Necessity of building a Cyclops

GlassDeviantGlassDeviant Terra Join Date: 2017-02-27 Member: 228342Members Posts: 192 Advanced user
I am about to build the Neptune Cockpit, and I have encountered a situation.

While I can see repurposing a Cyclops Shield Generator for the Neptune rocket, it makes perfect sense, what boggles my mind is this: I have gotten through the entire game without needing to build a Cyclops, but now to get off the planet I have to build this stupid submarine for the sole purpose of accessing the on-board special purpose fabricator to build the shield for use in the rocket. This is idiotic. The cyclops modules should all be available in the Vehicle Upgrade Console like every other Vehicle Upgrade in the game.

Comments

  • ryansearcyakryansearcyak Alaska Join Date: 2018-03-01 Member: 238451Members Posts: 37 Advanced user
    I wish the Cyclops had more uses when I played for the first time. When I used it, it was only to transfer a large amount of resources between bases. It practically never saw the Lost River with the exception of my base in the Ghost Forest. Never took it to the Inactive Lava Zone. It would be nice if the Cyclops offered more unique features that cannot be done inside a base.

    The Seamoth was my preferred vehicle of choice, it can take me to depths to get any resource except for Kyanite. It's smaller and faster than the Cyclops and it is far easier to dodge predators.

    I do agree with having to make the Cyclops in order to finish the rocket, because quite frankly, that would make the end too easy.
    mono_no_aware
  • JustAHatJustAHat Join Date: 2018-04-25 Member: 240316Members Posts: 99 Advanced user
    edited May 24
    I really don't see the problem here. Also, as for your suggestion of moving the shield upgrade to the VUC, that would do more harm than good. As let's say you're in the ilz, and you need a shield upgrade built and fast, boom, just whip one up at the cyclops upgrade fabricator. Alternatively if it was in the VUC, well, you get the idea there. I find upgrades having to be made in the cyclops makes way more sense, as some upgrades require materials (like kyanite) that are in the ilz.
  • Sam_StarfallSam_Starfall Join Date: 2017-05-21 Member: 230665Members Posts: 193 Advanced user
    I'm also surprised you "never use the cyclops", enough to doubt it actually even if I'm at odd as to why you would lie like that.
    You DO KNOW you can build a fabricator and storage inside? even put some plant, giving it essentially infinite range once you can recharge with thermal vent.
    Giving it more ability, like scanning for ore would more or less kill the last reason I needed base.

    One of the rare upgrade I'm ok with would be a Storage system accessible from both inside and outside AND with the Prawn, if I had that and it stack I would actually build a Cyclops only for mining.

    Any other change I could come up with are more in the Total Conversion.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,734 Advanced user
    edited May 25
    The Cyclops is like the carrier of the fleet, once you've got it you can set up base anywhere you want, any time, any place. without having to go through the hell called the bug-fest that is ... Building a base... Not to mention you aren't forced to get them resources for all those bases.

    Although for some insane reason, you do need a moonpool to upgrade/mod your PRAWN... But here's the kicker... You CANNOT acces the upgrades while it's inside the bloody moonpool. It's like them dev type people are trolling us :D

    What were they thinking?

    mqdefault.jpg

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  • FlametuskFlametusk Sparse Reef Join Date: 2018-01-24 Member: 235582Members Posts: 69 Advanced user
    I drove my Cyclops all of once in my survival world that I finished. It was to carry resources needed to start a base over by the northern blood kelp zone, along with carrying my prawn over there. Never turned on the engine since. It's still floating over that place.

    Why don't I use It? A) I like having really impractical bases with a huge stack of alien containments.
    B) I like building huge, sprawling bases.
    C) I like growing aquatic flora.
    D) most importantly, the Cyclops can be destroyed. Cyclopses are more expensive than moonpools were before 1.0!
    E) Cyclopses are not agile in any way shape or form.

    Whenever I needed Kyanite, I went down into the depths of the blood kelp, into the ghost forest, and past the cove tree, before grappling my way out the way I came. Until I went to the power plant, in which case I simply jump jet and grappled my way swiftly over to the gun. Or, no. I only did that once, and the way I left was through the mushroom forest.

    It is my opinion that the best place to build a base is the northern end of the Sparse Reef.

