The energy efficiency upgrade helps a lot here, but you need a moonpool and vehicle mod before you can make one, which is found much later on.
Problem is the early game. Mid to late, game is fine.
This is just my opinion here, but a survival game where i dont struggle to survive early game is a boring game to me. when you begin, things are supposed to be harder than later in the game. Is it too tedious to survive early game at the moment? for me the answer is no, but of course this is an impression that can vary from players to players.
as @Sidchicken mentionned earlier there tons of fish, salt and coral right outside the lifepod so thirst and food can be satiated very easily. Its yours to decide wether you'll devote some time periodically to maintain this or spend one big session and create enough to last you awhile, such is the mojo of early game. wether or not it is too tedious for you is your own decision. if it is then thats why the Devs created game modes that has food/water disabled, as well as power consumption.
How's this: I challenge any experienced players with all the tools to act like they don't. Spend a single evening (at least few RL hours of game play) in the game without using your power cell charger, moonpool, Cyclops, water filtration, alien containment, still suit, growbeds. If you run out of power in your Seamoth, you have to hunt resources to craft another power cell. If you need food and drink, you can ONLY use fish and salt you find out in the open. Go ahead and use your battery charger as you do get directed to that early on and it's easy to find.
Challenge accepted. Well, I started a new save with the update. I don't have any of those tools yet except the power cell charger and even then I crafted two spare power cells for the seamoth just in case it took awhile to find. I knew where to look biome-wise (I'm not familiar with wreck locations, had a bug that made finding them pointless until recently so just ignored them), but I'd also already scoured the shallows and kelp areas for frags and resources before moving on to the grassy plateau areas so perhaps that works a proxy.
Salt is relatively uncommon before getting to the grasslands and I use it mostly for water production at this point, but it hasn't been difficult to explore the mushroom forest and grasslands for resources/frags even without salted fish. My inventory fills up before my hunger/thirst meter demands attention so I have to go back to unload anyway.
My early-game strategy is to take night time to hunt for peepers and stuff them all in a locker to cook as needed. Unintentional feature perhaps since they stay alive in storage, but there are so many around my base I don't think it'd be a problem.
There is also the grav-sphere which I used on my last playthrough (or as far as I got before the update dropped) and it works great for helping alleviate the food and water issue. Its also available from the beginning without needing frags.
So far the power management isn't gamebreaking for me, but it isn't much fun, either.
right now I'm held back by not being able to find a single power cell recharging station fragment. There is nothing in the sparse reef, and they aren't turning up in the grassy plateau like they used to. I'm guessing in this playthrough I am a victim of the RNG demons. When I went to the one mushroom forest wreck for propulsion canon fragments, I found exactly one. In the entire wreck there was one fragment. Luckily i had already been to the Aurora and got the fragment there so I was good. Still was cutting it very close. Fragment spawn rates definitely need to be adjusted.
Otherwise power consumption is manageable, but so limiting. I can imagine exploring the larger wrecks to be really time consuming, especially the deeper ones. If you can't rely on nearby power sources like light or heat to recharge you, that means making multiple trips to explore places in the deeper areas.
It's also restricting for gameplay progression. Building the charging stations is priority no. 1 so you need those fragments (mentioned my issues with them already), bioreactor (easy), MP room to build the reactor in (also easy, if you know how. Newbies are a bit out of luck already), then farm a massive amount of resources to build a habitat to facilitate all these. You must also find the moon pool and seamoth mod station fragments as quickly as possible, so you can temper the energy consumption with upgrades. This forcces us all down a very narrow path for a very long time, and we aren't even getting into the late ship building materials.
I do just fine with four Solar Panels on my station to charge up the power Cells and Batteries I use up. Got half a Locker full of power supplies from exploring the Aurora.
SidchickenPlumbing the subnautican depthsJoin Date: 2016-02-16Member: 213125Members
@Herugrim I usually go to the underwater islands for the propulsion cannon. Powercell charger I would keep looking for in the sparse reef - maybe try the wreck in the seatreader path as well?
