Merge Web with Hydra

twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,990 Advanced user
Web has been an underperforming tool in the alien arsenal. It also bloats the Gorge build menu. Since Hydras function as the traps and early warning systems on Kharaa, perhaps web's function could be merged into Hydra.

I propose that Hydra attacks apply a slowing effect at close range to marines, just like webs currently do. For balance reasons, marines' ability to jump and jetpack will not be completely disabled, but reduced (~30%). They could also parasite marines for a short duration.

What do you think about this solution?

Comments

  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,825 admin
    There was a solution I heard a while back that I really quite liked. (And apologies to whoever suggested it, I don't recall who you are! Not trying to steal your idea. :( )

    It'd be a simple tweak: make webs no longer destroy themselves when marines touch them. Make marines have to weld them or flamethrower them away. That, or at least make them good for more than one "snag"... maybe 10 or so... idk. Then of course adjust the res cost accordingly, if needed. Maybe also make them show up on the map so you can check if one has been destroyed, assuming it hadn't snagged (and therefore, parasited) any marines.

    Personally, I don't think hydras need much of a buff -- they shouldn't be able to hold ground on their own, but like with all PvE in ns2, should aid in team fights.
    coolitic
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,082 Advanced user
    hydras are freaking strong, don't buff em please!
    BestProfileNameantou
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,990 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    Even with "multi-trip" snare Web, they would remain quite useless, because:
    1. Webs are easily destroyed. Even after a marine trips on one, it is very unlikely any other marine (or the same marine lol) will trip on it again, as welders are common.
    2. Webs are highly visible. Unless hidden behind clogs or placed in very short strands in dark rooms, webs are easily spotted and avoided. Even well placed webs have minimal impact on the game (see point 1).
    3. Current effect of Web is very underwhelming. They barely slow marines down and the duration is too short to be meaningful in combat. Too much effort is required to place webs for minimal gain. The Parasite effect has low impact (see points 1&2), and any marine stealthy enough to avoid detection are unlikely to be careless enough to trip on Webs.

    Merging Web as a part as Hydras' short range attack would have many benefits:
    *Reduce entity count on map (compared to Webs everywhere), hence improve game performance.
    *Allow Gorge to track enemy more easily, since Hydras already give off minimap alerts, whereas Webs do not.
    *Improve Kharaa's ability to counter Jetpacks. Long Webs are easily spotted and destroyed or avoided; Hydras would slow down JPs more reliably and take more effort to remove. Balance adjustments could easily be made if Hydra Web proves to be too effective. But judging from Hydras' poor accuracy and short ranged nature of Hydra Web, I cannot foresee it to be a problem.
    Post edited by twiliteblue on
    .trixX.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    Perhaps allow hydras to be upgradeable later on? The problem with this is that it is so difficult for marines to comeback, relative to aliens.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,990 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    Perhaps allow hydras to be upgradeable later on? The problem with this is that it is so difficult for marines to comeback, relative to aliens.

    It may very well be. Although Marines are usually strong early game (if the statistics are correct), and only have difficulty staging comeback later in the game, I don't think having Web as an upgrade would have any impact at all...

    Marine comeback is a different problem entirely. I would suggest the designers buff some of the underperforming equipment (Sentry, Mine, Hand Grenades, and perhaps Exo as well).
    .trixX.
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    Perhaps allow hydras to be upgradeable later on? The problem with this is that it is so difficult for marines to comeback, relative to aliens.

    It may very well be. Although Marines are usually strong early game (if the statistics are correct), and only have difficulty staging comeback later in the game, I don't think having Web as an upgrade would have any impact at all...

    Marine comeback is a different problem entirely. I would suggest the designers buff some of the underperforming equipment (Sentry, Mine, Hand Grenades, and perhaps Exo as well).

    Yeah I think hand grenades are very underused. I'd like to see one that obscures alien view; like a smoke grenade but cooler.

    It would also be cool if cat packs could be upgraded lategame into something more useful. Or, you could upgrade 'lighter' armour, so you can move 20% faster (v. lategame).
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,461 Advanced user
    Or just make webs available earlier on. Has that ever been actually tested? I remember there being endless discussions about how webs enter the game so late they're useless.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 614 Advanced user
    Or just make webs available earlier on. Has that ever been actually tested? I remember there being endless discussions about how webs enter the game so late they're useless.

    I haven't gorged in awhile, but aren't they available from the start or something now?
    twiliteblue
  • TinCanTinCan Join Date: 2006-12-11 Member: 59010Members Posts: 365 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    Yea, webs are free but you only get three.

    my 2 cents : I think Webs need a buff. Make the effect last longer and the Marine even slower, make him wish he didn't run through it. Currently its only a minor hassle.
    Post edited by TinCan on
  • SteelcapSteelcap Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75049Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 27 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    There was a solution I heard a while back that I really quite liked. (And apologies to whoever suggested it, I don't recall who you are! Not trying to steal your idea. :( )

    It'd be a simple tweak: make webs no longer destroy themselves when marines touch them. Make marines have to weld them or flamethrower them away. That, or at least make them good for more than one "snag"... maybe 10 or so... idk. Then of course adjust the res cost accordingly, if needed. Maybe also make them show up on the map so you can check if one has been destroyed, assuming it hadn't snagged (and therefore, parasited) any marines.

    Personally, I don't think hydras need much of a buff -- they shouldn't be able to hold ground on their own, but like with all PvE in ns2, should aid in team fights.

    Hey that was my idea :smile: Glad you liked it!
    Or just make webs available earlier on. Has that ever been actually tested? I remember there being endless discussions about how webs enter the game so late they're useless.

    They are literally available from the game start.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    I think webs are somewhat fine. They delay marines and make it harder for the marines to enter rooms that already have alien presence in it.

    The problem for me is just how tedious and time consuming the placement is.

    Imo, the web placement range should be greatly increased and the build "cooldown" should be removed.

    Currently it is like this:

    Drop web node A > drop web node B > wait
    Drop web node A > drop web node B > wait

    But it should be like this:
    Drop web node A > drop web node B > drop web node C > drop web node D > drop web node E

    It should be droppable as one long string from across a room in a reasonably timely manner, so that you could create webs while doing other things.
    Post edited by Bicsum on
    The_Welsh_Wizard.trixX.BestProfileNameHandschuh
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 848 Advanced user
    Bicsum wrote: »
    But it should be like this:
    Drop web node A > drop web node B > drop web node C > drop web node D > drop web node E

    It should be droppable as one long string from across a room in a reasonably timely manner, so you could create webs while doing other things.

    Yes, NS1 had a much better mechanic with webs...
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    BicsumHandschuh
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