i see aliens win pubs almost constantly. played for like 5 hours straight the other night on a pub. marines won ONCE.
yes ppl dont lerk or fade as much, it seems, and those who do are either very good or very bad, not a whole lot in the middle.
as for the pregame ideas... do you want to never start rounds? if the need is for a "safe" place to practice lifeforms, please dont muddy up pre-game, hard enough to get games going sometimes. leave it to a mod. o, combat how we miss you...
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
To me, Pregame only highlights the problems this game suffers (alien lifeform viability and fun factor vs learning curve), but it should not be turned into something it is not.
Pregame is for fun and practice, as well as a learning tool for new players. It is not meant to be balanced. Onos is a part of the game, so disabling it would not make sense. If spawn camping during Pregame is a problem, then fix it.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
I played one round on 313 short after release and some people gone Lerk cause the higher initial HP.
They wanted to try it out.
Lets hope some of them play Lerk a bit more often now.
Now lets make the Fade great again and replace Stab (wich is useless anyway) with an ability that help new players.
Vets can skip this ability, they skipping stab anyway. So nothing nothing would change for them.
Looks like new players who play fade didnt understand the need of jumping after a short blink to hold the speed. (This mechnic is not very intuitive btw.)
Maybe a new ability that help new players here.
Any ideas? i have none at the moment.
To me, Pregame only highlights the problems this game suffers (alien lifeform viability and fun factor vs learning curve), but it should not be turned into something it is not.
Pregame is for fun and practice, as well as a learning tool for new players.
This.. so much this.
It's just for practice. Getting the feel for your lifeform's TTK -or anything else related to it- is worthwhile regardless of whether you want to do it with a lerk or an Onos.
And forbidding that practice won't stop the root desire to choose JPs or Onos etc. in an actual game. (It might even encourage it, due to curiosity and unfamiliarity)
I wish we could have a deathmatch mode of sorts, absent any economy.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2017
If I was to design a game like NS2, I would layer the complexity over time for accessibility. New players would feel good about upgrading their weapon/lifeform right away, but unlocking their full potential will require more time and practice. Late game weapons and abilities would be very powerful (like Stomp and Jetpack), but challenging to master. So I would not design Fade's highest tier attack (Stab) to be both powerful and very easy to use.
The main problem with Stab (and Fade) is that it is too risky to use. To the average player, they do not feel to be worth their costs. Maybe Fade's basic movement could be simplified, and more complexity could be layered onto proper usage of Metabolize and its late game ability (currently Stab). Hopefully more players would get more enjoyment out of playing Fade, without impacting veterans too much.
Looks like new players who play fade didnt understand the need of jumping after a short blink to hold the speed. (This mechnic is not very intuitive btw.)
Maybe a new ability that help new players here.
Any ideas? i have none at the moment.
Ironhorse and Ixian came up with a pretty good idea to make bink a tap only ability so you can't hold it down. I can't remember the exact details but it sounded promising for this exact problem
Looks like new players who play fade didnt understand the need of jumping after a short blink to hold the speed. (This mechnic is not very intuitive btw.)
Maybe a new ability that help new players here.
Any ideas? i have none at the moment.
Ironhorse and Ixian came up with a pretty good idea to make bink a tap only ability so you can't hold it down. I can't remember the exact details but it sounded promising for this exact problem
Sooooooo... something like the old shadow step? Are we going full circle?
Issue for most with fade/lerk is that at any given point a team has 3 players with 400-1000 hive, 3players with 1000-1700 hive and one player with 3500 hive.
So for average players lerks/fades there is always the strong possibility of getting solo'd when they engage the wrong player.
On the other hand a 3500 hive player against an onos does what??? (Sure the 3500 player will JP/SG and chase you down but 1v1 in a hallway...)
Pebl, he is speaking about a different kind of balance.
I find that Ns2 is usually won within the first 3-4 minutes, or even the first confrontations for rt spots.
The rest is just more or less establishment of those surplus of resources/map control.
So in the long run it is much much better to practice units/weapons available at start up.
