Player retention/New Players

WebtranceWebtrance US Join Date: 2013-11-08 Member: 189165Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 59 Fully active user
July 5th, 2017. This is what a brand new NS2 player experiences. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156967394

He was very forgiving of the game and unbelievably lasted a full hour. I doubt he'll ever play it again. I remember when I first started, there was no tutorial, no bots, no rookie mode/servers, etc. I jumped right in and learned from top tier players among other rookies and friends. What to do about it...hmmm.

Off base: What if a new person joins (under 500 elo let's say) and they're "tagged" or matched with a higher skilled player (2000+ elo perhaps). Tagged meaning they see their "mentor" as a colored/highlighted player on the field and map. It's indicated on the scoreboard as well. The "mentor" would see who they've been assigned on the scoreboard. Now get out of base, work together and have fun!
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Comments

  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 908 mod
    TGNS Portal | NS2 side-by-side game viewer
    IronHorse wrote: »
    TG's win or lose mod that replaces the concede function is the best of both worlds and should be official.
    coolitic
  • xtalxtal X-rayCat Join Date: 2009-06-28 Member: 67961Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 71 Fully active user
    He didn't get the training, but some players just pass training and learn during the game. NS2 always lacked some newcomers pop-up style hints and I don't know why they never been added. Cheap feature but helpful.
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 424 Advanced user
    xtal wrote: »
    He didn't get the training, but some players just pass training and learn during the game. NS2 always lacked some newcomers pop-up style hints and I don't know why they never been added. Cheap feature but helpful.

    Tutorial videos existed for a long time... most still do I believe.

    The problem is they are steadily going out of date and not being replaced due to low numbers in staff and no real funding. The videos would pop up on your screen in game and describe something... but I believe you can turn off the tutorial videos in your options, and I don't know if they are now off by default or not.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    .trixX.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,631 Advanced user
    I don't really have any sympathy for someone who hasn't tried the tutorial or at least played an online match and asked for help.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    The_Welsh_WizardVetinari.trixX.Silentman
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,312 Advanced user
    edited July 7
    Wyzcrak wrote: »
    I am assuming you are looking for my copy and paste about coaching/mentoring being the wrong approach to player retention.

    This is the usual one.
    Nordic wrote: »
    ROOKIES DO NOT NEED VETERANS TO TEACH THEM! Coaching and mentor programs have been tried before and have not had any success. This alone is enough to prove that veterans trying to teach rookies has little or no effect on player retention.

    Coaching/mentoring would be unwanted by the majority of rookies. I know this because it already is. Go on any pub server with any amount of rookies and you will have a hard time finding even one that is willing to actually listen to you. These players only play the game for 2 hours and quit forever regardless of any training.

    The people who would benefit the most from coaching are more intermediate players who are willing to seek it out already.

    Coaching, mentoring, or whatever you want to call it is just not worth any time or effort.

    Rookies really do not need veterans to teach them. If you do not believe me watch the videos in this spoiler.
    These guys have never played ns2.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpGxHqwfDb4
    These guys had some minor practice before hand but almost all of them are total rookies.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlXwGSVHC1U
    This is a full round on a rookie only server.
    http://www.twitch.tv/calego/v/38082162

    In those videos you will see that rookies do indeed learn the game on their very own. Sure, they do not play the way we veterans expect them to but that is not the point. Rookies are very new to the game and they do not know what things are. Let them learn at their own pace so that they are more willing to continue learning when they get to regular servers.

    Rookies do not need veterans to teach them.


    There was a well written post about coaching/mentoring from @NousWanderer called RECLAIMING THE VALUE IN ROOKIE SERVERS: INTRODUCE NON-ROOKIE COACHES & COMMS. If you would like to read a more in depth response, read there.

    xtal wrote: »
    He didn't get the training, but some players just pass training and learn during the game. NS2 always lacked some newcomers pop-up style hints and I don't know why they never been added. Cheap feature but helpful.
    NS2 has almost always had annoying newcomer pop-up style hints. The used to even used to be little videos that described what was going on in Hugh's voice. Those are gone, but we still have pop up hints. Go to your Settings -> General and turn on hints to see them. The problem is that almost any hints or text on the screen is ignored by most players.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    Please do not awesome anymore of my posts. I have 888 awesomes, and I would like to keep it that way.

