NS2_derelict_fixed

pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by NatureGermany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
edited August 14 in Mapping
Improvements to performance and gameplay of Derelict - WIP

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1110492476
publish_id = "4230c53c"

Always felt it's a shame that this map is so underplayed.
Loki did a fantasic job with the visuals, the gameplay geometry for skulk movement and overall mood of the map.
But performance is terrible, the map is a bit too dark and some techpoint locations are just too open and lack more cover for aliens.
So I'm trying to fix things.

Changelog:
-Improved/Fixed Occlusion Geo (still messy in some places, but seems to be working)
-Added some rocks and more Occlusion Geo to Glass Hallway / Biome area to improve performance
-Removed many lights from the low light quality option
-Made the map slightly brighter, if you use low quality light option
-Removed "inefficent" props in the map (as in props, which weren't needed to maintain look and detail)
-Removed some lights and lot of tree and plant props at Turbine and Heat Transfer (and yet theses places are still lagging as hell, damn those plants)

-Added two more pillars and another Truck into Garage
-Added more sandrocks into Geothermal to cover the hive
-Added more of those tarp thingies in Western Entrance
-Covered one of the windows in Plaza with moss, added a 3rd row of pipes, and scaled up the crate in the middle of Plaza
to block view for better ambushing and to improve performance
-Modified pathing mesh, so you can cyst across the broken bridge in Plaza
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5326if148yyu.jpg


Still to do:
-Further improvements to performance and gameplay
-Fixing all those tiny cracks throughout the entire map



VetinariLasKasharicSupaFredBeigeAlertG_LockantouLoki

Comments

  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 90 Advanced user
    The 3 maps Derelict, Kodiak and Eclipse never get played at all, they all look great and have workable layouts. I'm sure their creators spent large amounts of time flushing out initial map layouts/flow, they just needed some tweaking/reworking that was unfortunately never done after releasing them. Unlike maps like Docking, that at one point had half its map layout changed to make it more viable, these 3 maps (aside from small room edits or moved vents) never really had any serious layout changes done.

    Out of all the maps, theme wise, Derelict is my favorite.. but i never get to play on it =(
    I hope the other 2 get to see some welcome mapping love as well.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,277 Advanced user
    G_Lock wrote: »
    The 3 maps Derelict, Kodiak and Eclipse never get played at all, they all look great and have workable layouts. I'm sure their creators spent large amounts of time flushing out initial map layouts/flow, they just needed some tweaking/reworking that was unfortunately never done after releasing them. Unlike maps like Docking, that at one point had half its map layout changed to make it more viable, these 3 maps (aside from small room edits or moved vents) never really had any serious layout changes done.

    Out of all the maps, theme wise, Derelict is my favorite.. but i never get to play on it =(
    I hope the other 2 get to see some welcome mapping love as well.

    There was an attempt to fix eclipse; the project is currently abandoned. The map ended up playing a bit better but it was never great. It doesn't help that eclipse uses a lot more props where other maps would use geometry, making it harder to change things. I think eclipse5 showed some promise, though. Wasn't that also psyk's project?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    In my opinion there are no big issues with Eclipse and Kodiak. They are both played way more than Derelict.
    Their two main problems are:
    -Late addition to mappool, when players were already familiar and happy with plenty of other maps. Learning a new map can be frustrating, when map knowledge is so important to victory.
    -Maps aren't played in NSL; doesn't apply to Refinery, Mineshaft and Docking which were released way earlier

    Both maps add diversity to the NS2 mappool with their look and gameplay, there will always be maps less played and maps not suited for competitive play.
    Considering that even the most played maps have issues, especially with certain spawn-combinations, fixing some minor balance problems won't help much with the less played maps.

    Athough Eclipse_five might be a nice variation of Eclipse, its layout is out of range to be considered a proper remake.


    SupaFredG_Lock
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 90 Advanced user
    edited August 16
    The servers i play on don't even have Derelict, Kodiak or Eclipse loaded on to them because there considered maps that empty the server. =(
    Vetinari
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Yeah, well hard to please the tram/veil/summit crowd :p

    Anyway, I've done further performance improvements.
    Basicly jumping and leaping through the map as skulk over and over with r_stats on and checking fps or feeling the lags.
    Then I remove props or lights from low_lights where possible. Especially those derelict_vines props are very very baaaad props and there are a lot around Turbine.

