pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Did you already try to move the whole map closer to 0 ? Where there any minimap bug reports on sunday?
Regarding the layout and judging from that video it seems that aliens will go for the southern techpoint most of the time.
I would try to alter the layout or vent routes to make both techpoints viable for aliens to give this maps gameplay some more varity.
Means you need some kind of vent from testing to the support location to flank incoming marines and make them able to defend a possible harvester in support location.
More secured travel routes from Oxygen to testing might be required too.
You should check out the map hydra, since it is a bit small too with more packed action and also more limited travelpaths and strategies tho.
Did you already try to move the whole map closer to 0 ? Where there any minimap bug reports on sunday?
Regarding the layout and judging from that video it seems that aliens will go for the southern techpoint most of the time.
I would try to alter the layout or vent routes to make both techpoints viable for aliens to give this maps gameplay some more varity.
Means you need some kind of vent from testing to the support location to flank incoming marines and make them able to defend a possible harvester in support location.
More secured travel routes from Oxygen to testing might be required too.
You should check out the map hydra, since it is a bit small too with more packed action and also more limited travelpaths and strategies tho.
I have moved the whole map much closer to 0, but not in the current, published build, it will come with the next build.
I have been considering a pretty noticeable layout change, one that I will Likely talk to you and a few other mappers about privately at some point, to see what people think to the idea and any pitfalls that could/should be avoided etc.
My intention has always been to try to encourage variety, but maintain balance, so I definitely want to make Testing a potential 2nd hive location, but without making the map too alien friendly if possible.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited April 2017
Changelog:
Elevator has been given basic detailing.
Oxygen Recycling and Outlook have both been rebuilt and detailed.
Added some improvements to commander invisible.
The map should now have no "blue" rooms, "testing" is still in... well... testing, so it still has bland lighting and texturing.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited September 2017
Changelog:
Rebuilt Marine start to allow for faster rotation to marine naturals.
Rebuilt Western Expansion, Testing + The pass (now merged) and Transfer from scratch.
Added a new room (Newall) and connection to create a "top lane" and allow for more varied alien strategies.
Changed the exterior of Outlook to improve performance and match the new skybox
Improved Occlusion Geo throughout the map (may still have some issues, especially in the newer areas)
Improved Commander Invisible throughout the map.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Just checked out the map as skulk.
Some great improvements overall. I really like how you added a lot of spots for skulks to dodge, take cover or ambush with creative geometry instead of just spamming the map with crates.
Visually I like oxygen recycling especially.
Elevator power node area geometry looks too thin. Might be just the texture tho. You should replace the yellow-black stripes textures on the outer parts of the trimming with something that makes the geometry look more solid.
The room next to it, waste something?, seems too heavily detailed or prop'd compared to the rest of the map.
Also noticing you picking up on the recent trend to use grass rocks, trees and plants Not sure about it, looks nice tho. The grating textures used for the "windows" and other parts in the map don't work well imho. They look bad from far away due to mipmaps.
And I still think this map lacks some more unique locations and visuals that fit more to the trash theme.
Just get someone to dye the lava falls and sea props green so you can make a nice acidic chemicals trash recycling area. That would really stand out.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited May 2017
I would love it if someone could do the acid/waste water ideas, genuinely, if anyone can do it and is willing to do it, let me know.
The grating texture over the windows and in some other parts of the map is temporary, just until I figure out what to do with those areas specifically.
The grass rocks just add a little more colour to the outside areas, I did use the snow ones but they felt dull and drab, so changed them this time around.
I'll take a look at the elevator geo tomorrow when I am available, see what I can do about it.
And yeah "Waste pipes" seems the most detailed because it was a room I built almost solely out of props.
So far, every room i've made on this map has been an experiment of some kind to try to push myself to become a better mapper, some were experimenting with geo (oxygen recycling/incineration) others using props more effectively (Waste Pipes/drainage).
But my main concern with Trash at the moment is that it works balance wise, I want the map to play at a good level (like tram/Jambi/Mineral) once I have that, then i'll look at doing an overhaul to make the map look nice... but I don't expect to make it look fantastic, because I don't believe I have the skill needed to make a map look as good as an official map, so i'd happily take any help I can get there.
The next rooms i'll be updating (not including any balance orientated changed) will be Power Supply and the Eastern side of Routing, they currently lack thematic depth so I figure deal with them first.
