weapon pickup questions

ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 354 Advanced user
Hi current people running Unknown Worlds Entertainment i have a very curious question and a request

Why do you have to look at your gun directly to pick it up?
Who thought it was a good idea to make it so you have to be looking at your gun directly to be able to pick it up?
Why did this feature get implemented?
Why?

How bloody stupid is that, mid battle see a gun on the ground go to pick it up while shooting *sorry you can't do that dave* panic attack and get killed.

mid battle shooting and drop my rifle to run faster as a technique, sorry you can't pick up your gun again till you look at it? but why and why would you choose to do that, just why?

could you please change it back to the way it was previously, just press g to pickup / drop in the vicinity and give a simple toggle to pick up higher powered weapons if you choose to.

NS2+ disregarded with or without autopickup (i always disable) but the way it has been implemented is infuriating at the highest levels.

I hope we can get a solution or atleast some sort of agreement ASAP

Thanks,
Archie.
IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/

Comments

  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,742 admin
    I made the change, and I don't think it's stupid at all.

    The reasoning behind the change is to fix the much worse problem of picking up welders when you *meant* to drop your weapon.
    See, what happens is usually when a marine dies with an expensive weapon, they drop that weapon, and probably a welder that they were also carrying. Now if we stand over their weapon and press the drop weapon key (while NOT looking at the welder), then they end up picking up the welder instead of dropping their weapon. It's simply a problem of having "drop weapon" and "pickup/swap" weapon share the same key, which we can look into fixing in the future.

    The reason I made this change was because usually when you're manually picking up a weapon off the ground (as opposed to the drop weapon -> let autopickup vaccuum up the other weapon) you're likely in a position where you have the time to look down and decide which weapon to pickup. When you're in the middle of a battle, and there's welders from your dead comrades scattered all over creation, that is NOT the time you want to be wrestling with the drop/pickup/swap nonsense.

    But the bigger reason why I made these changes is because while I was fixing a bug related to picking up a welder when the axe was equipped (it would result in you switching to your pistol, instead of the welder), I asked in our discord, just to get a feel of the room, what people thought about making it so that the welder won't autopickup if the axe is equipped (axe does more damage to harvester, and it's kind of a pain to have to toss it far away while axing a harvester, would be nice to be able to just drop it at your feet). The responses I got quickly switched topics into issues people were having with welders getting picked up instead of being able to drop the weapon they wanted to drop.

    So we discussed it, they made their suggestions, I pointed out potential problems with them, and through the discussion we decided the best change that could be made (in the limited amount of time I had at that moment) was to simply disable the proximity check for manual pickup, and just use the look-at pickup exclusively. It kind of makes more sense too... when was the last time you picked up a weapon with your feet? :)

    What they did NOT do was launch into an angry rant about how stupid we are, or how dumb the feature was.

    I'm not saying the change is perfect -- there's always room for improvement... but I think it's in a better place now than it was before. If you disagree, fine, make an argument for it, not just "how dumb is that???"

    As a final note, I check these forums regularly -- there is no need for you to PM me on steam with a link (and immediately log off before I can say "huh?"). However if you do feel the need to get my attention sooner, perhaps you should post a link to the forum thread, and not the "create new thread" page. ;)
    .trixX.MouseDC_DarklingFrozenSquishpokePOOPFACE
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 354 Advanced user
    edited November 27
    I'd like to say that i admire that you do try and fix these problems with the welder and the picking up of them. But shouldn't it have been kept behind for more quality assurance purposes @IronHorse I remember a time where you press g and it actually swapped the weapon without dropping it and if you dropped it that was simply your own fault for not being in the field of where you can pick up the actual weapon. So what you are saying is that you are trying to improve the feature by breaking it first? i don't see the logical point to doing this when you only need to give dropped weapons a radius for pickup and a scanfield of when a player moves into that field and or if they want to pickup higher grade weapons, atleast this is how it should be done, i think the conflict could be fixed by just having to tap g twice to drop your weapon and once to pickup, that allows for you to run and pick/drop a gun back to a location where it's safe too.