    I've also made a few improvements for skulks in some of those longer corridors to have some more cover spots.


    Vetinari
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    edited August 18
    Got some more improvements done.
    Turbine primitives reduced from ~2 million to ~1 million at the toughest spots and that count is still one of the highest in the entire map.
    The position of the readyroom is making trouble as expected, because it affects the fps in Glass Hallway, Biome and Western Entrance.
    Maybe the whole readyroom area should be lowered even more...

    I've also improved Nursery.
    -Removed white lights above the carousels, because this room had too many distracting white lights and wasn't even bright.
    -Added obstacles, created space between the vines and carousels for aliens (screenshot without decals) so they have a better chance to engage in that big, rather open room.
    vyco29e3iay8.jpg


    SupaFred
  • LokiLoki Join Date: 2012-07-07 Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team, Pistachionauts Posts: 560 mod
    Will be nice to test these out on sunday :)
    Creator of ns2 Kodiak, ns2 Derelict, ns2 Discovery, sws ctf Eden , ls_hera, ls_storm, ls_frost, ls_troopers and undertaking the remake of ns2 Shiva and ns2 Ayumi (maps currently on hold)
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team, Pistachionauts Posts: 704 admin
    Definitely like the changes. Lots of good reworking of areas, and perf is much, much better.
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
    Steam / Watch live video from zavaro on Twitch / Twitter
    Have a bug in NS2? Report it in the thread! If you can, post how to reproduce it, or private message me on the forum!
    BeigeAlertVetinaripSyk0mAnG_Lock
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    edited August 21
    Yeah I'm still getting FPS-lags in some areas, but my PC is shit anyway and if I remove more props now, it becomes too obvious.

    I thought about more vents tho, because this map is lacking vents compared to Summit. There aren't enough shortcuts for Aliens.
    hpz0pu6oxhlq.jpg
    -A rather long vent from Biome to Overlook, which also connects to Plaza.
    If that vent is too long, I could also make it from Biome to Plaza and then another one nearby from Plaza to Overlook. Maybe better that way..
    -Another vent exit from Garage to Turbine near Admin. Right now that corridor is awfully long and the vent doesnt help much, because one Marine can cover both corridor and vent exit.
    -Removal of the vent exit from Garage into Admin, because it's too easy for Aliens to baserush marines in Garage and the other exit into Alley/Overlook is good enough to flank/bypass. The new vent exit in Turbine/Admin from Garage would make up for this.


    Kasharic
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Update:
    -Added vent from Biome/Lookout to Plaza
    -Added vent from Plaza to Admin/Overlook
    -Added a second vent exit in Turbine
    -Replaced some glass pipes with solid ones in Glass Hallway, so aliens can hide on top
    -Slightly moved the hanging grating tile blocking the glass hole in Geotherme, so aliens can move around on all sides
    -More general improvements, yada yada
    n329e479fx8g.jpg


    Kasharic
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,277 Advanced user
    While you're working on vents - maybe it would be worth taking a look at some of the tech points in that regard. You fixed geothermal, and Garage has some decent cover now, but all tech points only have two easily covered entry/exit points, and Atmosphere and that tech point in the west are pretty wide and open. Assaulting them as alien might be a problem.

    I honestly have no idea if this is a problem in practice, though. Derelict gets played so rarely.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Yes, definately.
    I put some more stuff into Western Entrance, but it's still too open and high and there is barely any cover for aliens to get up to the ceiling from the hive. I thought about some tarp thingie hanging from the ceiling half loose.
    Atmospheric Seeding seems to be rather ok, but I still think it's the worst starting hive right now, because it lacks some kind of connection/vent from the right exit Botany to the left res-room Biome.
    Also the Garage-Alley went needs to be wider and rebuild. Aliens can't pass other aliens in those tight tubes.


