(NS2 STATS) Average Tech Timings - Discuss

NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,233 Auto Verified
edited February 17 in NS2 General Discussion
In the spoiler below I have included a large table that shows average tech timings. Averages are a statistic that are sometimes as misleading as it is useful. This table will not tell you what the most common build order is. It does not tell you the frequency of the tech. It most certainly does not tell you the optimal tech path. It only tells you the average time something was completed. For the more technical oriented, the early and late timings are the first and third quartile timings. The data comes from NS2+. You may notice some odd things in the table. According to the data, prototype labs are built on average before the advanced armory is researched.I could speculate why this is but I do not want to. Despite the imperfection of this table, I decided this was interesting enough to share. Or maybe I am just bored and want to see how these forums respond to this data.

Discuss.
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When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
Post edited by Nordic on
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Comments

  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members Posts: 2,767 Auto Verified
    Nordic wrote: »
    . According to the data, prototype labs are built on average before the advanced armory is researched.I could speculate why this is but I do not want to.
    I know you said you don't want to speculate, but I think one pretty reasonable explanation is that you get to build the prototype lab only if you're doing well. The advanced armory timing is dragged down by a big quantity of slower tech games that never end up getting to the proto lab phase. Meanwhile prototype lab appears in smaller quantity of games where the marines are almost always doing well and teching fast.

    Dota 2 has a lot of similar situations where some seemingly illogical items on some heroes have very high statistical winrates. This is because certain items only end up getting picked up if the game is already going very favourably in the first place and you want to snowball further ahead or finish the game in quick manner. That doesn't make them the overall best items on the heroes in most situations, but gives them amazing winrates nevertheless.

    My NS2 is very rusty though, please do correct me if I got something totally bonkers in the thought process there.
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,233 Auto Verified
    I didn't want to speculate, but that shouldn't stop you guys. Discuss it guys. Don't be silent. I need some entertainment. Give me my fix.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
    BestProfileNamecoolitic
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,441 Auto Verified
    What's up with the sentries? Huge gaps between each one. Is there a sentry strat where they are built on floating res of another build order?

    I mean, if I'm gonna build sentries (rare), I'm gonna plop all three at once.
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  • F0rdPrefectF0rdPrefect Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,075 Auto Verified
    Average first extractor at 0:40 seems really high, doesn't it?
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  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,175 Auto Verified
    I find it odd that the Average Harvester (1:18) is so close to Late harvester (1:23), and yet early harvester is only (0:54).

    I suspect this, along with the extractor @F0rdPrefect pointed out is due to different distances to initial res on the maps. Early would indicate a much closer res point on a map, where most are of a greater distance.
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,293 Auto Verified
    Its not odd at all.
    marines run to RT, hopefully one builds are the rest move on.

    All the while on alien, you wait for your cyst chain to grow, your drifter to build your harvester. Also is delayed if no gorge helps it up, or if your comm did not instant drop the drifter.

    Aliens just have a slower start, its nothing to worry about. Its been like this like forever.
    Mouse
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,233 Auto Verified
    Average first extractor at 0:40 seems really high, doesn't it?

    To be clear, it is the first one built outside base. I think everyone understood that, but clarity is good.
    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 402 Auto Verified
    edited February 18


    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    I find it odd that the Average Harvester (1:18) is so close to Late harvester (1:23), and yet early harvester is only (0:54).

    I suspect this, along with the extractor @F0rdPrefect pointed out is due to different distances to initial res on the maps. Early would indicate a much closer res point on a map, where most are of a greater distance.



    It appears odd at first, but we could borrow Bacillus' point below and extrapolate it to harvesters:
    Bacillus wrote: »
    I know you said you don't want to speculate, but I think one pretty reasonable explanation is that you get to build the prototype lab only if you're doing well. The advanced armory timing is dragged down by a big quantity of slower tech games that never end up getting to the proto lab phase. Meanwhile prototype lab appears in smaller quantity of games where the marines are almost always doing well and teching fast.

    Dota 2 has a lot of similar situations where some seemingly illogical items on some heroes have very high statistical winrates. This is because certain items only end up getting picked up if the game is already going very favourably in the first place and you want to snowball further ahead or finish the game in quick manner. That doesn't make them the overall best items on the heroes in most situations, but gives them amazing winrates nevertheless.

    My NS2 is very rusty though, please do correct me if I got something totally bonkers in the thought process there.


    Assuming late harvesters means harvesters beyond a high number, n (for .e.g above 4)
    Could be totally wrong though >.<
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,233 Auto Verified
    Assuming late harvesters means...
    The late values are all the third quarterly of time. I included it as late on the table to improve readability.

    I could have including timings up to 40+ RT's, but that would be too much information. I only included the first and second built extractors and harvesters outside of base.

    When you aim for perfect balance, you discover it's a moving target.
    Perfect balance is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellent gameplay.
    NS2 is a moving, breathing thing. We have to be willing to constantly evolve. Perfect balance is constant transformation.
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