MephillesGermanyJoin Date: 2013-08-07Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
You know I am pretty sure some people who are not on SCC discord would love to see screenshots from rooms in the map. Also the guy we worship is called Newell and not Newall
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited September 2017
Alright fine, i'll do screenshots
Just so people know, these rooms are no where near close to being finished, but I like things to look much prettier than greybox for testing, so, enjoy
you should also consider some cover for drainage rt, it can be sniped from outside of drainage room.
also any pipes that go straight up should not be invisible to commander provided they arent extremely tall. I recall the commander built an armory in marine base and it was half inside a pipe due to fact it was invisible to him.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited May 2017
Yeah, I'm going over in my head how to do it without it feeling out of place. and still maintaining the same overall room dynamic.
Same goes for outlook, you should not be able to camp there so easily, its quite frustrating for me because i'm not a good shooter and I was able to stand my ground there against 5 - 6 aliens over 30 seconds without any real difficulty.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2017
I played my first round on this tonight. I was really impressed by the uniqueness of the locations and the visual style. Despite it being my first time in the map, I never got lost and felt like each room was memorable.
I think a lot of the hallways are too narrow, and the sightlines are too short, particularly around marine start. I feel like I kept getting forced into death trap hallways where I was certain to die if I encountered a skulk, much narrower than the hallways on any official map. I'd suggest thinking of the smallest hallway you can think of on an official map, measuring it, and making sure all of your main lanes are always at least that wide.
I'd suggest thinking of the smallest hallway you can think of on an official map, measuring it, and making sure all of your main lanes are always at least that wide.
Eclipse: Triad -> East Access. Two marines barely fit in there at the same time. :P
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited September 2017
Changelog:
- The vent from waste pipes to staircase no longer goes to power supply.
- Added route from power supply to waste pipes
- Rebuilt Outlook from scratch
- Disconnected staircase from powersupply
- Onos can now fit between the pipes in newall
- Added ladder entity to grate in transfer
- Ceiling vent in oxygen should be easier to enter now
- Made the waterfall to power supply route more clear on the minimap
- Fixed transparency issue with the floor around the RT in drainage
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited September 2017
Changelog:
- Redone occlusion geometry from scratch.
- Removed multiple props throughout the map to make rooms less alien favoured.
- Removed the waterfall due to popular demand, replaced with a lava pit and bridge, room now named lava pit.
- Rebuilt and redesigned the eastern half of routing
- Rebuilt and redesigned Power Supply
- Rebuilt the corridor connection from power supply to waste pipes.
- Replaced the props that made the outlook window with grating geometry.
- Tweaked southern expansion to feel more like one room rather than 2 seperate small rooms.
- Blocked one half of the hall that leads from southern expansion to lava pit.
- Increased the height of half of the vent connecting transfer to lava pit, the exit in transfer is now not marine accessible.
- Blocked off the vent in Testing.
- Removed vent from Alien spawn to elevator
- added vent from routing to elevator
- moved the RT in Southern Expansion to the other side of the room.
- Renamed Western Expansion to West Route.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
edited September 2017
Changelog:
- Moved power node and RT in West Route
- Moved power node in Southern Expansion
- Widened the connection between Lava Pit and Transfer
- Made routing changes in Transfer
- Removed the connection from Lava Pit to Power Supply (Cave in? OH NOES!)
- Rebuilt Alien Spawn from scratch (now named Reactor)
- Rebuilt Marine Start from scratch (now name Entrance)
- Commander invisible/Occlusion geometry etc etc yada yada yada... typical QoL stuff.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
After hearing of how the alteration to Transfer really broke flow and made the room feel bad I decided to do a relatively minor layout change.
Changelog:
- Changed routing in Transfer and opened up the area even more than previously.
- Flipped Routing "upside down".
- Altered Lava Pit.
- Numerous fixes to props, occlusion, commander invisible and multiple small holes throughout the map.
- Reduced the amount of props in Waste Pipes to increase performance.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
Changelog:
- Many MANY pathing fixes
- Altered the RT area in testing to make it less frustrating
- Tweaked some collision, occlusion and commander invisible throughout the map
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
Changelog:
- Added vents to the RT area in Testing.
- Altered some textures and some lighting in Transfer to assist with routing
- Added line of sight blocker (scaffold pipes) to Transfer.