    Vetinari
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, Community Dev Team, Pistachionauts Posts: 704 admin
    As @Mephilles said on Discord, quick rotation time through Plaza was something that has proved difficult for aliens to combat. More testing is definitely required, though.
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
    Steam / Watch live video from zavaro on Twitch / Twitter
    Have a bug in NS2? Report it in the thread! If you can, post how to reproduce it, or private message me on the forum!
    pSyk0mAn
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    edited August 28
    According to wonitor this was a pretty low elo game. Headless skulks are adding to that problem. I've seen high elo games on Thirsty Onos (thanks Supafred!) and aliens did better.
    Nevertheless it is at least a minor problem, but I don't see any elegant ways to increase traveltime.
    For now I've made the entrance from Plaza into Nursery less wide, so marines have to expose themselves more to harass the harvester.

    I'm thinking about a vent from the right exit of Atmospheric to Biome to improve the situation for aliens starting in Atmospheric. Faster rotation from Nursery to Biome without using open Plaza. Exit on the higher level of Biome, so it doesn't decrease travel time from Atmospheric to Plaza, to increase the usage of this higher level in combat. Usable by aliens and marines from both sides except onos and exo, so it's not too easy to baserush marines in Atmospheric.
    It's a bit like the vent from Comp Lab to Ventilation in Summit.
    pofisioy12tk.jpg


    RadimaX
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Vent between Atmospheric and Biome has been added as described above.
    Check it out on Thirsty Onos or Woozas !


    Kasharic
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 789 Advanced user
    How about you use something to block plaza in a way that marines have to rotate through administration to get from east plaza to west plaza? That should increase rotation times between nursery and biome for marines at least.

    I think a crashed train might work :tongue:
    return to zero
    Kasharic
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    I think a crashed train might work :tongue:

    How could I miss the most elegant way to do this!

    Anyway, Imho Plaza is an integral part of the map the way it looks and plays, and I can't think of anyway to block the whole middle part that doesn't look artifical or needs so much detailing that fps go down again. Putting something in there and maybe adding another u-turn walkthrough on the opposite side of Administration should be a last resort, if the map was failing completely.



  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 461 Advanced user
    Pipe collapse with rubble or another truck, or something like that could work. I'm not sure.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Thanks Kash, but I'm not sold on it.
    I'd rather have something done with the exits in Plaza on both sides. Like blocking the broken bridge entrance from the front to increase traveltime. Not a fan of this either tho.

    I've added a few more decals to the new vent exit in Biome for better visuals,
    removed more stuff from commander view,
    fixed a few more holes and misaligned textures,
    and widened the outer walls of Infested Corridor, so aliens can use the wall pillars for cover when charging through that rather long corridor.

    I'm happy with the additions for now, every hive room got its necessary additional cover spots and vents, so now the map just needs playtesting and getting more popular.
    Recommend it to your fellow, local server admin, spread the word!


    KasharicSupaFred
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Update:
    -Fixed a few ambient sunlights, which were affected by power
    -Slightly decreased the size of the pipes above Geothermal
    -Added a broken pipe section inbetween to make it harder for bilebombing gorges to hide
    -Highlighted the top of the ladders so new players hopefully realize more quickly how to get up there
    -Adjusted surrounding rocks so players can get up on the pipes via the rocks, too


    The_Welsh_WizardVetinariSupaFredKasharic
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver Posts: 1,583 Advanced user
    Update:
    -Removed a lot more ceiling geo and props from commander view, especially around Administration.
    Should be easier to drop medpacks now
    -Updated the minimap on the loading screen


    KasharicIeptBarakatmoultanoSupaFred
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, Pistachionauts Posts: 4,164 Advanced user
    Are there prospects for this and summit_andabove to go official?
    The_Welsh_Wizard
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 461 Advanced user
    moultano wrote: »
    Are there prospects for this and summit_andabove to go official?

    I think the only way you're going to get an answer to that is to discuss it with the devs on discord tbh.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    IeptBarakat
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,733 admin
    Kasharic wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    Are there prospects for this and summit_andabove to go official?

    I think the only way you're going to get an answer to that is to discuss it with the devs on discord tbh.

    SILENCE.
    McGlaspieKasharic
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