(NS2 STATS) First hive choice preferences - Discuss

NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,387 Advanced user
edited February 16 in NS2 General Discussion
I have posted these graphs before on the forums and on discord. Now I am posting it here for us to discuss. I am bored. Entertain me.

On the graphs, please note the scale of the Y axis.
j6HhqEY.png
guZyos4.png

Seriously, lets have a discussion.
When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
.trixX.
«1

Comments

  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,338 Advanced user
    Sure, I shall bite.
    They boosted basic skulk movement to make shift hive less needed, and than people start playing shift hive more? lol
    Meanwhile crag seems on a decline while its quite strong IF used well.. interesting.
    .trixX.coolitic
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,741 admin
    Sure, I shall bite.
    They boosted basic skulk movement to make shift hive less needed, and than people start playing shift hive more? lol
    Meanwhile crag seems on a decline while its quite strong IF used well.. interesting.

    That's a big 'If'.
    coolitic
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 616 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Sure, I shall bite.
    They boosted basic skulk movement to make shift hive less needed, and than people start playing shift hive more? lol
    Meanwhile crag seems on a decline while its quite strong IF used well.. interesting.

    That's a big 'If'.

    Well, crag hive is the easiest to play. You just have more health.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,387 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Sure, I shall bite.
    They boosted basic skulk movement to make shift hive less needed, and than people start playing shift hive more? lol
    Meanwhile crag seems on a decline while its quite strong IF used well.. interesting.

    That's a big 'If'.

    Well, crag hive is the easiest to play. You just have more health.

    Logically that makes sense but I am not sure that is accurate in practice. I see a lot of players around the skill spectrum, but especially low skill players, who claim celerity is almost necessary to be an effective skulk. Even before silence was put on shift hive, shift hive was chosen 70% of games. I think pub dependence on celerity is a major factor in shift hive being so

    Personally I think celerity is fairly strong but not at all necessary. I think @fordprefect has said celerity is almost necessary for him.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 801 Advanced user
    Well if it is to balancethe hives between each other than silence on shade hive makes sense. This would make shade hive stronger as first hive again. Also I think silence + aura as a combination is stronger than celerity + silence.
    return to zero
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,525 Advanced user
    OP and PO combined makes ... (drumroll)
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    2coughStark
  • antouantou France Join Date: 2016-07-24 Member: 220615Members Posts: 60 Advanced user
    Because Shift hive is chosen most of the time, some players (me included) feel like they can't move properly (as a skulk during early game) whenever Shade or Crag is chosen instead. I think that's why people complain when the commander chooses another hive type. It's pretty much a vicious circle because following that logic, Shift will keep being the "default" hive.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 507 Advanced user
    Pretty much what 2cough said. Who cares if you move faster while sneaking when you can charge at full speed and with an increased base skulk speed.

    They boosted skulk movement to make shift hive less needed, sure. They also boosted shift hive into being excessively strong. Or OP as he put it.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    Contrary to what I used believe, I'd say that shift hive as third hive is a perfectly viable at the moment. I had exaggerated the reliance on celerity as fade, mainly because I was just used to the celerity speed and playing without it felt wrong. I'm always happy to see commanders omitting shift hive and going crag + shade hive, so that I can get a combination of regen/cara + focus/aura.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,300 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Sure, I shall bite.
    They boosted basic skulk movement to make shift hive less needed, and than people start playing shift hive more? lol
    Meanwhile crag seems on a decline while its quite strong IF used well.. interesting.

    That's a big 'If'.

    Well, crag hive is the easiest to play. You just have more health.

    Logically that makes sense but I am not sure that is accurate in practice. I see a lot of players around the skill spectrum, but especially low skill players, who claim celerity is almost necessary to be an effective skulk. Even before silence was put on shift hive, shift hive was chosen 70% of games. I think pub dependence on celerity is a major factor in shift hive being so

    Personally I think celerity is fairly strong but not at all necessary. I think @fordprefect has said celerity is almost necessary for him.

    You're lucky I'm actually visiting today, because you misspelled my name :P

    Well, I wouldn't put it like that; that might have been the case a few hundred hours of play time before, but I think by now I'm good enough to deal with not having celerity.
    However, back when silence wasn't on shift, it was rarely necessary; Shift was almost always first hive. If not, second, after crag. Not going shift was just not worth it, since Celerity is such a great upgrade for all lifeforms and you also lose adrenaline for gorges. We can discuss the actual usefulness of additional speed vs. more health all day, but I think most people (mostly non-competitve ones) would agree with me if I say that celerity just feels so much better. Alien movement is a lot about going fast and speed upgrades just go well with that.

