Audio improvements?

RejZoRRejZoR Slovenia Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 292 Advanced user
I'm wondering, this game plays a heavy note on audio. It's a very foundation for interaction between marines an aliens. If you listen, you have the edge (or if you make sure you don't make noise). But I'm surprised that game with such emphasis on audio seems to perform so poorly. I've heard it's using FMOD which I know is pretty advanced software audio engine, but in NS2 it just feels awkward at times (really old version of FMOD?). Like hearing things through several rooms even though you shouldn't, audio skipping like you're exceeding the 3D audio channels when a lot of things is going on etc. Can you guys update this part a bit, maybe give control over it in the settings (like ability to control number of 3D channels etc). 3D positioning is good, but the rest just seems a bit broken. I'm using Sound BlasterX AE-5. I was using Sound Blaster Z before and it wasn't much different experience. I mean, these cards have 128 3D audio channels which ensure rich sound stages without any audio skipping or interruption. How many 3D channels NS2 even uses with FMOD? Feels like it's only 16 or 24 at best...
Reinforced - Shadow Supporter | Retired NS2 Playtester | Babblers Fan Club | Gorge Plushie & Gorge Mommy Plushie Owners Club
Kouji_SanNousWandererIeptBarakatpSyk0mAncoolitic.trixX.
«1

Comments

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 7
    3D positioning is awful actually, also there seems to be a huge issue with client side positional sounds. Just listen to it carefully and you can hear yourself moving around your player position.

    I noticed it after walking around for a bit ingame after a long time. And it seems this positional audio issue has become much worse then before and it was already quite... Weird, for lack of better word :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    IeptBarakatcoolitic
  • RejZoRRejZoR Slovenia Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 292 Advanced user
    I can pinpoint enemies very accurately with sound only. The footsteps you hear moving in place is your physical character moving feet as you rotate with mouse. You don't se your legs here, but in games where you do, moving mouse around will make you make steps in palce to rotate the body. FEAR games have physical legs/body and game does that as well. Probably the case here. That was/is my experience.
    Reinforced - Shadow Supporter | Retired NS2 Playtester | Babblers Fan Club | Gorge Plushie & Gorge Mommy Plushie Owners Club
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 8
    Pinpointing enemies isn't really an issue, but the thing is you can only pinpoint their general location within a meter or two. And this is related to their sounds being very laggy and not exactly where they are supposed to be. What I'm talking about is a lot worse than just footsteps vs the direction you're looking at, Quake/Unreal/Goldsrc never had these issues, so what happened. TBH, Spark is the only engine I've ever seen this oddity... The sound system in Spark always was barely acceptable, especially for a fast paced oldschool twitch shooter :worried:

    Let's imagine a simple scenario... Say you're moving forward and take a left turn while reloading your weapon. Chances are you still hear your own footsteps going forward for a bit and taking a wider turn than you actually are taking. So you hear your footsteps and reload sounds on your right, during your left turn. Basically, when you stop moving forward (or any direction), you still hear footsteps going forward (or any direction :D ) for about 200-500ms. Is that the prediction/interpolation lag or something? Also it only get's worse the faster you move. However it's not just footsteps, it's all the sounds you're able to make, ranging from firing, axe swings, jumping, footsteps etc...

    The same goes for all sounds made by everyone else around you, but in this case the server/client side predictions probably lower this latency with it's prediction code that it's doing to display every other player controlled entity on your screen using that lag compensation magic...



    Sidenote:
    All the laggy stuff aside, is FMOD actually able to simulate any proper reverb or dampening effect by walls... Like the unsurpassed hardware accelerated Aureal Vortex A3D used to do?
    Post edited by Kouji_San on

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    NousWanderer
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,736 admin
    edited November 8
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    3D positioning is awful actually, also there seems to be a huge issue with client side positional sounds. Just listen to it carefully and you can hear yourself moving around your player position.