    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
    cooliticResistor
  • WebtranceWebtrance US Join Date: 2013-11-08 Member: 189165Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 59 Fully active user
    coolitic wrote: »
    I don't really have any sympathy for someone who hasn't tried the tutorial or at least played an online match and asked for help.

    Yep. That Guy has no idea at all what kind of game this is, he Starts playing with zero knowledge about anything and then skips the tutorial and plays with bots. The biggest problem here is that guys attitude.

    It wasn't so much about the guy in the video, but the gameplay with bots. It's sort of a mess for someone new. I started with zero knowledge by playing marine because it's easily understood for the most part. I played on regular servers that all skill levels played on. I believe new folks are forced to either start with tutorials, bots, or rookie only servers. Instead, I propose we let a brand new players enter any server they wish to. This is the way it used to be. But, if they want tutorials and bots, then fine.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,109 admin
    Webtrance wrote: »
    Instead, I propose we let a brand new players enter any server they wish to. This is the way it used to be. But, if they want tutorials and bots, then fine.

    That's how it is currently. Any new player can play on any server.
    Using playnow will steer them more towards Rookie Only if it can.

    Any time they launch the game and click on "Play" there's a popup that reminds them to play the tutorial.
    So this person skipped the training button at the menu, skipped the training button at the play menu, and had to manually close the popup telling him to go to training.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    ResistorSilentman
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members Posts: 458 Advanced user
    If average veterans don't want to learn or listen to better players, why would beginners? ... every time I play inevitably some 1200-1700 hive player tells me I'm wrong. I point out the only obvious indicator "my hive is 3 times yours". From which they always respond "hive doesn't matter"....

    How does a win/loss ELO not matter? I understand that hive is not perfect, but how does a person justify the following two statements.

    " stack!! It's 1500v1800 hive everyone shuffle"
    And
    "Hive doesn't matter" (I'm not going to listen to you even thou you have 3x my hive"

    I love being told "we lost because I didn't go where I was told" when that same player said the previous round that "they lost because I joined the other team and stacked the game midway..." somehow I can totally unbalance a game and have no idea what I'm doing.





  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 752 Advanced user
    Well I have seen cases where people decided that ns2 will be their first FPS they have ever played.
    yeah... forget about the admin thing
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 445 Advanced user
    Wob wrote: »
    [

    Oh sweet summer child, don't you know? It's never their own fault.

    Back on topic: I just can't empathise with this player in the twitch link at all. He has no intuition to do ANYTHING.

    His movement is not efficient, and I don't mean he's not strafe jumping in combat, I mean the way he walks down a corridor is literally like how a toddler walks in real life. He has an idea of which room he'd like to go towards (sometimes) and but sort of aimlessly stumbles down it like he needs to take his afternoon nap.

    He sees a blue print and builds it, then sees the power node blue print and doesn't?????????????? Then later he says he understands that you have to build the blueprints.

    His crosshair placement is careless like he just doesn't expect anything to come out of any corridor/door/vent and he certainly doesn't expect bad people to come in the direction they've been coming in before.

    He even chases a fade out of control to topo who is out of energy and he has a jetpack, and decides to start shooting a cyst instead of finishing his mate, the fade, off. [20 mins into the stream more or less]

    He shoots every cyst he sees despite not actually seeing any direct impact on the game by doing that. He shoots cysts when his teammates are being engaged by things that can kill him. You'd think you'd rather shoot and kill something that can kill you instead of a little orange glowball.

    He has no inclination to open his map or even ask how to open it. He plays like he thinks it's a single player game and if you just follow the path you'll get somewhere, which I suppose is true in NS2, but there doesn't seem to be a thought process of "Where am I, Where do I need to go, How can I get there". He's just aimlessly walking around not doing anything.

    "I have to press G to pick up my f*cking weapon" - like hello? Is that a big deal? Have you never played something like counterstrike?

    It would be interesting to see how this guy plays literally any other online FPS because he lacks any of the fundamentals required.

    How on earth do you help people like this?

    Exactly. You can't hope to get these people into a game like NS2. Let them play the CoDs of the world. If this person plays for 3k hours (unlikely) they'll still be that person running into 5 marines as a lone skulk, dying instantly, instead of bypassing them and biting RTs.