    And, of course, after silence was moved to shift, going shift first became a total no brainer. (At least in pub, which I almost exclusively play(ed).) Celerity skulk is dead, long live silence skulk. It's very fun to stalk unsuspecting less skilled players Alien style with a silence skulk, but this is more than offset by how little fun it is to fight against. (Both for them and yourself.)
    I spent a thousand hours training my ears to exactly locate skulks moving around me, and if the enemy went shade first, that would be a real gamechanger: Aliens are more squishy, but also less predictable. (Yes, normally skulks can sneak, but lots don't in pub and it does slow them down quite a bit.)
    After the change, your ears became unreliable. Of course you can deal with that by amping up your paranoia, but it's frankly just annoying.

    To answer your question, I'd say shift always felt best to the average player, and when it got silence it became objectively better than the alternatives in pub. And that's why everyone plays with it all the time now.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    Check out my new Balance Mod
    .trixX.twiliteblue
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,662 Advanced user
    Honestly, the only reason all those "third" abilities were added was to "balance out" the fact that they wanted adren, celery, and silence on the same hive. Those new abilities seem really half-assed to me and don't fit the game.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,387 Advanced user
    I don't know if anyone remembers this, but we had a 6 page discussion starting October 2014 about shift hive dominance. I made this thread mostly to see where it would go. I am seeing a lot of repeated thoughts from that 2014 thread.


    I am also seeing a lack of understanding about why silence was placed on shift hive. The developers decided that the combination of celerity and silence was too strong, so they moved silence. As I understand it, the addition of the new upgrades was to increase player choice.

    Personally, I am not a fan of silence on shift hive. I did not make the decision, obviously. I do like the addition of new upgrades, but crush and vampirism are underwhelming. Both could be great but they clearly are not right now.



    Just spit balling ideas here. I think the following upgrade shuffle might be interesting.
    • Move Silence to Shade Hive
    • Move Vampirism to Crag hive
    • Remove cloaking from Vampirism
    • Increase the heatlh gained from successful attacks
    • Remove Regenerations healing in combat
    • Increase the healing effect of Regeneration outside of combat
    • Move Crush to Shift hive
    • Increase the speed at which lifeforms can kill structures
    • Shift Hive: Celerity, Adrenaline, and Crush
    • Crag Hive: Carapace, Regeneration, and Vampirism.
    • Shade Hive: Aura, Focus, and Silence.

    Three traits would be altered would be useful because:
    • Vampirism would reward players who can successfully land melee attacks
    • Regeneration would reward players for being able to win or successfully leave an engagement
    • Crush would allow players to kill structures even faster than it does now.

    The three hives would now have the following traits:
    • Shift Hive: Celerity, Adrenaline, and Crush
    • Crag Hive: Carapace, Regeneration, and Vampirism.
    • Shade Hive: Aura, Focus, and Silence.

    I think the above hive combinations would be less OP than what we have now and also provide better tradeoffs between traits.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
    coolitictwiliteblueVetinari
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,662 Advanced user
    edited February 17
    You can't have vampirism in the game without either a) it being useless or b) it encouraging bad playstyles (as far as the lifesteal is concerned). Crush either ends up being too powerful or something not worth choosing due to it's lack of versatility. Focus is just a straight buff in the majority of scenarios and doesn't really affect how you play the game (well, it shouldn't be, consciously trying to escape/timing hits for the sake of damage will probably hurt more than help)

    I doubt balancing is capable of fixing any of these abilities.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,525 Advanced user
    Make Shade Hive Silent Again
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    Nordic
  • NexZone30NexZone30 Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185719Members Posts: 21 Fully active user
    Hives give three different things: upgrades, structure abilities, and drifter abilities. This means it is important to understand all three to understand why each hive is ranked the way it is. The choice of which hive goes first is ultimately dependent on these three variables.

    Shift:
    -UPs: Silence/Celerity/Adrenaline
    -SA: Echo
    -DA: Enzyme

    Shade:
    -UPs: Vampirism/Focus/Aura
    -SA: Ink
    -DA: Hallucinations

    Crag:
    -UPs: Carapace/Regen/Crush
    -SA: Heal Wave
    -DA: Mucous Membrane

    Now, let's break it down.
    SHIFT: (Personal Starting Hive Rank: #1)
    Shift is great all around. All of its abilities are arguably usable and cover different roles. Silence is great for ambushing, adrenaline is great for high energy cost lifeforms, and Celerity is great for an overall speed boost. No one could argue that Echo is beyond probably one of the most useful all-around commander structure abilities as moving structures around the map nearly instantly is game changing. Finally, enzyme has its perks. It can be used to speed up hive building or to increasing the likelihood of a good rush.