    That moment when you accidentally eat the last Marblemelon.
  • Migel_O_HaraMigel_O_Hara Join Date: 2018-05-27 Member: 240962Members Posts: 9 Fully active user
    Hmmm interesting thought
  • AnachAnach Join Date: 2018-06-10 Member: 241279Members Posts: 11 Fully active user
    I found the Cyclops was really useful for transporting the Prawn. I would use silent mode on the Cyclops whenever I was in dangerous areas, and never had a problem with any size creature, they all just swam by. I used it to go everywhere as a mobile base. The prawn is too slow and cumbersome to go too far on it's own, so I rarely used it until I got the Cyclops. I would park the Cyclops at the alien bases and use the prawn to enter the bases, which was obviously the intended design, as you need the drill to gather those alien cubes. With the Cyclops you have unlimited food, water, power, no matter where you are.
    Bomoo
  • elfcrisiselfcrisis Join Date: 2017-05-13 Member: 230466Members Posts: 506 Advanced user
    I've gone entire games where I've done almost nothing with the Cyclops, and other games where I did almost everything with it.

    I like that I get to choose how I play the game, at least in that regard.
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited July 9
    I feel the Cyclops was designed during a period when the game was expected to include airlocks and various other 'realistic' depth mechanics. That way the Cyclops would have been essential for use with a dry entry PRAWN suit, away from home base moonpools etc..

    You can see a hint the Devs had a fuller depth mechanic in mind from the Cyclops' nose compartment labelled "Diving Chamber" and laid out with a bulkhead like a floodable airlock. There's another airlock pictured in the concept art too.
    a3mev5m0j4ct.jpg

    Cool hey? Shame they didn't go this way, but I remember there were a lot of performance issues they were wrestling with in the months leading up to release, when they announced there would be a hold on all new content until they solved them. So I suppose they included the Cyclops-Neptune spare part mechanic as a reason for the player to bother building this expensive now non-essential craft.
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 459 Advanced user
    There's another reason why they abandoned such mechanics. Waiting for intermediary rooms to lock up, then flood (or dry up) is fun at first, but it is considered to slow down the game with repetitive animations down the line.
    Personally, I would love to see this implemented.
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited July 9
    Maalteromm wrote: »
    There's another reason why they abandoned such mechanics .... it is considered to slow down the game with repetitive animations down the line.


    Hey @Maalteromm, is that an official position from a Dev post somewhere? I find it hard to get a response from them on such issues.

  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 459 Advanced user
    They do not usually respond, unless it's something critical.
    Most information discussed on the forums come from other users discussing trello cards, tweets or comments from discord.

    So, mostly, I'm second handedly informed.
    Without the means to evaluate confidence of the source material and my own, usually flawed, memories and interpretations; I would take anything I say with a gram of salt (or 28,5ml of dehydrated seawater, your pick).
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,734 Advanced user
    edited July 9
    Did someone say "repetitive animations"?


    HMM???

    *explodes*

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  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited July 9
    @Maalteromm, Ok thanks for the honesty dude.

    Meanwhile, just thinking on a cure for the whole 'useless' Cyclops issue (IMHO), even without reintroducing airlocks, this problem might be solved just but making PRAWN entry/exit impossible in the water. I can't imagine this would create any lengthy development issue, and if people are too used to the current arrangement then this could be implemented just within the hardcore mode.

    Or have I missed something here?
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 459 Advanced user
    I don't think it is useless, more like unnecessary.
    It has a role as mobile base, something that allows you to rest, eat/drink and store whatever, wherever.
    The major drawback against this role is the dimensions of the map and the range of the smaller vehicles. Since you can go anywhere very quickly, without worrying about recharging, this role gets really hurt.

    The way I envision it, the map should be huge and take a couple hours to go from one edge to the opposite in regular transportation modes. Then the Cyclops would have a "traveling" role, with very high top speed, low acceleration and very clumsy maneuverability, including some sort of "autorun", in which it would keep going forward at top speed (preferably at surface). In it, crossing the map would fall to ~10 - 15min, which could be used to eat, drink, craft or get up to date with PDA entries (it should have tons of it, the more the merrier).

    I believe your suggestion would not hinder the game in any way, it could at least be optional.
    However they seem to be done with this game, excluding performance improvements. I believe any new mechanics will be postponed until the expansion, as it adds value to the new product.
    Mazzy
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    Maalteromm wrote: »
    I don't think it is useless, more like unnecessary.

