Mineshaft fixes?

KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 570 Advanced user
C'mon folks, name all the things (and provide pictures if you can) of any/all issues that you have with Mineshaft, though I do ask that you avoid "balance" related issues, no layout changes etc will be made at the moment, I'm just looking for power issues, commander clutter, structure placement oddities, flickering textures, broken collision etc.

Please do keep all issues relating to Mineshaft, at a later date I will be going through the other maps too, so we will eventually get around to those pesky issues for all of the maps.
Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

#blameHefty
Archie

Comments

  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 413 Advanced user
    edited August 3
    repair and cave are far to close to one another in regards to defending, it's hard for kharra to keep res over that side of the map of . when repair is starting marine spawn its a horrible start point for kharra to deal with, it puts central, cave in reach aswell as multiple res nodes.

    i will post powernode issues soon.

    i would like for it to be harder to kill cavern for marines, perhaps make entry point smaller? later on tonight i'll record a video with everything wrong in my opinion with mineshaft.

    it is my favourite map overall but it only worked very well in previous builds. I have alot more to say about it but need a PC infront of ne to get my thoughts out more clear.
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 353 Advanced user
    edited August 3
    After writing down the text, I have to say, I like Mineshaft, learned to live with it, but I never vote for it, because it always had this imbalanced feeling. Even though it feels bigger than tram? (So it would be more suited above 9vs9?)

    One that it seems Marinesided if Marines know what they're doing, but on lower skilled servers also hard for Marines, because they are not able to capture and hold Central.

    1)
    I think exiting the vent to Waterpumps is kind of a stuck spot/rookietrap.
    It might be because of the diagonal rods, but it is easy to misjudge how to go down from the into the corridor as aliens without getting stuck. Or Lerks getting stuck trying to fly in that vent..^^

    I see a lot of ppl die there due to that.


    2) Cart Tunnel is an issue.
    a) Carttunnel has no cover at all for skulks. The only thing you have is at the really high top that only lerks could really use to bait some bullets. But Skulks up there take quite a while to go down... while it might be good on first glance, it gives skilled Marines quite some time... without celerity you really feel helpless in the earlygame.
    b) Carttunnel -> NoName RT also no cover... (same could be said to Crusher, but to that I come later)


    3) No-Name RT has no name... hard to call it out like that


    4) Hivepositions... / Left Side of the Map
    After thinking about it a while, what feels really weird is in general the Deposit Lanes
    a) Marinearcing from deposit feels really easy / hard to block
    b) Having a Marine in conveyors feels ... weird... or maybe it is the fact that Sorting and Deposit are so close together.

    The right side is compared so big, but the left side? So close together...
    Maybe that is the reason combined with CartTunnels that this Map feels Marinesided if skilled Marines are on the field unless you get really good Lerks up.

    Marines just hold CartTunnels, Conveyors, Central and they have SEVEN RTs up?


    While Aliens often only hold:
    Noname, Sorting, Cave, Crusher

    Crusher:
    Seems also hard to defend in general, while there is a lot of clutter in that room that a skulk can use to wallhop, ambushing is really hard... if Marines come from CartTunnels, then you can only really go from above? From the right is not really "ambushable" if the marine walks to the left...

    If Marines come from Central, ambushing from the Top of the "stamp"... it is to high... so there are not that many options (or rather they're obvious?)

    Same feeling I always get in "The Gap", Noname RT to Cave Hive, or North Tunnel:
    These Rooms are mostly really "Caves", big caves, that make it quite hard to actually ambush (or in my opinion rather obvious how ppl are ambushing)



    EDIT:
    Repair Tunnel:
    It is hard to hold... feels like a more open Ore Extraction... you can hold it with clogtowers, but setting it up is hard enough (but most gorges just build a clogwall around the tunnel)
    If you have a good setup for the tunnel, it still feels impossible to hold since the room (and the entrances) are quite big... and preventing Marines not to come to repair from the northside... I don't know




    Aftermath: In general, I point out a lot of things, but fixing everything according to what comes to mind for me might make that map totally Alienfavoured^^
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 907 Advanced user
    @Handschuh he said in the post to AVOID balance related changes and only focus on bugs like occlusion issues, stuck spots etc.

    Must say though the vent exit at waterpumps is clunky as fuck. You'd better drop the X-Beam to the floor or something
    return to zero
    NousWandererKasharicArchieskav2
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 242 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    Must say though the vent exit at waterpumps is clunky as fuck. You'd better drop the X-Beam to the floor or something
    Easily one of the worst vent entrances/exits in any official map.

  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 570 Advanced user
    Thanks for the posts folks, I will first do a bug tweak regarding what feedback i've gotten here and privately on discord.

    After that, I will begin working on a tweaked version of mineshaft to hopefully address "some" of the concerns regarding balance, though I don't want to make huge sweeping changes, I do want to see mineshaft played and enjoyed more.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 708 Advanced user
    Can you check the area under the walkway between the bottom left tech point and water treatment? I remembe it very annoying to use and also annoying to climb back up again as marine.
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 570 Advanced user
    Can you check the area under the walkway between the bottom left tech point and water treatment? I remembe it very annoying to use and also annoying to climb back up again as marine.

    Any chance you could give screenshots of where you mean... Also, there is no water treatment on mineshaft, so that is causing me more confusion XD
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,671 Advanced user
    I think he means the area between pilot drill and water pumps.
    I think that area is fine, unless there are stuck spots or it's really hard to get out. Marines have no business being down there anyway.


  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 413 Advanced user
    vent at waterpumps is awesome, perfect ambush spot and makes it easier for aliens to get away, if you have problems getting up there, try holding shift, i've never failed. you probably just mad because its a good spot. it would be a tragedy to lose that big X or the vent!(perhaps shorten the vent and bend it round the corner?
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    Kasharic
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 708 Advanced user
    edited August 3
    lcmzcg8s1cst.jpg
    Stuck Spot. Should have collision geo.

    tiupl26f3z24.jpg
    This is the area I was talking about... I think collision geo to even out the walking area would be nice, it is really annoying walking there.

    887cxp5nezt5.jpg
    Tiny hole lol... But the reason I screenshotted this is because it is very annoying to get into that vent if you are not using the scaffolding. It is the vent entry from Pilot Drill to Central.

    ckjf5lohz9ki.jpg
    Misaligned props. This is North Tunnels.

    2cta5s19c0hj.jpg
    Erm... Just no. This is in Cavern.

    m0iwbont92x4.jpg
    Pitch black area on low lights in this vent (the one from Water Pumps).

    xain8z6rnfyh.jpg
    Another pitch black area in Brew Rooms.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,456 Advanced user
    Make central drilling the 6th tech point, and make the hive impossible for marines to attack immediately from any entrance. And keep it double res.
    mattji104
    Kasharic
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 413 Advanced user
    edited August 4
    edit:i'll come back later and fix it.
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  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 663 Advanced user
    edited August 4
    Archie wrote: »
    vent at waterpumps is awesome, perfect ambush spot and makes it easier for aliens to get away, if you have problems getting up there, try holding shift, i've never failed. you probably just mad because its a good spot. it would be a tragedy to lose that big X or the vent!(perhaps shorten the vent and bend it round the corner?

    What about the big X makes it an awesome ambush spot or helps aliens in any way????

    Like seriously it's so anti alien that my first thought upon seeing it was whoever created mineshaft must despise the alien side.

    DMD_mineshaft fixed that water pumps vent perfectly!
    skav2
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 353 Advanced user
    About that X I don't think that it is out of place... it should just have less collision issues ^^
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