    There is a distinction between being bad and being stupid. You can be good, mechanically, but make very idiotic decisions. We were all bad when we started out (assuming you didn't come from NS1), but not all of us were mindless.
  • G_LockG_Lock Playtester_ FL Join Date: 2013-04-03 Member: 184624Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 74 Fully active user
    Seeing that guy play with bots as his first game was really hard to watch, i'm not sure who's idea bots were originally but the experience and flow of a bot game is NOTHING like an actual game against real people. It's terrible that new players who don't have a clue about whats going on, are put into a game with bots that cant jump over and get stuck on a railing or get stuck in loops. Its an absolute awful first impression for a game that has incredible gameplay under the right conditions. Should really consider removing bots from the game until they can be reworked to not be completely embarrassing to watch, their only doing more harm then good at this point.
    Vetinaricoolitic.trixX.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,194 Advanced user
    G_Lock wrote: »
    Seeing that guy play with bots as his first game was really hard to watch, i'm not sure who's idea bots were originally but the experience and flow of a bot game is NOTHING like an actual game against real people. It's terrible that new players who don't have a clue about whats going on, are put into a game with bots that cant jump over and get stuck on a railing or get stuck in loops. Its an absolute awful first impression for a game that has incredible gameplay under the right conditions. Should really consider removing bots from the game until they can be reworked to not be completely embarrassing to watch, their only doing more harm then good at this point.

    As far as I can tell he's playing with a more experienced guy and I assume it was his idea. Terrible idea, honestly. They were talking; if they had gone to a populated server where people are known to have mics and talked via ingame, they could have had a blast.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
    G_Lockcoolitic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,312 Advanced user
    edited July 7
    Vetinari wrote: »
    G_Lock wrote: »
    Seeing that guy play with bots as his first game was really hard to watch, i'm not sure who's idea bots were originally but the experience and flow of a bot game is NOTHING like an actual game against real people. It's terrible that new players who don't have a clue about whats going on, are put into a game with bots that cant jump over and get stuck on a railing or get stuck in loops. Its an absolute awful first impression for a game that has incredible gameplay under the right conditions. Should really consider removing bots from the game until they can be reworked to not be completely embarrassing to watch, their only doing more harm then good at this point.

    As far as I can tell he's playing with a more experienced guy and I assume it was his idea. Terrible idea, honestly. They were talking; if they had gone to a populated server where people are known to have mics and talked via ingame, they could have had a blast.

    His friend was as experienced in that he had tried the tutorial once. The player in the video will ask a question, and his friend will give him an incorrect answer. When the guy asks for a more detailed answer, his friend says "I don't know." At some point his friend even told him the tutorial explains this stuff, but the guy said, "tutorials are for babies." Then his friend called him a baby.

    I would not be surprised if his friend had only played the game one or two times on top of playing the tutorial. His fade play was better than a walker fade, so who knows.

    The player did not use Quick Play or go to the server browser. He must have joined off of his somewhat more experienced friend. The server had bots for a simple reason. Playing with bots is better than playing with 3 people total. Bots aren't ideal, but it is better than an empty server.

    At about 36 minutes in, yes I watched it all, they joined a new rookie only server with real people. He joined aliens, which he had not tried yet. The alien team was down 3 players down with exo's in their hive. They joined near the end of a game while being spawn camped.

    After that they played a real game with people, from the beginning. This game also ended in them being spawn camped. He rated this game 1/5 stars for the reason "Round was not fun."

    Please do not awesome anymore of my posts. I have 888 awesomes, and I would like to keep it that way.

    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
    coolitic
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,194 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    The player did not use Quick Play or go to the server browser. He must have joined off of his somewhat more experienced friend.

    Yeah, I noticed that too. That's where my assumption came from.
    Nordic wrote: »
    Vetinari wrote: »
    G_Lock wrote: »
    Seeing that guy play with bots as his first game was really hard to watch, i'm not sure who's idea bots were originally but the experience and flow of a bot game is NOTHING like an actual game against real people. It's terrible that new players who don't have a clue about whats going on, are put into a game with bots that cant jump over and get stuck on a railing or get stuck in loops. Its an absolute awful first impression for a game that has incredible gameplay under the right conditions. Should really consider removing bots from the game until they can be reworked to not be completely embarrassing to watch, their only doing more harm then good at this point.

    As far as I can tell he's playing with a more experienced guy and I assume it was his idea. Terrible idea, honestly. They were talking; if they had gone to a populated server where people are known to have mics and talked via ingame, they could have had a blast.

    His friend was as experienced in that he had tried the tutorial once. The player in the video will ask a question, and his friend will give him an incorrect answer. When the guy asks for a more detailed answer, his friend says "I don't know." At some point his friend even told him the tutorial explains this stuff, but the guy said, "tutorials are for babies." Then his friend called him a baby.