As for power issues, I've successfully run a battery charger and a powercell charger off of 4 solar panels. You don't need a bioreactor and a multipurpose room to be able to charge.
@Herugrim I usually go to the underwater islands for the propulsion cannon. Powercell charger I would keep looking for in the sparse reef - maybe try the wreck in the seatreader path as well?
As for power issues, I've successfully run a battery charger and a powercell charger off of 4 solar panels. You don't need a bioreactor and a multipurpose room to be able to charge.
Battery and Cell charger don't need a lot of energy. It's the moonpool that will kill your supply. You need a lot of redundant power supplies to cover that. I suppose you could always only dock if your at full power and keep using the chargers instead, at least for now. I used to run a base off of only two solar panels and the bioreactor, which was just backup for at night. Can't do that with this new system.
Plus the chargers combined with water filtration and fabrication all combined with oxygen consumption can make for a pretty impressive drain on your systems.
SidchickenPlumbing the subnautican depthsJoin Date: 2016-02-16Member: 213125Members
Water filters and the moonpool have always been power hogs, and I haven't seen any change at all in the base power usage. The only change I see from PRAWN update to Dangerous Creatures update is the jump in energy usage by the seamoth itself. This will indirectly increase power demand at your base if you're docking a well-drained moth all the time, but like you said you can just park outside and swap charged powercells in. Plus once you have the upgrade console you can solar charge that puppy and not care anymore.
The way of getting oxygen from water is electrolysis. For one person that would take 5.925kJ/min to supply a grown person with oxygen.
One square meter of solar panel generates around 1KW which converts into 60KJ/min so around 30 cm squared of solar panel should generate enough power for one person to breath.
So there should be no problem breathing in the base.
As for the seamoth, if a power-cell was the same size as a large car battery power wise, (because it is the future and they made battery's smaller) equaling 1KW/h, then it would take 10 hours for the seamoth to use up it's charge just via using oxygen.
So after all that I am fine with this feature as long as they balance it to real life or just all round balance it, (as long as 10 hours = around two days, and they don't have time magically going faster too much. )
Incorrect. According to maths done by people debunking those "trion gills" rebreather thing, you need to process 6L of water per breath, at 100% efficiency. That's an insane amount of pumping for a man-portable device, but not so bad for a pump mounted on a seabase. It's a 1/4 horsepower pump pushing water through a large oxygen exchange membrane, I guess?
Now that I look at MORE MATHS though, it might actually be more efficient to use electrolysis, as 1/4 hp is MORE energy than 5.9 kJ/min. Or perhaps passive exchange (FUTURE TECH!!!!) membranes hidden in bases, letting the water move past naturally...
Or just put plants in bases, idunno.
What part was wrong?
Also as also said on debunking video's it is impossible for those Triton Gills to work as you cant filter oxygen particles out of water because they are bigger that water.
I guess you could have the oxygen in the water react with a metal then split the metal oxide to form oxygen and metal (like how gills, lungs and the circulatory system works). But that is very over the top.
I think that the Oxygen usage for bases and ships as long as they have power is justified as in Real Life one would need Oxygen Scrubbers to live undersea to filter the oxygen out of the water.
I think that the Oxygen usage for bases and ships as long as they have power is justified as in Real Life one would need Oxygen Scrubbers to live undersea to filter the oxygen out of the water.
Yes, though in a base that currently only requires that the power be on. It doesn't drain the base power - if your base is run by solar panels you don't lose juice at night unless you're running actual appliances (chargers, fabricator, etc). The Seamoth, in contrast, burns energy faster trying to keep you breathing. Not sure about the clops.
I think that the Oxygen usage for bases and ships as long as they have power is justified as in Real Life one would need Oxygen Scrubbers to live undersea to filter the oxygen out of the water.