    I noticed it after walking around for a bit ingame after a long time. And it seems this positional audio issue has become much worse then before and it was already quite... Weird, for lack of better word :D

    You _need_ to look into your audio driver settings. I had the same problem with my speakers for a while, before I realized it was because it was trying to do a 5.1 setup when I only have 2 speakers and a sub. So any sound going to the missing two speakers would just be silent. Setting it to stereo fixed it for me. I suspect the lag issue must be somehow related, as that also went away when I set it to stereo instead of 5.1.

    EDIT: A super easy way to test this out is to open up ns2/sound/NS2.fev, and find the hive drop sound effect (or any other loud and long 3d sound). Move your "ear" around and see if the sound plays correctly, or if the volume randomly drops off with the angle.

    EDIT2: Sorry to derail. Back on topic though: my biggest problem with sound in ns2 is how I can hear what's going on in Nanogrid from Marine Start on Veil. Unfortunately, that's a very difficult problem to solve efficiently.
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 90 Advanced user
    edited November 8
    If FMOD in NS2 is using any gain preset effects/attenuation settings that are automated per geometry of rooms for sound occlusion, then they need to be completely redone, as they do not reflect what you would hear in most scenarios. Something in FMOD was done poorly or its just not implemented correctly.
    Kouji_SanNousWanderercoolitic
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 8
    @BeigeAlert, I didn't say I have audio gaps in audio positioning, as that would instantly tell me my sound driver settings are wrong :wink: I said, sound is moving around, when it shouldn't move and is playing in locations it shouldn't play. Like it is positioned by lag compensation or somehow predicted, which is just strange for client side sounds...

    In any case, this has always been an issue, just quite a bit more apparent in the latest builds. Both issues are present when using my onboard Realtek chip or my dedicated Audigy 2 card, with a Sennheiser HD-555 modded into HD-595


    At your EDIT2, so I assume FMOD has no inherent support for reverb and dampening based on walls as I asked about in my second post up in here? Right now it looks like all sounds jut have a preset falloff distance, ignoring any kind of geometry.

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,390 mod
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Let's imagine a simple scenario... Say you're moving forward and take a left turn while reloading your weapon. Chances are you still hear your own footsteps going forward for a bit and taking a wider turn than you actually are taking. So you hear your footsteps and reload sounds on your right, during your left turn. Basically, when you stop moving forward (or any direction), you still hear footsteps going forward (or any direction :D ) for about 200-500ms. Is that the prediction/interpolation lag or something? Also it only get's worse the faster you move. However it's not just footsteps, it's all the sounds you're able to make, ranging from firing, axe swings, jumping, footsteps etc...

    In MvM I often stop to call out that there's an enemy nearby, then realise I was just hearing my own footsteps.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
    Kouji_SanIeptBarakatNintendows
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 9
    mqdefault.jpg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXhO9M3Yr1Y
    -> Excuse the blockyness, I was fiddling around with video bitrate and forgot to reset it to what I usually use

    Some proof of concept sound testing on a dedi-server, also there are some sound videos, showcasing this issue much more clinical and to the point as you PT lads and lassies should've already seen by a certain community member (not sure if you want those public soooo, I'm not linking or namedropping :D ). I mean I've seen them and with this vid I just wanted to jump around on a live server, apparently with some bots to show you the weirdness.

    Also check out the Onos dying at 4:03 btw, the Onos "train go by sound" kept playing after she was splattered :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    IeptBarakat
  • RejZoRRejZoR Slovenia Join Date: 2013-09-24 Member: 188450Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 292 Advanced user
    FMOD does actually support all the fancy features we saw in HW accelerated counterparts from Aural or Creative that runs entirely on CPU, the question is how UWE implemented it and what version of FMOD they are using. I guess it's possible they are using some old version of FMOD that didn't yet have these features or they used it in their own way which over time ended up being a poor choice and is too broken now to be fixed without entirely rewriting the audio subsystem in the game...
    Reinforced - Shadow Supporter | Retired NS2 Playtester | Babblers Fan Club | Gorge Plushie & Gorge Mommy Plushie Owners Club
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 168 Advanced user
    To the extent that an anecdotal account matters to the devs: audio issues were the first thing that three people I've brought into NS2 have complained about (two of them having come from CS:GO).
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 44 Advanced user
    CS:GO has state-of-the-art proprietary audio that no other game really matches right now, so that comparison isn't really fair...
    .trixX.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,736 admin
    To the extent that an anecdotal account matters to the devs: audio issues were the first thing that three people I've brought into NS2 have complained about (two of them having come from CS:GO).