    I rest my case. These people are simply in the completely wrong mindset for NS2. It would have never worked out.

    Honestly, I don't understand people like that. I assume these are the same people that skip all the cutscenes in story based games. Why do these people even try out new things? What's the point if all you want to do is point and shoot?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
    coolitic
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members Posts: 343 Advanced user
    I think that in Dota2 and Chivalry the tutorials weren't optional...
  • _INTER__INTER_ Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 818 Advanced user
    edited July 8
    Vetinari wrote: »

    I rest my case. These people are simply in the completely wrong mindset for NS2. It would have never worked out.

    Honestly, I don't understand people like that. I assume these are the same people that skip all the cutscenes in story based games. Why do these people even try out new things? What's the point if all you want to do is point and shoot?

    Most of the new player generation is like that though. They grew up with other types and an abundance of games. Also really noone wants to play a tutorial, that's why often new games integrate it into normal gameplay or are self-explainingly simple.
    The dev team would do good to study the NS2 demographics before implementing features. So either they give up on the current remaining userbase and appeal to a new generation of players (hint: too late) or stop dumbing down the game any further and go for real retention of whats left.

    Warforce17 wrote: »
    RapGod wrote: »
    matso wrote: »
    --> pistol time axe time welder time riflebutt time
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,194 Advanced user
    _INTER_ wrote: »
    Vetinari wrote: »

    I rest my case. These people are simply in the completely wrong mindset for NS2. It would have never worked out.

    Honestly, I don't understand people like that. I assume these are the same people that skip all the cutscenes in story based games. Why do these people even try out new things? What's the point if all you want to do is point and shoot?

    Most of the new player generation is like that though. They grew up with other types and an abundance of games. Also really noone wants to play a tutorial, that's why often new games integrate it into normal gameplay or are self-explainingly simple.
    The dev team would do good to study the NS2 demographics before implementing features. So either they give up on the current remaining userbase and appeal to a new generation of players (hint: too late) or stop dumbing down the game any further and go for real retention of whats left.

    I'm sure there's still enough people willing to put more effort into their games out there. The problem is: How do you find them?
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,312 Advanced user
    I am going to share some player statistics and see how they add to the discussion.

    There are about 10,000 to 16,000 unique players in NS2 every month. 40-65% of players are new players to the game, with a higher proportion of new players after a sale. That leaves about 6,000 regular non-rookie NS2 players every month. This is how NS2's player demographics looked throughout the last year. NS2 has many new players trying the game, most of which leave the game. The 6,000 non-rookies seem to stick around for a long time.

    Since January 2015, NS2 has had roughly the same peak concurrent players counts daily of about 400. The active player base has remained roughly the same size since January 2015. It is like there is a real world asymptote. The player base has remained fairly stable in size for years now. The rate of decline is extremely slow, compared to the exponential decline of a game like Evolved.

    I do not know the proportion of rookies to non-rookies in 2015. Maybe the proportion of rookies has increased. I do not know. Either way, we are seeing a turnover of the veterans. Many of the veterans we know or remember have left, but they have been replaced. If they had not been replaced we would have a greater decline.

    The non-rookie turnover rate may even be quicker today than it was then. I have no evidence to support or deny this. My point is that there is turnover. I have heard players say the quality or skill of the player base has declined. I have nothing to support or deny this. It sounds similar to a no true scotsman fallacy, but I could also see some truth in it.
    Please do not awesome anymore of my posts. I have 888 awesomes, and I would like to keep it that way.

    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
    cooliticSquishpokePOOPFACE
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 752 Advanced user
    @Vetinari the real question is how do you make them find you?

    @Nordic any idea why out of those 10-16k people only like 400-500 play at the same time? It feels like the game has a nice playerbase but is not played very reglary (including myself here)
    If the game would represent that playerbase even by having like 2000 or 3000 playing at the same time other people who would see this on the steamcharts might pick up the game again.
    yeah... forget about the admin thing
    Vetinaricoolitic
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members Posts: 343 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    any idea why out of those 10-16k people only like 400-500 play at the same time?

