
    Those vents are definately on my list tho.


    Kasharic
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    Update:
    -Added a straight connection from east to west vent below the Nanogrid floor
    -Added a hanging container crate in Cargo to make it easier for skulks to get straight up to the crane and challenge jetpackers
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    Mouse
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 121 Advanced user
    I really like what you did with neck and pipe, the long path running from C12 to neck always felt overly long and bare.
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    pSyk0mAn wrote: »
    Update:
    -Added a hanging container crate in Cargo to make it easier for skulks to get straight up to the crane and challenge jetpackers
    d9k1zn1tfgrz.jpg

    This is brilliant. I thought about trying to tackle this before but I could never come up with an aesthetic solution. Props for your props.
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
    Steam / Watch live video from zavaro on Twitch / Twitter
    Have a bug in NS2? Report it in the thread! If you can, post how to reproduce it, or private message me on the forum!
    pSyk0mAn
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    G_Lock wrote: »
    I really like what you did with neck and pipe, the long path running from C12 to neck always felt overly long and bare.
    Yes, exactly.
    Pipeline was just too far away from the rest of the map for Aliens and also Marines (when Aliens start Sub).
    Now Aliens are faster everywhere on the map from Pipe. Easier to defend C12 or harass Topo.
    At the same time Marines holding the Pipe side have an easier time to defend those res towers against Sub-Aliens.


  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 627 Advanced user
    Took a look at the changes earlier, my only concern with your changes at all is the Overlook to System vent.

    With this in place, aliens will rarely lose a lifeform, one of the most effective pinch spots is now gone... more often than not, if you have a marine in west junction and a marine in sub, a Lerk in Overlook that goes low will die... now, there is almost no chance at all that it will happen.
    The vent itself creates an "invulnerability spot" where the only ways for marines to deal with an alien in there is with Jetpacks (for the most part), which means even if you have a marine in Y-junction, Sub AND west junction trying to trap, you're still not going to get that kill if the Lerk just sits in the vent.

    I appreciate what you're trying to achieve with the vent, but I believe there is likely a better way to do it.

    The rest of the changes I really like, though I do question if Utility is even needed now, you could remove the powernode for that area and just make it all Pipeline.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    pSyk0mAn
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited August 7
    Agreed about Utility, was thinking about it too, since it is so small now and the Power node is close to Pipe Power node.

    I understand the concern about the vent, but I don't like your reasoning, or let's say I don't agree that it has to be that way.
    Nevertheless I'll try to put some crates below the vent exit in overlook, so a Marine can at least shoot inside, while jumping up to challenge that "invulnerability spot".

    Edit: Removed Utility, added crates below vent exit.
    Post edited by pSyk0mAn on


    Kasharic
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited August 18
    Update:
    -Added more space in The Dome towards the north to improve that phasegate position, when Aliens have Sub side.
    -Added more starting Cysts in Pipeline; harder to harass Pipeline Harvester, takes 1 less Cyst towards Cargo/Nano/C12.

    So..I have a few more ideas, but they would probably alter the map and the way how ppl are used to play Veil too much.
    But I'm curious about everyones thoughts.

    -Move Sub more to the south, which makes Sub Start a bit less alien-favored and at the same time increases rotation times for Marines against Pipe side Aliens, while defending Extractors.
    This unfortunately removes the ARC spot in the corner of System, so I'm not sure about this change.

    -Make Skylights somehow more marine friendly. (This may not be needed, if Sub were farther away to the south)
    - Increase its size maybe, so it takes a second longer for Skulks to get in/out of the vent.
    - Add two crates at the vent exit, so a single Marine can get inside from Skylights. This would destroy or heavly nerf all those (fun) mini-games and mindgames regarding that vent area (at least until jetpacks) and also affect Alien Starts in Pipe/Cargo.


  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    I have not seen your The Dome change yet, but giving it more space is generally a good thing, I don't like the gameplay in The Dome due to how narrow it is.

    I think Skylights is already very marine friendly. The only thing I think could be worth a look is to make the vent a bit less accessible for skulks, aka a bit longer time needed to get into it. I would really dislike the idea of being able to hop into Skylights vent as a single marine though.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited August 18
    The skylight changes are only related to Sub Start, because when you compare it to Topo - Pipe Start it is much easier to skulk-drop on Marines in Skylight and deny/kill the Extractor early, which has a rather big impact on the early game.
    Furthermore it is easier to trap Aliens in Topo vent or keep it clear compared to Skylights. All these things play into Sub Start being too strong.

    Edit: Created more space in Skylights.
    Post edited by pSyk0mAn on


  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,546 mod
    I think the skylights vent needs to have less LoS on the node. Make it so that the aliens need to stick their heads out to snipe at it.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
    IeptBarakat
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    Update:
    -Moved the Vent Entrance leading from Pipeline to Cargo lower, so it's more obvious and easier to reach. Also slightly easier to cover by Marines holding Pipe side.
    -Added 2 alcoves between Pipe and Neck for Aliens to dodge some bullets in these long hallways.
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    IeptBarakatKasharicHandschuhskav2
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    edited October 27
    Update:
    -Added a crate in Skylights as los-blocker so it's easier for Skulks to move from behind the res node to the left wall, when Marines approach.
    -Added a crate in East Junction to make it easier to jump over the railing, when going from Topo to Nano.
    -Lowered the entire half ring around the C12 res node area to hopefully improve that area for Marines (against Lerks/Fades) without screwing with early game Skulks spawning in Pipeline.
    -Added some crates in Y-Junction near System entrance to improve that area for Skulks and Gorges to either bile more safely or be able to get into vents (not happy with the visuals, just for testing now). This also helps Aliens starting in Pipeline. That whole Y-Junction area is just too Marine-friendly compared to the opposite area around Dome, when Aliens start in Sub.
    -Created more space at the Cargo entrance coming from Y-Junction for ARCs shooting at Cargo so they don't have to be placed in the doorway.
    -Fixed Occlusion Geo in West causing muffled shooting sounds (Thanks Handschuh).
    -Fixed EXO stuck bug in Y-Junction (Thanks Ironhorse).

    Then another thing I'm thinking about to improve a few things at once:
    Somehow shorten the travel time from Topo/East to Marine Start by slightly moving Topo more towards the map.
    This would improve the following things:
    -Help Marines against Aliens starting in Sub, because they save a few seconds to go to the East / Pipeline side of the map
    -Help Aliens in the lategame against System lockdown, because a Topo Tunnel or rotation leads to faster base-rushes.
    -Help Marines in general to react a bit faster to Topo RT being attacked.

    Any thoughts?


  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 752 Advanced user
    Looks solid, but what I am not a fan of is the crate in Skylights. It is already incredibly safe to bite that RT, adding an extra crate makes it even easier. There must be some level of risk and commitment for a Skulk to bite an RT.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,701 Advanced user
    Since I made skylights bigger and moved the RT more away from the entrance, it is already harder to retreat to the vent or the other side. Hence the crate to give a Skulk a better chance to get to the left side and wait for the Marine to come closer.


  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 750 admin
    The minimap is currently inaccurate with where the Cargo vent is. If it's an issue with Groups or Layers, I'd suggest adding geo high above the Commander camera and add it to the vent layer, that way it'll show up properly on the minimap, but not effect the other contents of layers or groups.
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
    Steam / Watch live video from zavaro on Twitch / Twitter
    Have a bug in NS2? Report it in the thread! If you can, post how to reproduce it, or private message me on the forum!
    pSyk0mAn
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