YES.
If skulks are able to clear marines on their native and destroy unbuild RT - 90% aliens will win
If marines are able to kill gorge on alien's native extractor - 90% marines will win
Pebl, he is speaking about a different kind of balance.
I find that Ns2 is usually won within the first 3-4 minutes, or even the first confrontations for rt spots.
The rest is just more or less establishment of those surplus of resources/map control.
So in the long run it is much much better to practice units/weapons available at start up.
YES.
If skulks are able to clear marines on their native and destroy unbuild RT - 90% aliens will win
If marines are able to kill gorge on alien's native extractor - 90% marines will win
That is because the skill in pubs is so low like never before. the first engagements just show the huge skill difference.
in comp no game is over after the first minutes. sure u can have a disadvantage at the beginning by loosing early rts or lifeforms, but losing a game is very unlikely.
but its a pub thing. too many aliens still dont know what to do in what situation. the tutorials are good, but they dont teach what to do in general. the maingoals. too many skulks are still playin yolo and suicide in marines. so many gorges think their only purpose is building nice clockwalls and heal harvester. no lerks, no fades.
Comments
yes ppl dont lerk or fade as much, it seems, and those who do are either very good or very bad, not a whole lot in the middle.
as for the pregame ideas... do you want to never start rounds? if the need is for a "safe" place to practice lifeforms, please dont muddy up pre-game, hard enough to get games going sometimes. leave it to a mod. o, combat how we miss you...
Pregame is for fun and practice, as well as a learning tool for new players. It is not meant to be balanced. Onos is a part of the game, so disabling it would not make sense. If spawn camping during Pregame is a problem, then fix it.
They wanted to try it out.
Lets hope some of them play Lerk a bit more often now.
Now lets make the Fade great again and replace Stab (wich is useless anyway) with an ability that help new players.
Vets can skip this ability, they skipping stab anyway. So nothing nothing would change for them.
Looks like new players who play fade didnt understand the need of jumping after a short blink to hold the speed. (This mechnic is not very intuitive btw.)
Maybe a new ability that help new players here.
Any ideas? i have none at the moment.
This.. so much this.
It's just for practice. Getting the feel for your lifeform's TTK -or anything else related to it- is worthwhile regardless of whether you want to do it with a lerk or an Onos.
And forbidding that practice won't stop the root desire to choose JPs or Onos etc. in an actual game. (It might even encourage it, due to curiosity and unfamiliarity)
I wish we could have a deathmatch mode of sorts, absent any economy.
The main problem with Stab (and Fade) is that it is too risky to use. To the average player, they do not feel to be worth their costs. Maybe Fade's basic movement could be simplified, and more complexity could be layered onto proper usage of Metabolize and its late game ability (currently Stab). Hopefully more players would get more enjoyment out of playing Fade, without impacting veterans too much.
Sooooooo... something like the old shadow step? Are we going full circle?
Why couldnt fades have auto chain jump (Quake style), no impact on balance.
Wow I did not know that. That's pretty awful.
Warsow also has auto-bunnyjump - it works great tbh.
So for average players lerks/fades there is always the strong possibility of getting solo'd when they engage the wrong player.
On the other hand a 3500 hive player against an onos does what??? (Sure the 3500 player will JP/SG and chase you down but 1v1 in a hallway...)
YES.
If skulks are able to clear marines on their native and destroy unbuild RT - 90% aliens will win
If marines are able to kill gorge on alien's native extractor - 90% marines will win
That is because the skill in pubs is so low like never before. the first engagements just show the huge skill difference.
in comp no game is over after the first minutes. sure u can have a disadvantage at the beginning by loosing early rts or lifeforms, but losing a game is very unlikely.
but its a pub thing. too many aliens still dont know what to do in what situation. the tutorials are good, but they dont teach what to do in general. the maingoals. too many skulks are still playin yolo and suicide in marines. so many gorges think their only purpose is building nice clockwalls and heal harvester. no lerks, no fades.
Refusing to play the game to any extent, blame stack, build tunnel*