    Can you please expand on this? Which audio issues specifically?
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 168 Advanced user
    edited November 9
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Can you please expand on this? Which audio issues specifically?
    Mainly audio occlusion problems and/or complaints about poor 3D positioning. One of the people found NS2 more tolerable after eliminating all ambient sounds, music, etc. but still felt the 3D positioning was much worse than CS:GO (and perhaps it was; I am in agreement with Nintendows about it being a potentially unfair comparison). RE: occlusion, the issue was hearing things through more walls than one would expect (at greater volumes / with greater clarity than one would expect), leading to incorrect conclusions about nearby enemy locations, and that sort of thing. Your nano / veil example is probably representative.
    Soul_Rider
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 10
    RejZoR wrote: »
    FMOD does actually support all the fancy features we saw in HW accelerated counterparts from Aural or Creative that runs entirely on CPU, the question is how UWE implemented it and what version of FMOD they are using. I guess it's possible they are using some old version of FMOD that didn't yet have these features or they used it in their own way which over time ended up being a poor choice and is too broken now to be fixed without entirely rewriting the audio subsystem in the game...

    Just one thing I have to mention...

    Creative Labs' (EAX) "accelerated 3D audio" is crap, the purest form of crap actually. It's just a bad 3D/surround simulation with loads of echo effects. Also they are responsible for the bankruptcy of Aureal Semiconductor. So please don't mention them in the same sentence as the real Audio gods :) And yes I'm running an Audigy 2, but I was kinda forced into Creative stuff because they were the only big player and that card is still quite acceptable in this day and age, even with the current stuff out... So I've never felt the need to upgrade to those new fancy ones...

    Also, software 3D audio simulation is actually severely lacking in the pureness of the audio signal. Having it simulated on a signal noisy CPU is not even in the same ballpark as a dedicated hardware accelerated sound card, let alone able to provide proper Hz ranges and pure Db gain. There is a reason soundcards still exists if you want proper audio in your games, currently Asus Xonar is probably the endboss in consumer soundcard hardware. And keep in mind, they should be positioned in a slot as far away from the noisy CPU/MEM/GPU, or better yet have an external soundcard.



    But if the Aureal Vortex A3D still had proper drivers and games supporting it, it wouldn't have any trouble outclassing many of these new pseudo-hardware accelerated cards using the main CPU. Be sure to thank Creative Labs for their patent infringement, causing Aureal to go out of business, due to the high legal costs of the lawsuits. In effect eliminating their only competition through illegal means and a hostile takeover afterwards. Oh and of course thank them for their crappy EAX and the loss of support for these epic cards as a result :(
    Post edited by Kouji_San on

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    IeptBarakat
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members Posts: 208 Advanced user
    As much as I'd like to have sounds in ns2 changed /fixed - they are one of the most important tools in the game to make decisions. Changing them in any way will in my opinion certainly lead to new balancing issues.
    IronHorseVetinaripSyk0mAn
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 3,390 mod
    I can't imagine that noise the CS:GO community made when sound occlusion was added.
    -/AUS/- PS_Mouse
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    Handschuh wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to have sounds in ns2 changed /fixed - they are one of the most important tools in the game to make decisions. Changing them in any way will in my opinion certainly lead to new balancing issues.

    Fixing the strange positioning wouldn't have much of an influence though. But hey, I dunno maybe that stuff is so hard coded into the engine that it would require a total rewrite of the sound system as mentioned

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    Mouse
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,331 Advanced user
    @Kouji_San

    The Sennheiser GSX 1000 has the best virtual Surround i ever heard. The Soundstage in combination with an good Stereo Headset (Audio Technica here) is just mindblowing.

