What is more valuable?

NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
edited August 2016 in NS2 General Discussion
My purposes of asking this question do not permit me to give context. Just A or B. You decide.
I know this is the same as the other one. Just please answer the question and bare with me.
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Comments

  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2016
    If we are playing to win, then it depends on how many hives aliens have. If they are on one hive, It's obviously best to kill that hive as it instantly ends the game. Otherwise it's probably better to get rid of that Onos.

    It also depends on how many players there are, how many other lifeforms there are, how much PvE, including upgrades, are tied to the hive you're killing, and it depends on what you have to sacrifice or risk in the processes.
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Both questions I asked depend on the situation. At the time of posting this 31 people have voted in the would you rather thread, while only 24 have voted here. I know all 7 of these people have seen this other thread and chose not to vote in it.

    Is it that much harder to decide when I phrase the question a little differently?
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  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited August 2016
    I actually thought you created the second thread by mistake.

    I'm really curious to know where you're going with this. It seems kind of random.
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  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    I can't speak of others, but I'm not voting because it feels like you are leading me on and it irks me.

    For the purpose of your experiment, I would assume that the disparity comes because one is more personal. Not sure what conclusions you are trying to draw from that.
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  • tallhotblondetallhotblonde Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174770Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2016
    Nordic wrote: »
    Both questions I asked depend on the situation. At the time of posting this 31 people have voted in the would you rather thread, while only 24 have voted here. I know all 7 of these people have seen this other thread and chose not to vote in it.

    Is it that much harder to decide when I phrase the question a little differently?

    one could have opened up all of the current top topics on the forums in different tabs (from the uwe home page side bar thing) and Voted on one, seen the other was the same and tutted you and closed the tab without voting.


    .... On which poll they chose to vote on would depend on which one they opened first and this has external implications regardless of the "would you rather" title.
    SCIENTIFICALLY VOID :]
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Aeglos wrote: »
    I can't speak of others, but I'm not voting because it feels like you are leading me on and it irks me.
    I will give a little information as to why I started these threads. The score given for killing a brand new hive or killing a brand new onos is 30. In a conversation someone suggested I use "would you rather" as opposed to "What has more value" in my question. I was trying these questions out in discord last night and got varied responses. At that point I decided it might be better if the responses were recorded. I then made these threads.
    The purpose of these threads is to satisfy my own curiosity. It is interesting to see how people justify their answer. I find it fascinating how some people are answering differently on each poll. Am I leading you on? I don't think so. I am just curious and thought it might bring about an interesting discussion.
    tallhotblonde wrote: »
    SCIENTIFICALLY VOID :]
    I never intended for either of these polls to be remotely scientific.
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  • jrgnjrgn Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58289Members
    edited August 2016
    The vagueness of language has been illustrated. The short phrasing in the polls makes the questions very diffuse. What does "valuable" mean in this context? "I would rather" also is depending on many factors as some posted. So i guess you do not get better answers than your questions :)
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    jrgn wrote: »
    The vagueness of language has been illustrated. The short phrasing in the polls also makes the questions somewhat vague. What does "valuable" mean in this context? "I would rather" also is depending on many factors as some posted. So i guess you do not get better answers than your questions :)

    The score system gives 30 points for killing a brand new onos or a brand new hive. The score system has no context. I can not give any context in my question. I only give you the question.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    I can settle this quite quickly, oughta show ya the value of said space cow...


    Onos F4
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  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2016
    Nordic wrote: »
    I was trying these questions out in discord last night and got varied responses. At that point I decided it might be better if the responses were recorded. I then made these threads.
    The purpose of these threads is to satisfy my own curiosity. It is interesting to see how people justify their answer. I find it fascinating how some people are answering differently on each poll.
    I am fascinated how you would think that these two questions would probe the same response. It's not a minor rephrasing. One is asking, "would you rather", which is asking for your own subjective preference. While the other "which is more valuable", is implying an objective value for the sake of your team.

    I can't believe, that you don't see the difference @Nordic.
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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I do see the difference. If I did not, I would not have asked it in two separate questions. Maybe if I said that a different way. I find it fascinating how some people are answering differently on each poll, but not consistently. Someone may say they would rather kill the hive, but the onos is more valuable. Or vise versa. Another person would do the opposite. Each person has different justifications. This is as expected but still fascinating.
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  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited August 2016
    Sooooo, if it's about score point rating, then I'd say it's fine that they're valued equally in the current score system.

    Theoretically there should at least be player count in the equation, because the TRES income for the team doesn't scale unlike the PRES income, which is used for more oni, which makes each individual onos less valueable compared to a hive.
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  • IxianIxian Denmark Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
    But tres structures does scale? a battery with 3 turrets in a triable is more than 10 times worth what a battery with a single turret is. Same goes for a whip under the influence of a crag just to mention two examples.

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  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited August 2016
    That has nothing to do with what I said.

    The higher the player count, the higher the pres income, the higher the amount of oni, the more overall score you get for clearing the way to the hive.

    The TRES income stays the same no matter the player count, which means that you can drop the same amount of hives in a 6vs6 comapred to a 12vs12.

    One onos in a 6vs6 has the same value as two oni in a 12vs12, but you currently get 30 score in a 6vs6 and 60 score points in a 12vs12, which makes hive kills on higher slot counts more valueable than onos kills.




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  • IxianIxian Denmark Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
    I misread - Thanks for the clarification though :)
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  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited August 2016
    Despite the moderate necessity, it would be quite difficult to get score to scale differently based on player count.
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