    -UPs (9/10)
    -SA (10/10) (I'd give it 100/10 if I could...)
    -DA (7/10)

    SHADE: (Personal Starting Hive Rank: #2)
    Shade is nearly as good as the shift hive. Two of its upgrades are insanely useful. Focus allows for early and late game slaughter. Arua is great for strategic play and res-biting. Vampirism is lackluster, but the other two abilities make up for it. Ink is very necessary for some maps as arcs can be a serious threat such as Tram. It's niche, but it's a very useful niche. Hallucinations are an amazing ability as well. It is an effective damage mitigation tool and a decent distraction.

    -UPs (7/10)
    -SA (7/10)
    -DA (9/10)

    CRAG: (Personal Starting Hive Rank: #3)
    Crag is great in some areas and super lackluster in others. As far as upgrades I feel crag is superb. Regen, carapace, and crush all have their place and their own usable niche. However, the issue of crag lies in its commander oriented abilities. In simplest terms, they absolutely pale in comparison to the abilities of Shift and Shade. In fact, shade's DA effectively does what the crag's DA does, just better as it doubles as a distraction. The crag's structure ability is also quite trash, as most of the time there will not be more than three structures/lifeforms in a room requiring healing. If there is more than three, chances are there is a gorge there, effectively mitigating the point of the heal wave.

    -UPs (9/10)
    -SA (3/10)
    -DA (3/10)

    To me, the shift hive is the most utilized due to it being the best overall hive to start off as. Echo has so much utility and enzyme is quite useful if utilized correctly. On top of that, celerity and silence are amazing to have access to at the same time as they fill exactly opposite niches. This is also why crag is seen as the worst. The upgrades are good, but the commander abilities are garbage in comparison to what the shift and shade can accomplish. Now, before anyone argues that we must nerf the hell out of Shift, that's not the solution. The solution is to make the shade and crag more appealing as starting hives. So, how could we do that?

    Here is an example for fixing the crag heal wave ability:
    The crag's SA could be changed to give a brief boost in structure HP or an effective structure shield. This would give it some utility as a harassment nullifier. A form this could take on is boosting the structure maturity to max (if it isn't already) and boosting it to 110% on top of allowing the crag to heal as many targets as possible (though a slight healing penalty might be warranted). This would be practical and useful to commanders.

    Now, I haven't covered everything in this list. I'm aware that strategies exist with each hive. I was talking generally or this would be pages.
  • WobWob Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 477 Advanced user
    @nexzone30, I like the way you think before your solution. Unfortunately I think that by focusing on the starting hive you miss a very important phase of the game where aliens have 2 hives.

    The synergy of silence and aura is too OP. Ink is also the second best hive ability because games typical stalemate around the fight for the 3rd hive and/or defending the 2nd hive where ARC plays are strongest.

    I disagree with people that say celerity and silence are OP, I think it's just suitably strong just like how regen and silence are suitably strong. I liked @nordic ideas. I think crag and shade hives do need a bit of buffing on top and again I agree with @nordic over your solution
    meatmachineNordiccoolitic
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,300 Advanced user
    I second that Nordic's proposal sounds good; it makes sense both balance wise and theme wise. (I remember how the hives are supposed to be themed before it all got muddled up?)
    Coolitic raises some good points, but it would still be better than what we have now.

    @NexZone30 raises another good point, which are the hives' secondary effects. Echo is just too damn useful (especially early game) compared to everything else.
    Nordic wrote: »
    As I understand it, the addition of the new upgrades was to increase player choice.

    Ironically, it had the opposite effect. You were supposed to bring balance to the force, not destroy it...
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    Check out my new Balance Mod
    coolitic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,387 Advanced user
    I disagree about enzyme being stronger that mucous membrane. Either can make or break an engagement. Doing mucous on an onos push makes marines waste most of their first clip, and is helpful on all lifeforms. If your push failed despite having mucous, you can save your lifeforms as they leave the room.

    I would even go as far to say that all drifter abilities are equally overpowered. Drifters are weak and difficult to use, so we don't see the drifter abilities often.

    I agree that echo has significantly more utility. I don't think this is all that important. Public players will not complain that you chose crag or shade hive because now you can't echo. They complain because they don't have their personal upgrades. I have even seen some players verbally assault the commander for not choosing shift hive.
    coolitic wrote: »
    You can't have vampirism in the game without either a) it being useless or b) it encouraging bad playstyles (as far as the lifesteal is concerned). Crush either ends up being too powerful or something not worth choosing due to it's lack of versatility. Focus is just a straight buff in the majority of scenarios and doesn't really affect how you play the game (well, it shouldn't be, consciously trying to escape/timing hits for the sake of damage will probably hurt more than help)

    I doubt balancing is capable of fixing any of these abilities.