    It is of my opinion that it ruins another feature of the game and i think it should be re-evaluated with below in mind... I am not the only person to bring this up and i thought no one even knew about this change but it turns out just about everyone i spoke to seemed to have a frustration with it too but don't bother to question it because you guys seem to be done and dusted behind closed doors and to go back to what i said, it's very silly/stupid for a game as fast paced as NS2 to have to actively look at the weapon you want to pick up, we're not playing with arrow keys with mono directional key presses we actually require a sequence of actions to direct your movement that includes m@IronHorse

    You surely should have noticed the problem if you did any in-depth testing, you shoot a fade he flys at you, you run out of bullets, press g to pickup shotgun from the person whom died infront of you while aiming at fade but no... you are behind the gun while running g, but now you litterly have to look at it, this slows down and limits your field of view of where you can be looking at one time which makes you vulnerable to attack

    Actually not only that i just did some testing you almost have to take your eyes off the road per se just to accurately pick up a weapon if you are mid-battle.



    Irrelevant part of your post:
    With regards to posting directly to you on steam, remove me from friends if you don't want me to link you to something that i deem important. No need to be smug about it, keep it to PM's or steam chat, i actually logged off steam because i disconnected my connection to a second one and because steam doesn't automatically reconnect you when changing IP's, the server i was on kept spiking on one connection, i didn't bother to log back in because i was trying to play but it then said my client interp was at 2 so i just quit the game because of the connection drop, sorry if that bothered you.
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members Posts: 222 Advanced user
    There are 2 Things that bother me with my current settings (via ns2+) which I cannot resolve without making bigger gameplayissues:
    a) I want to pickup a shotgun quickly (after emptieing my clip) -> but I pickup the welder and die
    If they're close together it is literally impossible to do that really quickly midfight. I just want to throw away my rifle and get the shotgun with the emty slot
    b) It's literally impossible to save 2 Wepaons (my own and the one on the floor) by dragging them to another location... before the change it was possible to spam "G" constantly and run to throw them forward to get it out of a dangerzone... but now that's literally impossible to even drag the weapons effectively for 5meters in a few seconds... it takes ages and you might pickup welders...
    SantaClawsantoupSyk0mAnNousWanderer
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 624 Advanced user
    edited November 27
    I'm fine with having to look at the weapon you want to pickup, it does make sense, you should always handle firearms with eye-contact proper respect :P

    What is truly annoying, is when there are overlapping weapons, it ALWAYS picks up the wrong one...
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 508 Advanced user
    Who are these people in discord? You drop your weapon for mobility to pick up another. You use an axe to melee structures. In what situation would you want to both drop your weapon and use your axe? How does that make sense?

    You might be picking up a welder instead of another weapon, but you wouldn't be trying to drop your weapon. And if you were trying to swap your weapon, well, you can only pick up a welder once. Its much simpler to switch to your weapon to pick up the other than trying to aim for it. No wrestling required and aiming wouldn't solve the first and more reasonable issue of preferring the weapon when they are overlapped.

    I never had a problem tossing my welder "far away" when axing a harvester either. What is the issue there?

    As far as picking up a weapon with your feet, that's a terrible reason. Who says you aren't picking up your weapon with your feet when you look at it? Is there a pick up animation where you bend down that I missed? Have you never picked up anything without looking directly at it? I'd better respect your decision that you think it's a change for the better if you didn't try and bullshit us with irrelevant after the fact reasoning.

    Off topic gripe about recent changes, instant ragdoll dissolve and spawning in the direction you are facing is broken again. Feature or bug?
    NousWandererHandschuhResistor
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,947 Advanced user
    edited November 27
    How about this...
    • If you drop your weapon, just make sure they don't occupy the same space on the floor. I mean I'm sure we're never going to see insane weapon piles like Last Stand has. So, Instead have them push of to the side of another weapon on the floor, so you don't end up with a pile of weapons.
      • [edit]
        This "point at weapon to pick up" obviously is inspired or taken from Last Stand. There we had to change the way it worked, merely because of the sheer amount of stuff on the floor, there was no way around it. But in NS2 "vanilla", this weapon pickup is also tied in to high level play, which is being ignored or wasn't known. Not accusing anyone, just making a dejavu observation :D
        • The most obscure thing about high level play is quite obvious here. Doing stuff around you. ie: picking up things, listening for drops/enemies, predicting enemy movement, all of which while not looking, instead looking in the direction of the enemy targets. This kind of situational awareness is high level or pubstar play. That stuff makes a game flow smoothly, having to stop midbattle/action to look at something to pick it up is, for lack of better word...

