Public Playtest tomorrow for balance changes!

IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,165 admin
Hey all,

For our first Public Playtest session scheduled for patch 323:

Tomorrow, Saturday April 28th 1300 PDT / 2200 CEST


All are welcome to join and test the build with us by playing a few rounds.
This patch and the purpose of this public playtest is to garner some feedback from the community in regards to some balance changes that are in the works. Nothing is final, and most everything is definitely in flux, even day to day, but the important take away is that alien upgrades have been moved around or adjusted and that silence has been removed. This is not the final public playtest for this patch - this is one of hopefully 3 public tests that will be held this patch cycle, to ensure that the changes being made are sound. So if you're able to, come play some rounds and then give your opinion on the state of things, along with any suggestions you may have, in order to help shape the path of development for NS2. (You can always track what's being worked on here)

Join our Official Discord Server a few minutes before the listed time in order to organize with us and ask any question before we play games.
You'll need to swap to the BETA branch of NS2 for this test.
Once you've selected the branch, then just idle in our General Voice channel to coordinate with us joining the server.

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me in our discord.
Thanks and see you there! :smile:
QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
mitten

Comments

  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 549 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    silence has been removed.

    :)

    NordicStark
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,569 Advanced user
    Aeglos wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    silence has been removed.

    :)

    :(

    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 663 Advanced user
    Cloaking is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than silence.

    Should be removing that instead.

    If silence is gone then so to are a fair number of gorge tunnels that only last long enough to be used because the piggy is able to drop/build it without the sound alerting marines 2-3 rooms away.
    .trixX.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 907 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Cloaking is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than silence.

    Should be removing that instead.

    If silence is gone then so to are a fair number of gorge tunnels that only last long enough to be used because the piggy is able to drop/build it without the sound alerting marines 2-3 rooms away.

    That makes it even better
    return to zero
    StarkHandschuh.trixX.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 549 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Cloaking is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than silence.

    Should be removing that instead.

    If silence is gone then so to are a fair number of gorge tunnels that only last long enough to be used because the piggy is able to drop/build it without the sound alerting marines 2-3 rooms away.

    Mostly invisible while stationary is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than invisible while outside of marine's FOV + able to move quickly.

    Great logic.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 663 Advanced user
    edited April 28
    Aeglos wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Cloaking is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than silence.

    Should be removing that instead.

    If silence is gone then so to are a fair number of gorge tunnels that only last long enough to be used because the piggy is able to drop/build it without the sound alerting marines 2-3 rooms away.

    Mostly invisible while stationary is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than invisible while outside of marine's FOV + able to move quickly.

    Great logic.

    Well I guess feelings aren't always logical then...

    I could care less if aliens go shift hive because I can still see them when I check my back. (Which I do often) and I can see them hiding in corners or on the ceiling.

    However I feel like there's no point in even continuing when they have shade because they're invisible. I can only spot the cloaked alien like 5% of the time at best, and they have to be moving right in front of me.

    Maybe if I cranked the gamma to max and played on a newer monitor it'd be different... but honestly those are extreme steps to have to take.



    I might also add that nothing makes an average veteran like me more deadly to rookies than cloaking. (And I suck compared to the god-like 4-5k skill players! How much more deadly must it make them!)

    Plus the wildly inconsistent way spotting works via the minimap can make rookies think the marine player is using hacks.

    There's just so much more wrong with cloaking than silence.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 549 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Cloaking is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than silence.

    Should be removing that instead.

    If silence is gone then so to are a fair number of gorge tunnels that only last long enough to be used because the piggy is able to drop/build it without the sound alerting marines 2-3 rooms away.

    Mostly invisible while stationary is much harder (and way less fun) to play against than invisible while outside of marine's FOV + able to move quickly.

    Great logic.

    Well I guess feelings aren't always logical then...

    I could care less if aliens go shift hive because I can still see them when I check my back. (Which I do often) and I can see them hiding in corners or on the ceiling.

    However I feel like there's no point in even continuing when they have shade because they're invisible. I can only spot the cloaked alien like 5% of the time at best, and they have to be moving right in front of me.

    Maybe if I cranked the gamma to max and played on a newer monitor it'd be different... but honestly those are extreme steps to have to take.



    I might also add that nothing makes an average veteran like me more deadly to rookies than cloaking. (And I suck compared to the god-like 4-5k skill players! How much more deadly must it make them!)

    Plus the wildly inconsistent way spotting works via the minimap can make rookies think the marine player is using hacks.

    There's just so much more wrong with cloaking than silence.

    Dude. Even if cloaking was 100%, your location is given away by sound if you're not walking, so you can't even get to position to cloak without the marines noticing for half the engagements.