- Changed textures of grating that view outside areas to make the outside areas clearer/more visible.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
Trash is now in a state where I consider it to be finished.
If there are any complaints about rooms or layout etc, feel free to continue to leave feedback and I will maintain it, but I don't consider myself good enough to detail it.
If anyone wants to take over with detailing etc, get in contact, its not a problem, i'll happily hand over the file and let someone continue from here.
The map plays well, it seems pretty nicely balanced and when teams are even people enjoy it. I couldn't really asked for much more than that.
I will be releasing a version 2.0 of Trash designed specifically for competitive play in 6 vs 6 environments named ns2_unearthed very soon. unearthed will change the theme and overall idea of the map quite drastically over time.
Thanks go to everyone for the feedback and encouragement I have been given, and a special thanks to @Mephilles for helping build certain parts of the map with/for me.
Comments
Regarding the layout and judging from that video it seems that aliens will go for the southern techpoint most of the time.
I would try to alter the layout or vent routes to make both techpoints viable for aliens to give this maps gameplay some more varity.
Means you need some kind of vent from testing to the support location to flank incoming marines and make them able to defend a possible harvester in support location.
More secured travel routes from Oxygen to testing might be required too.
You should check out the map hydra, since it is a bit small too with more packed action and also more limited travelpaths and strategies tho.
I have moved the whole map much closer to 0, but not in the current, published build, it will come with the next build.
I have been considering a pretty noticeable layout change, one that I will Likely talk to you and a few other mappers about privately at some point, to see what people think to the idea and any pitfalls that could/should be avoided etc.
My intention has always been to try to encourage variety, but maintain balance, so I definitely want to make Testing a potential 2nd hive location, but without making the map too alien friendly if possible.
Elevator has been given basic detailing.
Oxygen Recycling and Outlook have both been rebuilt and detailed.
Added some improvements to commander invisible.
The map should now have no "blue" rooms, "testing" is still in... well... testing, so it still has bland lighting and texturing.
Rebuilt Marine start to allow for faster rotation to marine naturals.
Rebuilt Western Expansion, Testing + The pass (now merged) and Transfer from scratch.
Added a new room (Newall) and connection to create a "top lane" and allow for more varied alien strategies.
Changed the exterior of Outlook to improve performance and match the new skybox
Improved Occlusion Geo throughout the map (may still have some issues, especially in the newer areas)
Improved Commander Invisible throughout the map.
Some great improvements overall. I really like how you added a lot of spots for skulks to dodge, take cover or ambush with creative geometry instead of just spamming the map with crates.
Visually I like oxygen recycling especially.
Elevator power node area geometry looks too thin. Might be just the texture tho. You should replace the yellow-black stripes textures on the outer parts of the trimming with something that makes the geometry look more solid.
The room next to it, waste something?, seems too heavily detailed or prop'd compared to the rest of the map.
Also noticing you picking up on the recent trend to use grass rocks, trees and plants
And I still think this map lacks some more unique locations and visuals that fit more to the trash theme.
Just get someone to dye the lava falls and sea props green so you can make a nice acidic chemicals trash recycling area. That would really stand out.
The grating texture over the windows and in some other parts of the map is temporary, just until I figure out what to do with those areas specifically.
The grass rocks just add a little more colour to the outside areas, I did use the snow ones but they felt dull and drab, so changed them this time around.
I'll take a look at the elevator geo tomorrow when I am available, see what I can do about it.
And yeah "Waste pipes" seems the most detailed because it was a room I built almost solely out of props.
So far, every room i've made on this map has been an experiment of some kind to try to push myself to become a better mapper, some were experimenting with geo (oxygen recycling/incineration) others using props more effectively (Waste Pipes/drainage).
But my main concern with Trash at the moment is that it works balance wise, I want the map to play at a good level (like tram/Jambi/Mineral) once I have that, then i'll look at doing an overhaul to make the map look nice... but I don't expect to make it look fantastic, because I don't believe I have the skill needed to make a map look as good as an official map, so i'd happily take any help I can get there.
The next rooms i'll be updating (not including any balance orientated changed) will be Power Supply and the Eastern side of Routing, they currently lack thematic depth so I figure deal with them first.
Other than that... time to look at the map myself
Just so people know, these rooms are no where near close to being finished, but I like things to look much prettier than greybox for testing, so, enjoy
Pics no longer exist!