    I believe your suggestion would not hinder the game in any way, it could at least be optional.
    However they seem to be done with this game, excluding performance improvements. I believe any new mechanics will be postponed until the expansion, as it adds value to the new product.

    Yeah, I doubt my vision for the base game will ever be implemented. But hopefully Subnautica is the start of a long lived AAA franchise which eventually develops in that direction.
  • BomooBomoo Join Date: 2018-02-05 Member: 236923Members Posts: 15 Advanced user
    edited August 8
    How on earth did you get through the lava part without a cyclops stealthing past those dragon leviathans? Not to mention how in the heck long did it take you to navigate the lost river + lava lakes in just a prawn doing the spiderman thing along the walls? Or getting yanked out of your prawn every 30s by warpers. Or having to get out every few minutes to knock leechers off. Good god, that must have been maddening.

    That boggles my mind - it's so so so so much more convenient to pack a prawn into a cyclops and navigate the lost river + lava lakes that way.
  • LeeTwentyThreeLeeTwentyThree Join Date: 2018-01-31 Member: 236321Members Posts: 80 Advanced user
    @Bomoo wrote: »
    How on earth did you get through the lava part without a cyclops stealthing past those dragon leviathans? Not to mention how in the heck long did it take you to navigate the lost river + lava lakes in just a prawn doing the spiderman thing along the walls? Or getting yanked out of your prawn every 30s by warpers. Or having to get out every few minutes to knock leechers off. Good god, that must have been maddening.

    That boggles my mind - it's so so so so much more convenient to pack a prawn into a cyclops and navigate the lost river + lava lakes that way.

    Not really. The Prawn Suit is faster, cheaper, and uses less power. It can go deeper by itself than other subs in the game. Less materials needed for upgrading.

    But I do use the Prawn Suit for the storage purpose. And crafting. I would usually park my cyclops in the tree cove and then drop down into my prawn suit and go all the way to the lava castle then the PCF. The Prawn Suit has a small aggro. Even if you do get the Sea Dragon's attention, you can just grapple across the ceiling. No problem at all with the prawn suit...
  • MaalterommMaalteromm Brasil Join Date: 2017-09-22 Member: 233183Members Posts: 459 Advanced user
    Bomoo wrote: »
    How on earth did you get through the lava part without a cyclops stealthing past those dragon leviathans? Not to mention how in the heck long did it take you to navigate the lost river + lava lakes in just a prawn doing the spiderman thing along the walls? Or getting yanked out of your prawn every 30s by warpers. Or having to get out every few minutes to knock leechers off. Good god, that must have been maddening.

    That boggles my mind - it's so so so so much more convenient to pack a prawn into a cyclops and navigate the lost river + lava lakes that way.

    The Prawn is very agile and can leap vast distances if you grapple the floor immediately in front of you to gain speed and then jump.
    Just ignore the dragons, at most they may spit some fireballs. Nothing to worry about.

    And navigating is harder, but doable. And don't grapple walls, stay near the ground and move by leaping as described above.
  • ryansearcyakryansearcyak Alaska Join Date: 2018-03-01 Member: 238451Members Posts: 37 Advanced user
    Bomoo wrote: »
    How on earth did you get through the lava part without a cyclops stealthing past those dragon leviathans? Not to mention how in the heck long did it take you to navigate the lost river + lava lakes in just a prawn doing the spiderman thing along the walls? Or getting yanked out of your prawn every 30s by warpers. Or having to get out every few minutes to knock leechers off. Good god, that must have been maddening.

    That boggles my mind - it's so so so so much more convenient to pack a prawn into a cyclops and navigate the lost river + lava lakes that way.

    My first play through of the series, my Cyclops barely saw the inside of the Lost River. I only used it to ferry items from my base at the Mountain Island to my base in the Ghost Forest. I didn't want to deal with the Ghost Leviathan, as I was unsure of it's aggro range. When I was helping a friend of mine get to the Lava Zone on their play through, I went by on silent running, slow speed, and did not see the Ghost Leviathan at all. When I was moving all of their stuff from the Tree Cove to the surface after visiting the Primary Containment Facility (I had ferried a majority of it up with a Seamoth and 3 Storage Modules), I was able to go through the Ghost Forest (hugging the right wall), at normal speed and no silent running without drawing attention from the Ghost Leviathan.