    I disagree that they cannot be balanced. There is a fine line where it would be good. The purpose of this change I mentioned is a way to put silence back on shade hive. It keeps upgrades to the themes of the hive. Crush is an extraordinarily confusing upgrade. It clearly needs a revamp. The lifesteal portion of Vampirism isnt all that bad. A slight buff could make it a worthwhile but not OP upgrade.

    It seems no one made the connection. This idea I proposed is in ghouls balance mod. Test it out. He has not changed crush or Vampirism although he moved their hive.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,300 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    I agree that echo has significantly more utility. I don't think this is all that important. Public players will not complain that you chose crag or shade hive because now you can't echo. They complain because they don't have their personal upgrades. I have even seen some players verbally assault the commander for not choosing shift hive.

    While you are right about this, the commander is the one who actually has to decide which hive to evolve, and echo is definitely going to influence that decision, regardless of what his team thinks.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    Check out my new Balance Mod
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 616 Advanced user
    Hmm looks like I am the only one who uses vampirism on my lerk? When moved to crag hive, it becomes completely useless to me.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,338 Advanced user
    Im a bit amazed some people speak of crush as not versatile enough.
    Its mainly a skulk or late lerk upgrade to destroy structures. pres is not a issue for free skulk upgrade swaps.
    At a cost of 3 res, its not a huge concern for lerk in mid to lategame either.
    Ive even used it on onos, although I often hear the onos should just go with the added armour of carapace.

    Its main issue, as always, it that pubs just dont use upgrades as they should.
    I see not why it would make shift weaker if we move crush to shift.
  • SteelcapSteelcap Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75049Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 26 Advanced user
    I have an excellent way to make crush useful.

    Reverse it's effects on armor percentage.
    Currently when you attack 70% goes to armor and 30% to hp.
    Each level of crush increases the armor percentage by 7%. Rank 3 crush means you deliver 91% of your damage to armor and 9% to HP.

    Reverse that and it becomes 49% armor and 51% hp.

    a 75 damage bite deals
    34.125 armor and 6.75 hp with old crush
    18.375 armor and 38.25 hp with new crush
    26.25 armor and 22.5 hp with no crush

    In practical terms this would mean a skulk could always kill a marine in 3 bites regardless of armor.
    This may sound overpowered to you but consider currently that marines rush armor 2 in basically all games. This provides a potential tech path for aliens to counter that build and force more dynamism into both teams build orders, while there is no tension on marines choice of armor 2 there is never a reason not to rush it first.
    The_Welsh_WizardNordictwiliteblue
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,662 Advanced user
    edited February 18
    Nordic wrote: »
    I disagree that they cannot be balanced. There is a fine line where it would be good.

    Unless that "fine line" is where there is a small amount of both cons. Not everything can be fixed by adjusting numbers, sometimes the idea itself is just bad.

    Also, what's the justification for having lifesteal with camo? If you are going to add something together with camo, at least make it something stealth/deception oriented.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,387 Advanced user
    edited February 18
    Crush effectively makes aliens do 7% extra damage per shell at targets that are affected by structural damage or are an exo. Not all structures are affected by structural damage. Ranged attacks like bilebomb or lerk spikes are unaffected by crush. Crush is primarily used in killing RT's, exo's, and arcs.

    Crush is confusing because it is inconsistent. Crush has high utility in certain situations, but is not as widely applicable.

    Getting crush on an onos would help you kill certain structures, exo's, and arcs faster. It would not help you in combat.
    coolitic wrote: »
    Not everything can be fixed by adjusting numbers, sometimes the idea itself is just bad.
    That is totally true. I don't think crush or lifesteal is a bad idea at all. I think it was just poorly implemented.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 616 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Ranged attacks like bilebomb or lerk spikes are unaffected by crush.
    This is not true or was there an update that changed that?
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,387 Advanced user
    edited February 18
    It was always true.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • NexZone30NexZone30 Join Date: 2013-06-27 Member: 185719Members Posts: 21 Fully active user
    @Nordic, crush works with Bilebomb... Unless I am crazy... *Sees bigger number with crush bile bomb* Yeah... I don't think I'm crazy.
  • KeatsKeats United States Join Date: 2014-11-04 Member: 199413Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 145 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Ranged attacks like bilebomb or lerk spikes are unaffected by crush.
    This is not true or was there an update that changed that?

    This is certainly not true now. I remember it being false in the past as well. There may or may not have been certain times when it was true.
    Crush affects spikes and bilebomb.
    PM sent.
    The_Welsh_Wizard
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.