    Sad thing is that NS2 didnt really support 5.1 or 7.1 and always had issues with these setups.
    Thats why i have to use my old Asus Phoebus for NS2 cause this card has more options for stereo enhancement.
    image
    Kouji_SanG_Lock
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 10
    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Sennheiser producing cards! They are indeed beastly!


    You know it is actually really sad, the fact that proper sound hardware and support in games is totally unappreciated in our time and the last thing that is tacked onto most people's new rigs... Even in this thread specifically about improving audio, I'm getting this vibe of "meh sound is good enuf on my hardware" :D I'm not even going into people playing with onboard motherboard chips, they simply don't know, they don't know what they're missing :o

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    G_LockSoul_Rider
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 168 Advanced user
    edited November 10
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Even in this thread specifically about improving audio, I'm getting this vibe of "meh sound is good enuf on my hardware
    Just to jump on the hardware parade: I'm currently running a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and Sennheiser HD 598s (with a Studio Projects B1 vocal condenser mic for voice).

    It's certainly the best NS2's audio has ever sounded to me, which still isn't saying much. :P
    Kouji_San
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 90 Advanced user
    edited November 10
    I run a Steinberg UR242 DAC because of my music production and its WORLDS of difference having an audio interface compared to the old Soundblaster Z DAC i used in 2012, running the audio out of the PC into the UR242 then into a Bravo Audio V2 12AU7 tube headphone amp or Schiit Asgard 2 amp into my Beyerdynamic DT 990 600 ohm headphones just obliterates what was coming from the Soundblaster Z i was using 100x over. If your ears want it, there is almost no end for audio fidelity.

    " It casts a lineCast from the soundSource to the Listener if the lineCast hits something, the Occlusion parameter gets tweened & vice versa " - taken from the FMOD forums.

    That was from someone trying to do low level geometry occlusion in Unity which is written in C++ the same as Spark Editor. I'm no programmer but From what Beige has said and what I've read, redoing all the occlusion parameters would take a long time.

    Again it just seems like a sloppy job was done with initial set up of how they wanted to occlude sound.
    Kouji_SanNousWanderer
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 10
    Taking it back into gaming, anecdotal in this case...
    • Playing with other people and asking them. Hmm did you hear that explosion (in the distance), I usually tend to get a solid "nope, what are you on about?"
    • Or the very amusing TF2 spy comedy, where I follow an enemy (disguised or just visible) for quite some time and they simply don't hear me, because I'm walking behind them ( @BeigeAlert, that audio gap issue you mentioned by having your boxes/headphones setup wrong)
    • Hearing doors open or footsteps at a much greater distance than others
    • Hearing footsteps of cloaked spies (or in other games invisible enemies) and then getting acused of hax because I can pinpoint them exactly and shoot them
    • Shooting people through walls, because I heard them or anticipating their movement around a corner (again with the usual hax accusations)

    ^And all of this is on a rather simple Audigy 2 even, which isn't even that great compared to proper cards, but still vastly superior to what most people have. But then gain I do have those Sennheiser Headphones...


    I've also knew someone that was a bastard in Goldsrc Half-Life DM, Quake and UT, We had some fun with all of us against him at a LAN party (FYI for the youngsters, we used to drag our PC's around to someone's home or garage and have an actual LAN party :D ) Anyway, that guy had the complete hardware accelerated setup using Aureal A3D Vortex and he could basically wreck our entire team on his own, pinpointing us using only sounds. Insane aiming and movement skills alongside a vastly superior sound system.

    TBH that was kinda scary to go up against, even with my well above average "pubstar" skills. Only me and a buddy of mine were able to kill the guy, ending a particular HLDM match in 150 vs 2 kills with 1 vs ~10 :D I did kick his ass in other FPS's like Forgotten Hope a BF1942 mod, even though he was still by far the hardest enemy to go up against!