    Also, the appeal to authority is amusing. Considering a lot of the "god-like" players abuse silence over celerity and usually opted for silence over cloak when they separated them from phantom in comp mod previously.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 907 Advanced user
    4-5k skill players usually go for aura from my experience
    return to zero
    Handschuh.trixX.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 549 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    4-5k skill players usually go for aura from my experience

    :expressionless:
    Yes, and that is relevant when comparing silence and cloak how?
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 663 Advanced user
    edited April 28
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Dude. Even if cloaking was 100%, your location is given away by sound if you're not walking,

    Except that cloaking is not 100%, and if you're not walking you are not cloaked

    Therefore.

    Aeglos wrote: »
    so you can't even get to position to cloak without the marines noticing for half the engagements.

    Isn't very accurate. Unless you are up against the hilariously small minority of marine players that can see cloaked aliens like they're lit up with neon lights, it is super super easy to hold shift and walk into position for an ambush. I do it all the time with great success.

    Aeglos wrote: »
    Also, the appeal to authority is amusing.

    Not sure what you mean by that?
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Considering a lot of the "god-like" players abuse silence over celerity and usually opted for silence over cloak when they separated them from phantom in comp mod previously.

    Considering that the god-like players can see cloaked aliens so hilariously easily, it's no surprise they would chose silence (or anything really) over cloak.



    All I know for certain is that on Alien I can absolutely obliterate rookies (and even some veterans) with cloaking on a skulk. Whereas if I see that I'm up against higher skilled players I don't even bother to try using it, instead opting for focus or aura. -- I basically never use silence unless I'm trying to be a sneaky gorge or to rush a high skill Marine.

    If I'm a Marine and they have cloaking then most of my deaths (if not all of them) are from Aliens I never saw coming. And maybe 10% of the time when they land the first bite I'm able to jump away and survive long enough to land a bullet or two.. I can't remember even a single time I managed to kill an alien that ambushed me with cloak. -- I rarely even notice when they have silence because it has no impact on how good or bad I do at all.


    I just spoke up because I honestly feel like removing silence would be a rather pointless change that would primarily benefit higher skilled players and serve to widen the skill gap.

    If there's one thing this game needs, it's to narrow the skill gap, not widen it.
    Handschuh
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 233 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    I could care less
    :/
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    and if you're not walking you are not cloaked
    Nope! Even if you're walking slow you'll show up on the minimap. The shimmer will also be very noticeable. You have to be perfectly still to not show up on the minimap.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 549 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Dude. Even if cloaking was 100%, your location is given away by sound if you're not walking,

    Except that cloaking is not 100%, and if you're not walking you are not cloaked

    Therefore.

    Aeglos wrote: »
    so you can't even get to position to cloak without the marines noticing for half the engagements.

    Isn't very accurate. Unless you are up against the hilariously small minority of marine players that can see cloaked aliens like they're lit up with neon lights, it is super super easy to hold shift and walk into position for an ambush. I do it all the time with great success.

    The whole point is that you spawn in your hive. To get to your desired location, you can either walk and take forever or wall jump and get there quickly. You aren't going to walk there, so if you aren't there before the marines, they will hear you before they even enter the room.
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Considering a lot of the "god-like" players abuse silence over celerity and usually opted for silence over cloak when they separated them from phantom in comp mod previously.

    Considering that the god-like players can see cloaked aliens so hilariously easily, it's no surprise they would chose silence (or anything really) over cloak.



    All I know for certain is that on Alien I can absolutely obliterate rookies (and even some veterans) with cloaking on a skulk. Whereas if I see that I'm up against higher skilled players I don't even bother to try using it, instead opting for focus or aura. -- I basically never use silence unless I'm trying to be a sneaky gorge or to rush a high skill Marine.

    If I'm a Marine and they have cloaking then most of my deaths (if not all of them) are from Aliens I never saw coming. And maybe 10% of the time when they land the first bite I'm able to jump away and survive long enough to land a bullet or two.. I can't remember even a single time I managed to kill an alien that ambushed me with cloak. -- I rarely even notice when they have silence because it has no impact on how good or bad I do at all.


    I just spoke up because I honestly feel like removing silence would be a rather pointless change that would primarily benefit higher skilled players and serve to widen the skill gap.

    If there's one thing this game needs, it's to narrow the skill gap, not widen it.

    Yeah, you can obliterate rookies with no upgrades too. Really, the difference between cloak and silence is that with cloak your best case scenario is you lock down a room against single marines, while with silence you can pick people off all over.
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 353 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »

    Plus the wildly inconsistent way spotting works via the minimap can make rookies think the marine player is using hacks.

    This is the reason Aliens need a visual indicator if they're cloaked or not... the way it is right now or it was in the playtest is bad, because with or without viewmodel... you don't know how fully cloaked you are for real.
    In NS1 you had left and right the energybar... once you started cloaking due to "Cloaking ability" or a sensory Chamber (/Shade) nearby then you saw a blue Line climing your energy/HPbar going up and you could perfectly see at which moment you were invisible...