Added a vent from staircase to Drainage.
Added RR occlusion geo.
Removed Newall lights from the commander invisible group.
also any pipes that go straight up should not be invisible to commander provided they arent extremely tall. I recall the commander built an armory in marine base and it was half inside a pipe due to fact it was invisible to him.
Same goes for outlook, you should not be able to camp there so easily, its quite frustrating for me because i'm not a good shooter and I was able to stand my ground there against 5 - 6 aliens over 30 seconds without any real difficulty.
I think a lot of the hallways are too narrow, and the sightlines are too short, particularly around marine start. I feel like I kept getting forced into death trap hallways where I was certain to die if I encountered a skulk, much narrower than the hallways on any official map. I'd suggest thinking of the smallest hallway you can think of on an official map, measuring it, and making sure all of your main lanes are always at least that wide.
Overall though I was really impressed.
Eclipse: Triad -> East Access. Two marines barely fit in there at the same time. :P
- The vent from waste pipes to staircase no longer goes to power supply.
- Added route from power supply to waste pipes
- Rebuilt Outlook from scratch
- Disconnected staircase from powersupply
- Onos can now fit between the pipes in newall
- Added ladder entity to grate in transfer
- Ceiling vent in oxygen should be easier to enter now
- Made the waterfall to power supply route more clear on the minimap
- Fixed transparency issue with the floor around the RT in drainage
Haha, it took you this long! XD
And yet you know that Brainfood is Deathshroud... FOR SHAME DUDE... FOR SHAME!!! :P
- Redone occlusion geometry from scratch.
- Removed multiple props throughout the map to make rooms less alien favoured.
- Removed the waterfall due to popular demand, replaced with a lava pit and bridge, room now named lava pit.
- Rebuilt and redesigned the eastern half of routing
- Rebuilt and redesigned Power Supply
- Rebuilt the corridor connection from power supply to waste pipes.
- Replaced the props that made the outlook window with grating geometry.
- Tweaked southern expansion to feel more like one room rather than 2 seperate small rooms.
- Blocked one half of the hall that leads from southern expansion to lava pit.
- Increased the height of half of the vent connecting transfer to lava pit, the exit in transfer is now not marine accessible.
- Blocked off the vent in Testing.
- Removed vent from Alien spawn to elevator
- added vent from routing to elevator
- moved the RT in Southern Expansion to the other side of the room.
- Renamed Western Expansion to West Route.
- Moved power node and RT in West Route
- Moved power node in Southern Expansion
- Widened the connection between Lava Pit and Transfer
- Made routing changes in Transfer
- Removed the connection from Lava Pit to Power Supply (Cave in? OH NOES!)
- Rebuilt Alien Spawn from scratch (now named Reactor)
- Rebuilt Marine Start from scratch (now name Entrance)
- Commander invisible/Occlusion geometry etc etc yada yada yada... typical QoL stuff.
Minimap -
Changelog:
- Changed routing in Transfer and opened up the area even more than previously.
- Flipped Routing "upside down".
- Altered Lava Pit.
- Numerous fixes to props, occlusion, commander invisible and multiple small holes throughout the map.
- Reduced the amount of props in Waste Pipes to increase performance.
Minimap -
- Many MANY pathing fixes
- Altered the RT area in testing to make it less frustrating
- Tweaked some collision, occlusion and commander invisible throughout the map
- Added vents to the RT area in Testing.
- Altered some textures and some lighting in Transfer to assist with routing
- Added line of sight blocker (scaffold pipes) to Transfer.
- Changed textures of grating that view outside areas to make the outside areas clearer/more visible.
If there are any complaints about rooms or layout etc, feel free to continue to leave feedback and I will maintain it, but I don't consider myself good enough to detail it.
If anyone wants to take over with detailing etc, get in contact, its not a problem, i'll happily hand over the file and let someone continue from here.
The map plays well, it seems pretty nicely balanced and when teams are even people enjoy it. I couldn't really asked for much more than that.
I will be releasing a version 2.0 of Trash designed specifically for competitive play in 6 vs 6 environments named ns2_unearthed very soon. unearthed will change the theme and overall idea of the map quite drastically over time.
Thanks go to everyone for the feedback and encouragement I have been given, and a special thanks to @Mephilles for helping build certain parts of the map with/for me.