MARINE JUMP broken since today's patch
BauerJankins
GERMANY, WASHINGTON Join Date: 2016-04-14 Member: 215772Members
GERMANY, WASHINGTON Join Date: 2016-04-14 Member: 215772Members
in Veteran
Hello I am really sad because your patch broke the mechanic most dear to me in this game - marine movement.
The problem is as follows: your marine, since today's patch, now always makes sounds on the initial jump. You can be standing still or moving, crouched or standing up, you will always make noise on the INITIAL JUMP. Here I need to clarifiy, since a lot of people are having trouble understanding my concerns, there are 2 different sounds connected to jumping: the sound you make when you press space, right as you lift off; and the sound you make when you land on the ground. Those two are very different in terms of impact on the game and in their ways of reproducing them.
The way it used to be you could do a lot of SILENT jumps, moving around the map SILENTLY, for example speeding up movement in vents, jumping up props, and basically just getting places you'd otherwise not get to, faster than just crouching, and that silently. There is more to this than just the initial jumping mechanic, the way you land factors in a lot whether or not you make noise with a jump, but that is not something I want to write an article about right now.
I really just want to put this out there right now and see if the devs have anything to say to this, if this is an intentional or unintentional change and see if we can get some answers.
Because the way this is right now I can't play the game if yet another skill-mechanic is just SILENTLY taken out of the game by the devs, whether it was intentional or not.
The problem is as follows: your marine, since today's patch, now always makes sounds on the initial jump. You can be standing still or moving, crouched or standing up, you will always make noise on the INITIAL JUMP. Here I need to clarifiy, since a lot of people are having trouble understanding my concerns, there are 2 different sounds connected to jumping: the sound you make when you press space, right as you lift off; and the sound you make when you land on the ground. Those two are very different in terms of impact on the game and in their ways of reproducing them.
The way it used to be you could do a lot of SILENT jumps, moving around the map SILENTLY, for example speeding up movement in vents, jumping up props, and basically just getting places you'd otherwise not get to, faster than just crouching, and that silently. There is more to this than just the initial jumping mechanic, the way you land factors in a lot whether or not you make noise with a jump, but that is not something I want to write an article about right now.
I really just want to put this out there right now and see if the devs have anything to say to this, if this is an intentional or unintentional change and see if we can get some answers.
Because the way this is right now I can't play the game if yet another skill-mechanic is just SILENTLY taken out of the game by the devs, whether it was intentional or not.
Comments
Marines are already WAY too mobile as it is. As for "skill-mechanic". Give me a fucking break. It consists of you holding crouch and +forward and then jump and time a +back. This is a trick that relies on having that exclusive knowledge, it's not a difficult skill mechanic. And I don't really think it should have a place even if it was super difficult to pull off.
I say good riddance, even though it's gonna affect my play.
Because moving around the map silently by exploting movement (which is more than always JUST jumping around with W and sfopping midair) is not skilled xddd
Because pulling off certain jumps aliens wouldnt expect you to isn't skilled xddd
Because sneaking should be completely removed as a whole right? Xd
"* Fixed that the damage taken/flinch sound effects didn’t play after the first time. We are planning to redo the complete flinch sound system in one of the next builds to make the damage feeback more consistent."
You can now hear continued pain sounds from first person and in the world, when taking multiple hits from Hydras or lerk spikes etc. Previously it would only play once.
As mentioned in the changelog, there are still many issues with damage sounds that we've identified and it will require a refactor on how the flinch/sound system works. (this is planned)
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In fixing this, we obviously fixed other items unintentionally that have existed for a long time such as this hidden mechanic.
In short: If this bug is desirable and creates a bit of depth or more interesting play, we can re-incorporate it into the game in a proper manner.
This essentially means : communicated or observable and thus more likely to be discovered by your average player, more than likely through revised animations and other means.
EDIT: to clarify.. since the results of crouch jump is the same whether you crouch immediately or 20 ms into a jump, (as opposed to HL1 movement) this means that you can press crouch at the same time as jump and we can use this to nullify the initial sound made. And since crouch jump is used most often in the scenarios you provided (vents, props, getting up higher to places) it makes sense to make it so only crouch jumping allows for the silent execution - but the animation will have to look notably different, since currently jumping and crouch jumping play the same animation..
If that's good enough for all of you then read no further.
If you'd like more of a lengthy rant or reasoning behind the decision:
We support clearly communicated or observable mechanics that therefore can be intuitive or learned through experience, especially against other players.
Walljumping was initially a bug.. but it allowed for some interesting depth and was highly observable for all to see and learn from, and thus felt like a good fit.
The same can be said about bunnyhopping in Quake, whereas it was unintentional and began as an exploit it quickly became the defacto means of movement.
Now, I really wish to distinguish between observable, intuitive, and/or communicated skillful mechanics that lend to depth vs hidden ones.
When knowledge or awareness of a hidden mechanic is the only defining threshold to get an advantage, we as a team consider it a damaging thing and worth fixing and/or communicating to others if it's to stay.
The skill should be in mastering the mechanic that lends depth, not relying on being friends with the specific person who informs you of said mechanic.
I hope that helps explain a bit of the reasoning behind the decision to keep the unintended mechanic, but modified to be more observable.
If you have any further questions on the topic feel free to ask in our discord, as I no longer frequent these forums unless it's a technical support issue, but was asked to respond to this thread as it appears to be an important issue for some. Thanks everyone for bringing up this matter and approaching it in a friendly manner.
Trick jumps are great. I love trick jumps. But don't make them SILENT!
Sneaking should not be completely removed - you should just sneak in the intended movement speed instead of exploiting a bug.
Before the patch when marines did the crouchjump the marine heard nothing and the alien could hear it BUT this sound was significantly more silent so it was easy to overhear and gave more depth for sneaking...
I once tested it out with someone else and the range was significantly less than a normal jump sound
For me it would be fine to hear the crouchjump if the sound would be more silent!
It's a nice feature because it is still hearable!
yespls!
are you going to try working on this issue again @IronHorse ???
You could say that about a lot of things.. like ns1, but this bug/feature like bunnyhopping (especially the marine-jumps) were things that made the game so great... that there is a high skill ceiling, that you could improve on other aspects then just aim like counterstrike. A game which is so rich in variety that you can always find things to improve upon or learn...
Are you trying to silence silence movement?