    Fun fact, we tested him as well. He could even shoot us ~7/10 in a non deathmatch test environment, with his expensive 100HZ CRT monitor turned off


    Just goes to show how important proper sound systems are for situational awareness, which is ultimately the most important thing in FPS, especially multiplayer
    Post edited by Kouji_San on

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    G_LockNousWanderer
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,264 Advanced user
    edited November 10
    To be fair, a few of the people I tried to get into NS2 originally couldn't get into it because of the audio. I struggled at first as the the confusion from your own footsteps, and the lack of proper occlusion really made the game hard in the early days.

    @Kouji_San I too thought there was no other option than a soundblaster after creative killed A3D. I make music, so was using the Audigy Platinum Ex.

    Then I realised for pure sound, and for better sounding music, I needed something even better than creative, so I got one of these 7 years while living in the Tulip Capital:

    http://tascam.com/product/us-1641/

    It has no 3D enhancements, or any of that stuff, but the sound quality and a quality set of stereo headphones more than makes up for that in games that implement audio well. I am still using it now, and my music also sounds better, even if the quality of the production hasn't improved :P

    Games:Subnautica Fan Game Mods: GorgeCraft & CTF & Proving Grounds Website: andysoulrider.uk
    Twitter: @AndySoulRider Twitch: Twitch.tv/SoulRider YouTube: Youtube.com/user/IamSoulRider/videos

    Capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
    Knowledge is gained through listening, Understanding is gained through discussion.
    Kouji_San
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 10
    Back in the day I was just looking for a quick replacement for my Vortex that broke and lost most driver/game support :disappointed: Audigy 2 was the shit according to most reviews and the price was alluring as well :D



    Hmm, now that we've determened that Spark's Audio systems, to keep it E for everyone...

    "needs work"


    So dev type peeps who are reading this thread, what can we provide as community members in terms of material/logs/cookies to get this shit fixed and how realistic is this even with Spark's code stuff. And besides coming across as a bunch of elitist audiophile dic meanies <- Almost went PG13 there :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,280 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Sennheiser producing cards! They are indeed beastly!


    You know it is actually really sad, the fact that proper sound hardware and support in games is totally unappreciated in our time and the last thing that is tacked onto most people's new rigs... Even in this thread specifically about improving audio, I'm getting this vibe of "meh sound is good enuf on my hardware" :D I'm not even going into people playing with onboard motherboard chips, they simply don't know, they don't know what they're missing :o

    Motherboard integrated soundcard pleb here.

    Sound is something I have zero frame of reference for, and my setup works for me, so why invest money into something at the risk of it not being worth it? :P
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
    Kouji_SanSoul_Rider
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 11
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Sennheiser producing cards! They are indeed beastly!


    You know it is actually really sad, the fact that proper sound hardware and support in games is totally unappreciated in our time and the last thing that is tacked onto most people's new rigs... Even in this thread specifically about improving audio, I'm getting this vibe of "meh sound is good enuf on my hardware" :D I'm not even going into people playing with onboard motherboard chips, they simply don't know, they don't know what they're missing :o

    Motherboard integrated soundcard pleb here.

    Sound is something I have zero frame of reference for, and my setup works for me, so why invest money into something at the risk of it not being worth it? :P

    Heheh I don't blame you, however therein lies the problem with marketing for soundcards :D For graphics cards it's all visual and you can watch video's or see stuff in a store. CPU and memory are both self explanatory, you get speed and stuff. As for soundcards... You can't really "see" it in video's and even in most stores they aren't talked about or possible to "test". And since most people buy their stuff online and check stuff on YouTube mostly, that sound kinda loses it's edge.

