NS2 Combat
skav2
Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold
Join Date: 2007-05-28 Member: 61037Members, Reinforced - Gold
Hello all!
Its been a while since I posted on these forums but I thought maybe this idea I had would be a nice addition to the game.
So does everyone remember the combat mod that was made its own game some years ago? Well what if that game was spliced into this one? I dont know the technical or legal ramifications of this but I think it would help a lot of casual people into the game. Combat was fun, fast paced, and not too difficult to get into. This is due mostly to the commander aspect being gone. It has and always will be a problem to get people to want to comm. Its hard and requires more thinking than most people are willing to do.
Also I think we can all mostly agree that Ns2 Combat didnt work out is because there isnt enough people who wanted to play 2 different games. That and most of the people played on ns2. I played on the combat game a few times and it was really fun. It just sucked that there wasnt hardly any one on.
What do you think?
Its been a while since I posted on these forums but I thought maybe this idea I had would be a nice addition to the game.
So does everyone remember the combat mod that was made its own game some years ago? Well what if that game was spliced into this one? I dont know the technical or legal ramifications of this but I think it would help a lot of casual people into the game. Combat was fun, fast paced, and not too difficult to get into. This is due mostly to the commander aspect being gone. It has and always will be a problem to get people to want to comm. Its hard and requires more thinking than most people are willing to do.
Also I think we can all mostly agree that Ns2 Combat didnt work out is because there isnt enough people who wanted to play 2 different games. That and most of the people played on ns2. I played on the combat game a few times and it was really fun. It just sucked that there wasnt hardly any one on.
What do you think?
Comments
That said, you correctly identify a problem in need of a solution. NS2 has many barriers to entry, and the mechanical input ability required to master lifeforms and tech is perhaps the most significant of those barriers for many people (including some who are experienced with other, more tactical and/or realistic shooters). Some of us, myself included, had the advantage of spending years with arena shooters and NS1, but most have not.
Combat (as a mod or official game mode) was an effective solution. It allowed players to iteratively experiment and learn how to succeed in a low-risk, fast-paced, rapidly cycling environment. The drawbacks? Combat's game design has its own, simplified win conditions and abandons the res model. Consequently some players are concerned that combat could encourage bad play insofar as the dynamics are different than in NS2 classic. Specifically, combat doesn't penalize risk in most of the ways that NS2 classic does. But I think it's obvious that this possibility is significantly offset by the overall learning and practice opportunity the mode would provide the greater community with. We'd see more players capable of performing their roles more effectively in classic, and that's only a good thing for the state of play.
The good news: another mod is being worked on. It's called Combat++, and information about it is available here: https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/153603/combat/p1
UWE's long term plans for NS2 are uncertain. We only have an outdated roadmap to consider: https://trello.com/b/njrpasjl/ns2-roadmap
If UWE's current roadmap (which we do not have access to) is intended to culminate in some kind of NS2 re-release or re-branding effort with a marketing push - possibly under a F2P model - then the utility combat offers UWE's vision is even greater. A competitive training mode (in the sense that there are win conditions and it isn't a sandbox) will be necessary for player retention, since the game's mechanical requirements are so dramatic, and because classic is inadequate for lifeform and tech training due to the aforementioned game design / economic model differences, and the constraints presented therein.
In the F2P and/or big marketing push scenario, it would be far better to have combat (or a game mode which closely approximates it) as a formal, officially supported mode for visibility purposes.
The code wasn't written in a great way, but it's not totally incompatible. A programmer could get it working in a few days or weeks in the current NS2 engine. Several people have even got in trouble in the past for ripping pieces of Combat's code into NS2 mods, and that wouldn't be possible if it was "incompatible".
Thanks for the info about Combat ++, that looks promising but I was hoping we could get some serious support on this instead of a Mod that could go anywhere or nowhere. That is why I was curious to see if we could get them to merge the 2 games. Still it is promising news that we have people are still working on this game.
I also agree that to make this game or future releases more appealing to outside players there needs to be more modes they can play. On a reddit post recently I "and others" suggested a story mode, co-op mode, and a hoard mode. Obviously we would want Combat and Siege in there as well. But I really think this very atmospheric game could use a story mode where each mission puts you in different roles while traveling through the different maps and learn a little back story while progressing. That would be some serious fun to learn the interesting lore about this universe.
Co-op mode would be neat too as it would be like story mode but with missions like drop teams, rescue missions, placing bombs etc. Kind of like Battlefield 3 or Socom CA back in the day. Hoard, Combat and Seige are pretty self explanatory since we already have had those modes. Though I would change hoard mode to more of a Call of Duty zombie mode sort of deal. Where there are things placed randomly around that you can buy while traversing through the map to reach extraction.
I think a f2p mechanic could work out very well. Bringing in new players and such. Though with the big caveat that this will also attract hackers. They would definitely need to add more to this game though like the stuff I said previously. Paid cosmetics would be cool like in the DMD servers but also including different color packs for the whole game like black infestation! A leader board system would be pretty cool. Not necessary though. DLC map packs IMO would be awesome. I would not mind paying for some new completed, and supported maps.
Other modes that you described - like co-op etc. - seem better suited to a totally different title, perhaps set in the Unknown Worlds universe. They certainly wouldn't be feasible given the current development resources allocated to NS2, and are well out of scope. Even something like combat is a stretch, which is why I've inquired elsewhere about the possibility of the community-developed combat mod being folded into the official game (assuming it was developed according to the current team's standards). But that would really require more project management resources than are (seemingly) available at the moment, and generally more coordination among all parties involved. There are also legal unknowns along that route (which would not necessarily apply to a game mode that's kept "just" as a mod with community upkeep).
I do think a F2P system would work with NS2, assuming that the devs hit almost everything that was on that original roadmap I linked to. It's a lot of work. Non-immersion breaking cosmetics would be fine (i.e., skins and sounds the devs have created or vetted), but I don't think changing non-player attributes is the way to go. In any event, there are a lot of nuances to a F2P launch and I'm confident that there's a way to do it that would be healthy for NS2 (and even more ways to do it poorly).
I didn't state that it was "totally incompatible" - I didn't even use the word "incompatible". I just said it was outdated and not compatible with the current version of NS2. That statement accords with Ghoul's posts on the matter in the past, as well as Archie's failed/challenging attempts to port elements of NS2C back into NS2. Of course it's true that specific elements could be reintegrated with ease even now; the goal of my comment was just to quickly indicate the scope of the technical challenge of folding the whole game into NS2 (assuming we ignore the legal hurdles for the sake of argument).
I do think a F2P system would work with NS2, assuming that the devs hit almost everything that was on that original roadmap I linked to. It's a lot of work. Non-immersion breaking cosmetics would be fine (i.e., skins and sounds the devs have created or vetted), but I don't think changing non-player attributes is the way to go. In any event, there are a lot of nuances to a F2P launch and I'm confident that there's a way to do it that would be healthy for NS2 (and even more ways to do it poorly).
After thinking a little more on the colors I instantly thought of primary colored skulks and almost threw up. You are correct on the immersion, it is definitely an important factor to consider. More character styles would be nice like they have been doing with the shadow fade / nocturn dlc. They need some more love for the marine side though and a little more consistency.