          Clunky as shit!
          • You could compare it with knowing the exact timing of item respawns in arena shooters, or listening for what enemies do or where they are amidst combat. To know where, when and what to engage or whether to fallback

      mqdefault.jpg
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Z2Nanbz-4
    • As for axing vs welding and having the axe replaced by the welder in your weapon selection. Well I hate to break it to you, but hasn't the solution been staring in our faces for over 15 years? I do believe it's called the NS knife and welder in subselection weapon slots

      mqdefault.jpg
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRHqqYRolJg
    Post edited by Kouji_San on

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  • ShizzkizzShizzkizz Join Date: 2013-06-22 Member: 185650Members Posts: 2 Fully active user
    edited November 27
    This does need to be fixed in some way. I'd much rather worry about weather a welder gets pick up or not around a harvester then when i'm mid fight and can't pickup the gun i want/need to survive. Gun pickup order should be Shotgun>MG>Rifle>GL>Flamer. Rifle should be middle or low to lowest in priority.

    When first dropping then running a short distance for a shotgun on the floor that a welder is overlapping with a shotgun should be picked up first and switched to never a welder switch. This just causes time loss in two ways and often death because of it. Gun should always take priority of switching to no matter the case.

    Welder Pickup should not switch to the welder automatically unless axe is out. Automatically picking up welders without switching to them should be a separate feature in ns2+ options enabled by default. Enabling by default will help rookies to not miss having a welder for simply not seeing or not understanding what it is.

    There are a few solutions but either my suggestion here or someone else does need to implemented to fix this major issue with weapon pickup at this time.

    NousWandererKouji_San
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,615 Advanced user
    A mixture of having an option for auto weapon pickup (as opposed to manually picking something up), a slot just for welders so it doesn't override the axe, and having the axe be considered a better weapon (so you don't switch to the welder when you pick it up) would prevent this from occurring.
    NousWandererKouji_San
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 173 Advanced user
    edited November 27
    Throwing my support toward the "please rethink this change" crowd. I've agreed where applicable.

    These changes have resulted in some real frustration.

    Also - because it's in the same ballpark of consideration - is the general weirdness surrounding the exo eject mechanic a known bug? I so often have to resort to some combination of spamming and/or holding the eject key because nothing happens, and more than half the time a successful ejection results in me tossing all of my field weapons in the process.
    Kouji_SanHandschuh
  • ItsAFeatureItsAFeature Join Date: 2017-11-27 Member: 234139Members Posts: 1 Freshly registered user
    So
    it's simply a problem of having "drop weapon" and "pickup/swap" weapon share the same key

    If the problem is one so simple, why not just implement that fix instead of changing it so manual pickup becomes a hassle to players.

    People die in fights, picking a shotgun up mid-fight is not a new occurance it's a common thing, why you would think people have the time to casually make sure they're standing looking at the right gun in such a fast paced game is just ridiculous.

    Changing the mechanics from how they've functioned for years is the most absurd change you could make. It would have made more sense to require the player to look at the welder to pick it up than a useful valuable weapon, because a welder isnt something people pick up mid-fight.
    NousWandererKouji_SanHandschuh
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,947 Advanced user
    edited November 27
    Hahah that "shared key for action" to try and "simplify" the game... It sooo reminds me of this bug, complicating the game

    2.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brxofzLUE7I


    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

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  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 508 Advanced user
    So
    it's simply a problem of having "drop weapon" and "pickup/swap" weapon share the same key

    If the problem is one so simple, why not just implement that fix instead of changing it so manual pickup becomes a hassle to players.

    People die in fights, picking a shotgun up mid-fight is not a new occurance it's a common thing, why you would think people have the time to casually make sure they're standing looking at the right gun in such a fast paced game is just ridiculous.

    Changing the mechanics from how they've functioned for years is the most absurd change you could make. It would have made more sense to require the player to look at the welder to pick it up than a useful valuable weapon, because a welder isnt something people pick up mid-fight.

    Back at release, they had a limited number of keys to bind to, if I recall correctly. Not sure if this was/is still the case.
    Kouji_San
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members Posts: 464 Advanced user
    Why not just have an auto pickup for welders only option? Where when you pick up a welder it does not switch to the welder.... maybe a audible ding?

    While I’m dreaming, I wish auto pickup only worked if the gun on the ground had >25% loaded in the clip. Seems like when there’s a fade and 3 SG on the floor and I always grab the empty one....
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 575 Advanced user
    edited November 27
    so before this change if there was a shotgun and welder in a pile (aka anytime there's a shotgun), there was no reliable and quick way to pick up the shotgun. it was a gamble whether or not you'd get it or the welder.

    with this change, you don't actually have to look down or be precise at all. here are the steps to quickly and reliably (100%) pickup a shotgun in a SG/welder pile:

    1. walk over or stand on the pile
    2. drop rifle (G)

    you now have the shotgun, guaranteed. if it's a pile with, say, a shotgun + HMG + grenade launcher... then yeah, it' probably not precise but how often does that happen.