    Even though you're not 100% invisible in ns2, a good visual indicator should've been done a long time ago.
    Aeglos wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Dude. Even if cloaking was 100%, your location is given away by sound if you're not walking,

    Except that cloaking is not 100%, and if you're not walking you are not cloaked

    Therefore.

    Aeglos wrote: »
    so you can't even get to position to cloak without the marines noticing for half the engagements.

    Isn't very accurate. Unless you are up against the hilariously small minority of marine players that can see cloaked aliens like they're lit up with neon lights, it is super super easy to hold shift and walk into position for an ambush. I do it all the time with great success.

    The whole point is that you spawn in your hive. To get to your desired location, you can either walk and take forever or wall jump and get there quickly. You aren't going to walk there, so if you aren't there before the marines, they will hear you before they even enter the room.

    This is the whole point why ppl think I'm a superhuman who can see every skulk. I cannot, if I don't concentrate and check every spot in my eyes... I easily oversee a cloaked alien, BUT I hear the alien getting into position ... and when I heard something I check every or the usual spot and I find the skulk... and THEN he thinks I'm a cheater... but in reality he has no clue that I can hear him from a mile away.

    skav2.trixX.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 907 Advanced user
    cloaked skulks appear on the minimap if they are moving. Skulks sitting still won't show up and are much harder to see.

    Even if you have cloak it can work against high level players if you use it in ambush spots most people wouldn't even check if you are not cloaked. Those spots are usually only checked by high level players and only very quickly. With quick glancing you won't be able to spot a cloaked alien, especially if you are in a dark corner.

    Why I think silence is still stronger is not due to the checking behind your back issue but the fact that sound scouting is completely denied that way.

    As explanation: Sound scouting is basically positioning and listening the the sounds aliens make when traveling from point A to B and relaying those informations to the team so they can react accordingly.

    On some maps that work better than on others but to give you an example if you are camping near the powernode in south tunnels (on tram) you will be able to hear aliens entering the vent leading from elevator to observation.
    return to zero
    Vetinari
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,425 Advanced user
    I learned that silence will be removed yesterday. Best news I got all year, probably.

    Can't we hotfix that in right now? Pleeease?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    Stark
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 145 Advanced user
    If silence was so strong then why not make it mostly silent instead of completely? Like 80-85% quite at max.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 233 Advanced user
    Users replace sound files to make them super loud, so even 85% could be like 100% of before. Silence has to be all-or-nothing to make it fair.
    Nordic
  • skav2skav2 Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 145 Advanced user
    Well that's bullocks.

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,607 Advanced user
    Making silence not 100 percent silent was tried in ghouls balance mod. People turned up their volumes to hear it anyways or adjusted their EQ to make hearing skulk steps easier. And what nin said.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    VetinariIronHorse
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 233 Advanced user
    Instead of changing the volume of step sounds, you could instead change the relevancy distance of the sound so that players that are further than X distance hear nothing, but those that are closer would hear the sound at full volume.
    Nordic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,607 Advanced user
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Instead of changing the volume of step sounds, you could instead change the relevancy distance of the sound so that players that are further than X distance hear nothing, but those that are closer would hear the sound at full volume.

    That idea has been tossed around for years. I have been under the impression it needed engine work, or possibly a overly significant amount of dev time.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Vetinari
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 233 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Nintendows wrote: »
    Instead of changing the volume of step sounds, you could instead change the relevancy distance of the sound so that players that are further than X distance hear nothing, but those that are closer would hear the sound at full volume.

    That idea has been tossed around for years. I have been under the impression it needed engine work, or possibly a overly significant amount of dev time.

    I could probably throw it together as a mod, if a vanilla server owner would like to try it out.
    .trixX.
  • XaleXale Paris / France Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24767Members Posts: 94 Advanced user
    edited April 30
    silence has been removed

    It's a huge change. Its good that alien got nerfed, but it's still a bit dispointing because it was part of the game since NS1.0


    Why is seems so powerfull now ?

    I have some answers :

    - More complex geometry (= more place to hide)
    - Marines doesn't have Motion Tracking
    - No weldable vents
    - You can build a Shade even if you don't have a Shade hive (making it more powerfull)


    In time, marine commander use to scout wich evolution alien have and react in consequence. Motion tracking was event better than weapon lvl 2 if movement chamber or sensory chamber first.
    Old NS1.0 player (JP/HMG for the win)
    Mapper (de_mangashop for CS1.6 / CSS / CS:GO )
    Currently Re-Working ns_hera, taking ns2_hera by |-DMD-| Rusty as a base
    Follow advancement here : https://steamcommunity.com/id/xale_gc/screenshots/
    The_Welsh_Wizard
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