  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited August 10
    My first playthrough, like Ryan, I only used the Cyclops to ferry the Seamoth and supplies needed to build a forward base near the Cove Tree (nice spooky place for a base). The idea being I could use the Seamoth to shuttle anything still needed from the surface. Prawned it on from there. Warpers, more so than dragons, were the more stress inducing. Luckily an empty Prawn suit defies gravity.

    Second playthrough dropped the Cyclops down from a base built over the Lost River Junction - only to have it promptly immobilised by a swarm of accursed lava larvae. So again used the Prawn from there on- but with a diving knife and a vengeful attitude.

    Third time didn't bother building it at all - until I found out I needed the spare parts for some arbitrary endgame mechanic.

    But yeah, you don't really need to drive that big old clumsy bus.
  • ryansearcyakryansearcyak Alaska Join Date: 2018-03-01 Member: 238451Members Posts: 37 Advanced user
    "Best" use of my Cyclops in my initial play through: I had built the Rocket next to the Mountain Island and even styled my base around it (even having a hatch and vertical connectors going right onto the platform), but I became dissatisfied with its location. I wanted to move my base to the Mushroom Forest near the warp gate, but I didn't want to leave the Rocket so far away. I discovered I could nudge the Rocket with my Cyclops (by accidentally hitting the platform when moving the Cyclops into a better spot), so I decided to nudge the Rocket all the way to the Mushroom Forest. Several hours, 1300 meters, and 6 fires later, my Rocket finally reached the area above the warp gate. I also discovered I could move it just slightly with the player, though at a much slower pace than the Cyclops.
  • elfcrisiselfcrisis Join Date: 2017-05-13 Member: 230466Members Posts: 506 Advanced user
    You can do all of the Lost River in the Seamoth, which used to be my preferred method of getting through there. Also, with a single ultra-high capacity O2 tank, you can go from the top of that pit where a Ghost Leviathan patrols, all the way to the power plant. Easy. Zap the dragon with a stasis rifle if you need to. You can also go from the power plant to the PFC the same way.

    It was fun once or twice, but I've had more fun taking a Cyclops down there and actually building a base.
  • LavLav Minsk, Belarus Join Date: 2018-06-18 Member: 241524Members Posts: 26 Advanced user
    elfcrisis wrote: »
    You can do all of the Lost River in the Seamoth, which used to be my preferred method of getting through there.

    It was fun once or twice, but I've had more fun taking a Cyclops down there and actually building a base.
    I usually combine these approaches. :-) I go in a Seamoth and build a small base in ILZ, somewhere close to the edge of the entrance to ALZ. This gives me practically 100% reach with a Seamoth/Seaglide combo for the entire area.

    With a couple cargo containers on the Seamoth and a single trip back to Seamoth for extra supplies you can actually build quite a lot there.
  • BlueBottleBlueBottle Australia Join Date: 2018-02-03 Member: 236674Members Posts: 306 Advanced user
    edited August 16
    The hassle with method is that any future travel between the surface and your ILZ base is likely needed to be done in the PRAWN. Which gets kind of tedious.

    But yes, the Cyclops is a pain. I would have enjoyed it if they made it more user friendly. That's is:

    a) Made much shorter - there's really no need for that massive drive shaft. And I'd be happy with one less accommodation compartment too.
    b) Driveable in the normal first person mode - that big window is tragically irrelevant if you can't look out of it properly while you're driving.
    c) Actually needed for underwater Prawn access (OK, I needed to flog that dead horse)
    Post edited by BlueBottle on
  • BoffBoff Sweden Join Date: 2018-08-12 Member: 242804Members Posts: 10 Fully active user
    - Light up the diving ring around the access port, so we don't have to fumble in the dark.
    - Interior Bulkhead door for the middle room on the top deck, make it slidy door if you have to
    - Floodlights that light up an area around not just infront so it helps scavenge (can we attatch the base spot-lights?)
    - Consoles that work, telling you the temperature, heading, without having to sit in the driver's seat,
    -The middle room has conning tower sensor panels, so we can access the cameras, maybe even detach?

    - Interior Emergency lighting (red) than can be toggled on an off. As sometimes I light to pretend I've powered down, but not have to run around with a flash-light.
    - This lighting and (emergency) oxygen run on normal "battery" that powers it, so you don't have to go fully dark, (handy for emp blasts).