Yea but i would like this in harcore mode just not in survival or at least freedom
I think that the Oxygen usage for bases and ships as long as they have power is justified as in Real Life one would need Oxygen Scrubbers to live undersea to filter the oxygen out of the water.
Just wanted to let you know you made me look up science and I hate you for it.
If you want to talk realism, a submarine that isn't nuclear can run for up to two full days on batteries with oxygen scrubbers. Nuclear submarines don't have to surface at all for air. They are limited by food supply in ratio to the crew more than that. That's modern day.
This is in the future when humans can travel through the great void of space to other planets. I would assume our ability to produce oxygen to have improved in that time. Realistically, the engineering department of the Aurora would be a nightmare if they burned through power cells as much as the seamoth does. Realism is not your friend in this debate.
That said I would like to clarify that while I don't like the oxygen nerf (breathing was not "2EZ") I do not think it is gamebreaking. It is just that combined with the string of previous nerfs, this' game's padding is right up to my personal tolerance levels. Other people may be fine with UWE pushing it further and that's fine. Good for them. But I will not keep playing if the already heavily unbalanced engine keeps getting nerfed with no buffs to actually 'balance' it.
I like the survival elements, and I appreciate challenging gameplay, but forcing me to stop playing to gather more resources because redundant materials are now required to progress whereas they used to be a luxury for people who liked to farm and wanted to build ridiculously large habitats, is not challenging. It's forcing me to waste time which I do not enjoy.
That's just me and I'm just one fat nerd who's already bought the game so meh, whatever.
I'm fine with the current state of the game. It's not that hard to start out with just the lifepod. If I need storage I build waterproof lockers and keep them directly under the lifepod on the ocean floor. They're easy to build and you can keep as many as you want (though I only keep two filled with food and water and keeping some food/water on me for extended exploration trips).
I think taking the risk to find and gather resources to advance is part of playing the game any survival game. Otherwise it'd be boring to be able to have everything right away. Then again I'm used to the really old RPGs where you had to grind, talk to every villager and explore the entire world map without hints to find out where I have to go next...
Comments
This is just my opinion here, but a survival game where i dont struggle to survive early game is a boring game to me. when you begin, things are supposed to be harder than later in the game. Is it too tedious to survive early game at the moment? for me the answer is no, but of course this is an impression that can vary from players to players.
as @Sidchicken mentionned earlier there tons of fish, salt and coral right outside the lifepod so thirst and food can be satiated very easily. Its yours to decide wether you'll devote some time periodically to maintain this or spend one big session and create enough to last you awhile, such is the mojo of early game. wether or not it is too tedious for you is your own decision. if it is then thats why the Devs created game modes that has food/water disabled, as well as power consumption.
Challenge accepted. Well, I started a new save with the update. I don't have any of those tools yet except the power cell charger and even then I crafted two spare power cells for the seamoth just in case it took awhile to find. I knew where to look biome-wise (I'm not familiar with wreck locations, had a bug that made finding them pointless until recently so just ignored them), but I'd also already scoured the shallows and kelp areas for frags and resources before moving on to the grassy plateau areas so perhaps that works a proxy.
Salt is relatively uncommon before getting to the grasslands and I use it mostly for water production at this point, but it hasn't been difficult to explore the mushroom forest and grasslands for resources/frags even without salted fish. My inventory fills up before my hunger/thirst meter demands attention so I have to go back to unload anyway.
My early-game strategy is to take night time to hunt for peepers and stuff them all in a locker to cook as needed. Unintentional feature perhaps since they stay alive in storage, but there are so many around my base I don't think it'd be a problem.
There is also the grav-sphere which I used on my last playthrough (or as far as I got before the update dropped) and it works great for helping alleviate the food and water issue. Its also available from the beginning without needing frags.
right now I'm held back by not being able to find a single power cell recharging station fragment. There is nothing in the sparse reef, and they aren't turning up in the grassy plateau like they used to. I'm guessing in this playthrough I am a victim of the RNG demons. When I went to the one mushroom forest wreck for propulsion canon fragments, I found exactly one. In the entire wreck there was one fragment. Luckily i had already been to the Aurora and got the fragment there so I was good. Still was cutting it very close. Fragment spawn rates definitely need to be adjusted.