    note: I was able to do this in a local server without ns2+. if it doesn't work for you, check your ns2+ settings for "Weapon Autopickup". it should be enabled. "autopickup better waepon" is the bad option that should be off (otherwise you randomly pickup weapons midfight). autopickup itself is good.
    If they're close together it is literally impossible to do that really quickly midfight. I just want to throw away my rifle and get the shotgun with the emty slot

    that is exactly how it should work now in vanilla. comp servers won't share this functionality due to the whole 'frozenbuild317' mod incompatibility or w.e
    BeigeAlert
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,338 Advanced user
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,947 Advanced user
    Whether or not I like the change, that was a excellent reply.. haha

    Define excellent in this context


    @kingkuma and this is how you ask a question like this :trollface: :trollface:

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  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 58 Advanced user
    How CS:GO handles weapon switching:
    • The game is always looking for weapons nearby that you can pickup into empty weapon slots. You can't turn this off
    • There is a setting in your options to "autoswitch" on pickup. If you have it on, when you pick up a new weapon at your feet, you will switch to it. Most people turn this off.
    • If you have a weapon equipped that you can drop, pressing the "drop weapon" key G will always drop your equipped weapon. The game will then continue searching for weapons nearby that you can pick up, but the one that has been dropped has a cooldown for a few seconds where you cannot automatically pick it up by having an empty weapon slot.
    • If you don't have an empty weapon slot, you can look directly at a weapon and press the "use" key: E (Not the "drop weapon" key which is G!) to switch to it. A prompt is displayed on your screen letting you know what you will switch to, and pressing E on a dropped weapon always immediately switches you to that weapon, no matter what your "autoswitch" setting is.

    I believe this would be a system most people would want.
    Mephilles
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,421 Advanced user
    edited November 28
    My issue is I use the the "drop weapon" key to drop my weapon and always have. For 100 days of gameplay. Why doesn't "drop weapon" drop my weapon anymore? I don't want a weapon swap ability at all.

    Can't we just have both options..? @BeigeAlert
    Post edited by Frozen on
    mattji104
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,338 Advanced user
    Silly Kouji..
    Information, explanation and burn all rolled into one.

    Only lacked strong sarcasm.. ok.. almost excellent. :D
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,947 Advanced user
    edited November 28
    Silly Kouji..
    Information, explanation and burn all rolled into one.

    Only lacked strong sarcasm.. ok.. almost excellent. :D

    The thing is though, they based their entire decision on pub play, it's obvious as they made it without even knowing about how it's used for high level play even since the marine could sprint. They're only focusing on the feature without any context to gameplay/flow. And as usual, they outright ignore people who disagree with them, people who again come up with much better alternatives, just to continue to force it through using the patented and packaged UWE way or the high way shtick, once again.

    -->
    1. Change some feature, HUD, gameplay element (for the greater good)
    2. Observe that it's not working as intended
    3. People who come up with better alternatives, vets who know the game inside and out, probably better then the devs themselves.
    4. Tell them they are reading everything and talking it over "behind the scenes"
    5. Come out with the statement they are still going to push the change through for now, so they can see how it works out (potentially breaking something in the game)
    6. The people who spend time working out alternatives conclude it's not working, UWE concludes they need to adapt and continue to ignore all other, well written viable options
    7. Rage++
    8. UWE blames the community for using mean words, caused by them ignoring them and pushing through their idea. And use that rage argument as a justification for the following decisions. Although they are the one lighting a fire under the community, who are fed up by being ignored and forced into something that isn't working as well as it should or even outright breaking the game
    9. Change gets implemented, thread gets locked and some people get warned or banned. They leave, to never come back or are no longer that interested in playing anymore.
    10. Some rather strange damage control mods/admins is done, using some rather passive aggressive statements
    11. ???
    12. "Profit?"

    ^Right now we're at stage 5 and might even stay there for once, because most vets are gone and kinda see the futility anyway :tongue:

    You know, it's really starting to become a trend with NS2. I kinda lost count how many times they've pulled this off. Sure this one ain't so bad, but heck it is still that trend that is annoying, especially since this is again something that can be fixed in another more gameflow orientated way.



    So "excellent", not quite the word I would use, unless you mean consistency :trollface:

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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,391 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    ...

    Don't forget their 80/20 rule where they implement a broken 80% and then claim nobody used/like it therefor we won't finish it.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 802 Advanced user
    tbh I would like to have a weapon drop/switch system like CS:GO as @Nintendows said
    return to zero
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