    But trust me, you don't even have to go super expensive to get a much better sound experience. It's just, if you want epic sound or crackly low noise to signal ratio sounds, lacking any kinds of proper 3D positioning and fidelity. Gotta get a proper headset/phones as well though, to fully utilize a soundcard, otherwise you're indeed left in the "wtf, why did I get this soundcard, I hear no difference" crowd


    Just look at my earlier post of what you could be missing in some fancy and humorous anecdotal scenarios :tongue: And perhaps go into an audio store or some place where you can actually "test" these things with proper head phones. So you can judge it, if it's worth it for you. For me personally a game's sound is very important for immersion and proper 3D positioning (if the card and game support it), TBH sound can make but certainly can break a game

    Sound has to be experienced for it to make sense, I guess

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

    Vetinari
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,280 Advanced user
    You summed my thoughts up perfectly.

    But you know what? Maybe I'll look into it, when I have some time.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
    G_Lock
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,264 Advanced user
    edited November 11
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Sennheiser producing cards! They are indeed beastly!


    You know it is actually really sad, the fact that proper sound hardware and support in games is totally unappreciated in our time and the last thing that is tacked onto most people's new rigs... Even in this thread specifically about improving audio, I'm getting this vibe of "meh sound is good enuf on my hardware" :D I'm not even going into people playing with onboard motherboard chips, they simply don't know, they don't know what they're missing :o

    Motherboard integrated soundcard pleb here.

    Sound is something I have zero frame of reference for, and my setup works for me, so why invest money into something at the risk of it not being worth it? :P

    In the good old days, when games were simpler, there were very few things to clue you in on the whereabouts of enemies, think games like Counter-Strike, no shadows, no rubble kicking around. So the main thing you had to use to find enemies was sound. (Note A3D was basically dead by the time of CS anyway, but it's a game your most likely to have a reference for to understand what I mean.)

    People spent a lot of time and effort producing accurate 3D positioning audio, as mentioned A3D were the absolute best at positional audio at the time. Is the A3D option still there in Half-life btw?

    Anyway, Creative killed them buy buying them and letting the technology die, and we had to make to with creatives not as good hardware 3d audio. Your on-board system probably has some form of hardware positional audio built into it in thesettings.

    With the best audio positioning software dead, and things like shadows and dynamic lights coming into the games, relying on sound, dropped in importance. It tends to only be audiophiles nowadays, those for who sound tends to be more important than visuals, that really become aware of the benefits of good audio in games, largely because they are the only ones who bother with discrete audio and thus experience the game benefit by accident.

    For me, sound is more important than graphics in a game. A game with great sounds and bad visuals will keep me entertained longer than a game with great visuals and bad sound.
    Games:Subnautica Fan Game Mods: GorgeCraft & CTF & Proving Grounds Website: andysoulrider.uk
    Twitter: @AndySoulRider Twitch: Twitch.tv/SoulRider YouTube: Youtube.com/user/IamSoulRider/videos

    Capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
    Knowledge is gained through listening, Understanding is gained through discussion.
    Kouji_San
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 14,850 Advanced user
    edited November 11
    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about Sennheiser producing cards! They are indeed beastly!


    You know it is actually really sad, the fact that proper sound hardware and support in games is totally unappreciated in our time and the last thing that is tacked onto most people's new rigs... Even in this thread specifically about improving audio, I'm getting this vibe of "meh sound is good enuf on my hardware" :D I'm not even going into people playing with onboard motherboard chips, they simply don't know, they don't know what they're missing :o

    Motherboard integrated soundcard pleb here.

    Sound is something I have zero frame of reference for, and my setup works for me, so why invest money into something at the risk of it not being worth it? :P

    Is the A3D option still there in Half-life btw?.

    I believe the latest compatible drivers for the Aureal cards are for Windows 98 SE, so I guess you'd have to run in compatibility mode or actually run on an oldschool PC from the time :D

    Here's Phill with his PC from that era, this actually works as a demo for non-A3D users as well, just slap on some headphones/earbuds etc... Might even convince you @Vetinari. Beware as this might tickle your ears :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly
    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue
    102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting | Play the Latest Version of Booster Z-Frame
    YouTube NS2 Playlists: Unusual Selection | NS2 Stuff | NS2PT | NS2 Tuts

  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 520 Advanced user
    Dont do anything devs, just rename the game "the one with the highest volume selection 2"
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.