Otherwise power consumption is manageable, but so limiting. I can imagine exploring the larger wrecks to be really time consuming, especially the deeper ones. If you can't rely on nearby power sources like light or heat to recharge you, that means making multiple trips to explore places in the deeper areas.
It's also restricting for gameplay progression. Building the charging stations is priority no. 1 so you need those fragments (mentioned my issues with them already), bioreactor (easy), MP room to build the reactor in (also easy, if you know how. Newbies are a bit out of luck already), then farm a massive amount of resources to build a habitat to facilitate all these. You must also find the moon pool and seamoth mod station fragments as quickly as possible, so you can temper the energy consumption with upgrades. This forcces us all down a very narrow path for a very long time, and we aren't even getting into the late ship building materials.
I'm just too lazy for farm all the extra materials to make a field of solar panels. Seems a bit excessive to just charge some power cells.
People sure like their hyperbole.
As for power issues, I've successfully run a battery charger and a powercell charger off of 4 solar panels. You don't need a bioreactor and a multipurpose room to be able to charge.
I CAN DREAM HARROLD
Battery and Cell charger don't need a lot of energy. It's the moonpool that will kill your supply. You need a lot of redundant power supplies to cover that. I suppose you could always only dock if your at full power and keep using the chargers instead, at least for now. I used to run a base off of only two solar panels and the bioreactor, which was just backup for at night. Can't do that with this new system.
Plus the chargers combined with water filtration and fabrication all combined with oxygen consumption can make for a pretty impressive drain on your systems.
What part was wrong?
Also as also said on debunking video's it is impossible for those Triton Gills to work as you cant filter oxygen particles out of water because they are bigger that water.
I guess you could have the oxygen in the water react with a metal then split the metal oxide to form oxygen and metal (like how gills, lungs and the circulatory system works). But that is very over the top.
Yes, though in a base that currently only requires that the power be on. It doesn't drain the base power - if your base is run by solar panels you don't lose juice at night unless you're running actual appliances (chargers, fabricator, etc). The Seamoth, in contrast, burns energy faster trying to keep you breathing. Not sure about the clops.
Yea but i would like this in harcore mode just not in survival or at least freedom
Just wanted to let you know you made me look up science and I hate you for it.
If you want to talk realism, a submarine that isn't nuclear can run for up to two full days on batteries with oxygen scrubbers. Nuclear submarines don't have to surface at all for air. They are limited by food supply in ratio to the crew more than that. That's modern day.
This is in the future when humans can travel through the great void of space to other planets. I would assume our ability to produce oxygen to have improved in that time. Realistically, the engineering department of the Aurora would be a nightmare if they burned through power cells as much as the seamoth does. Realism is not your friend in this debate.
That said I would like to clarify that while I don't like the oxygen nerf (breathing was not "2EZ") I do not think it is gamebreaking. It is just that combined with the string of previous nerfs, this' game's padding is right up to my personal tolerance levels. Other people may be fine with UWE pushing it further and that's fine. Good for them. But I will not keep playing if the already heavily unbalanced engine keeps getting nerfed with no buffs to actually 'balance' it.
I like the survival elements, and I appreciate challenging gameplay, but forcing me to stop playing to gather more resources because redundant materials are now required to progress whereas they used to be a luxury for people who liked to farm and wanted to build ridiculously large habitats, is not challenging. It's forcing me to waste time which I do not enjoy.
That's just me and I'm just one fat nerd who's already bought the game so meh, whatever.
I think taking the risk to find and gather resources to advance is part of playing the game any survival game. Otherwise it'd be boring to be able to have everything right away. Then again I'm used to the really old RPGs where you had to grind, talk to every villager and explore the entire world map without hints to find out where I have to go next...