    Because you can eat only when commanding aliens.
    antoucoolitic
  • BlrgBlrg Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187580Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    @Nordic any idea why out of those 10-16k people only like 400-500 play at the same time? It feels like the game has a nice playerbase but is not played very reglary (including myself here)
    We discussed this a couple years ago.
    Those 400-500 players happens only at peak times. The average is 240 concurrent players
    The 16k players seems a high number because we all play at different hours and different days.
    The average playtime is only 3 hours per week

    Total ns2 players = 240 average players * 7days*24h/ 3 average hours = 13k players

    Mephilles wrote: »
    If the game would represent that playerbase even by having like 2000 or 3000 playing at the same time other people who would see this on the steamcharts might pick up the game again.

    To have 2000 concurrent players with our current total of 10-16k total players you would need one (or more) of the following insane and unrealistic scenarios:
    • Convince most of the community to play at fixed schedules. (Something that worked for some time for Combat standalone when they decided to play only on Saturdays, because it was the only way for them to play)
    • Make this hateful thing that most games do: "forcing" you to play everyday to complete daily missions. By doing that they try to increase what would naturally be your playtime and forcing you to adapt the routine of playing their game everyday
    • Convince somehow the community to play an average of 24 hours a week to achieve 2000 average players
    VetinariMephilles.trixX.coolitic
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 752 Advanced user
    though isn't 3 hour per week a little bit weak if I compare it to other games. Well I guess it is partly because you don't rly feel like you are progressing somewhere. Like a ranking system but I am pretty sure that is somewhere on the roadmap already.
    yeah... forget about the admin thing
    The_Welsh_Wizard
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 424 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    though isn't 3 hour per week a little bit weak if I compare it to other games. Well I guess it is partly because you don't rly feel like you are progressing somewhere. Like a ranking system but I am pretty sure that is somewhere on the roadmap already.

    3 hours is only weak when viewing from a competitive mindset.

    Most people play games for fun, casually. There are many games that I play that I only put an hour or two into per week... its how I can play so many games. NS2 and Paragon are the only 2 games that break that rule, I play them much more often.
    But no, 3 hours is about right, some people will play daily for 4+ hours a day, others will pick up a game once in a while and play for an hour or so... Some people have lives outside of NS2 Meph :P
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    VetinariHandschuh
  • BlrgBlrg Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187580Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 117 Advanced user
    I was curious, so I compared these numbers with the average number of hours per week that other more popular games get (Dota2, CSGO, Team Fortress 2 and Paladins)
    Why did I chose those games? No reason. They're just the ones I know

    g06up3v9n2xi.jpg

    ez959k953kr2.jpg

    Vetinaricoolitic
  • antouantou France Join Date: 2016-07-24 Member: 220615Members Posts: 36 Fully active user
    @Blrg Interesting numbers.
    I was about about to say that playing NS2 is only worth it if you can play ~2 hours in a row.
    I feel like playing NS2 pretty much every evening but I know it's not always worth it: if I'm unlucky, I'll have wait a long time before playing (finding the right server, waiting for the current round to end, then picking comms... then "oh we need to shuffle again"). Plus rounds can be pretty long, and if I lose a round, I just have to keep playing until I win at least one, right ? ;)

    TF2 and CSGO don't require the same commitment (you can just play for 30 minutes and move to something else). I don't know how long DOTA rounds are though.

    VetinariBestProfileName
  • develdevel Join Date: 2014-09-13 Member: 198444Members Posts: 343 Advanced user
    edited July 11
    antou wrote: »
    I don't know how long DOTA rounds are though.

    Around 45 minutes (may be 20, may be hour and a half).

    Also, I think that it's a bit unfair to compare hours/week of NS2 to DOTA2 because Valve applies some pretty aggressive strategies to boost the playtime. For example, the wagers of the "Battle Pass": you're getting a fixed amount of tokens every week that you've got to spend by playing matches during that week. (rewards are cosmetics)
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,312 Advanced user
    Blrg wrote: »
    The 16k players seems a high number...

    The data I have shows monthly unique players as low as 12,000 and as high as 16,000 after a halloween sale. Ghoul once said somewhere around 10,000, so I used that as my low number. I provided a range. About 13,000 average monthly unique players is within this range.

    Monthly unique players is a useful number in that it shows a reasonable estimate of the total size of the community. Concurrent players is the important one. NS2 needs more people playing at one time.
    Blrg wrote: »
    3 average hours
    Between five and three years ago I would come home and play NS2 2-6 hours almost every night. Now I play about 3 hours a week. That is spot on for me.
    Please do not awesome anymore of my posts. I have 888 awesomes, and I would like to keep it that way.

    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
    Vetinari
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