    For total mobile base needs

    - (as mentioned similar functionality for the ) Vehicle stations.
    - Vehicle upgrades for the Cyclops
    - vehicle administration for the moonpool,
    - Auto-repair for the moonpool.
    - Toggle switch to repair
    - toggle switch to recharge.
    - Ability to Replace power-cells at the stations

    - Cyclops SCANNERS!!!
    - Access from the back and (and preferably) top
    - Exterior storage hatches as water-grow-beds.

  • GlassDeviantGlassDeviant Terra Join Date: 2017-02-27 Member: 228342Members Posts: 192 Advanced user
    edited September 10
    Been a while since I came 'round here so:
    I cannot relate.

    I use my cyclops all the time. It acts as my mobile operations center, where I do everything. I eat, store, explore, and chill in it. It's much more useful than usual.

    And nothing I said would stop you from doing that, everyone gets to play the game their own way.
    JustAHat wrote: »
    ...as for your suggestion of moving the shield upgrade to the VUC...

    I didn't say that at all. I said they should be available in the VUC, not that they should be removed from the Cyclops.
    I'm also surprised you "never use the cyclops", enough to doubt it actually even if I'm at odd as to why you would lie like that.
    You DO KNOW you can build a fabricator and storage inside? even put some plant, giving it essentially infinite range once you can recharge with thermal vent.
    Giving it more ability, like scanning for ore would more or less kill the last reason I needed base.

    One of the rare upgrade I'm ok with would be a Storage system accessible from both inside and outside AND with the Prawn, if I had that and it stack I would actually build a Cyclops only for mining.

    Any other change I could come up with are more in the Total Conversion.

    What exactly do you see that would prevent someone from getting through the game without using the cyclops? I'm not saying I've never used it, but in my most recent playthrough I didn't.

    Sure, I am well aware that I can put all that stuff inside, but I have never needed to. I put tiny bases where I require them and they provide everything I need without having to manoeuvre a baleen whale through a garden hose (exaggeration yes, but it's a pointed exaggeration). In my last playthrough, when I posted the OP of the thread, I would have finished the game entirely without building the Cyclops if I did not have to fab that component to build the Neptune.
    elfcrisis wrote: »
    I've gone entire games where I've done almost nothing with the Cyclops, and other games where I did almost everything with it. I like that I get to choose how I play the game, at least in that regard.

    Choice is great. I didn't like that I had no choice other than to build the Cyclops in order to build a Neptune.
    Bomoo wrote: »
    How on earth did you get through the lava part without a cyclops stealthing past those dragon leviathans? Not to mention how in the heck long did it take you to navigate the lost river + lava lakes in just a prawn doing the spiderman thing along the walls? Or getting yanked out of your prawn every 30s by warpers. Or having to get out every few minutes to knock leechers off. Good god, that must have been maddening.

    That boggles my mind - it's so so so so much more convenient to pack a prawn into a cyclops and navigate the lost river + lava lakes that way.

    Are you kidding? Prawning around like spiderman is way faster than moving an ungainly sub, though I spent most of my time in the lost river and ILZ just walking the suit around. You can walk around in the lost river under the acid as long as you don't get out, the Prawn is immune. Leeches are a pain regardless of whether you use a Prawn or Cyclops. Warpers can be avoided if you are situationally aware and watch their movement patterns. Dragon leviathans are easy to avoid, at least most of the time, and there are plenty of spots you can hide to pop out and run the repair tool for a few ticks when your dodging occasionally fails. For some real fun, use the grapple on the dragon and let it drag you around for a while. It CANNOT hit you while you are doing that. Plus for a "nonviolent game" you can certainly do a lot of damage with the knife or the drill/bare fist on the Prawn, despite not being able to kill anything.
    "Best" use of my Cyclops in my initial play through: I had built the Rocket...

    Dang, I didn't even know there was going to BE a rocket in my initial playthrough. They hadn't even finished the inactive lava zone, much less the active lava zone back then.

  • JustAHatJustAHat Join Date: 2018-04-25 Member: 240316Members Posts: 99 Advanced user
    edited September 10

    Plus for a "nonviolent game" you can certainly do a lot of damage with the knife or the drill/bare fist on the Prawn, despite not being able to kill anything.

    note you can kill things, such as the dragon, you're just not *supposed* to
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