Thank you to all the teams, players and admins which were part of the league. I personally was not bothered by the changes but I felt that the league was too inactive for me.
I wish all the remaining teams and UWE the best. Thank you for this amazing game and see you in Ns3 (?).
Sorry to see an 'era' come to an end but like all things have a beginning, there's bound to be an ending on the horizon too.
Now with that said, if we're going to turn off the lights 'n all, how about we just have NS2 turn into exactly what NS1 was just with 'improved visuals'???
Not like the 'casuals' who 'supposedly' will be playing the game would notice the change anyway except wondering where all the alien structures are at when no one on aliens go gorge.
Oh and I do not believe we should expect "NS3" unless they somehow make a killing off subnautica being available for the Xbone 'scamsole market', even if they did I still don't see it become a thing unless they're going to make it in an 'established' engine and HOPEFULLY take a good L O N G hard look at what made NS1 so great and why NS2 just isn't living up to the 'legend', sure to a certain extent it does but the main issue I've always had with NS2 is the lack of 'true asymmetry' compared to NS1.
Should be said also that the V A S T majority of people who want to play an "FPS" will play '*uck of *ooty' or other generic garbage straight off the assembly lines from 'great publishers' like EA & Activision, so the 'timing' haven't really been on UWE's side.
What I'm really saying is there are more stupid people than smart people these days and so a game like NS is just too 'advanced' for them to get into compared to what they've become 'accustomed' to for the last decade or so.
Lastly I'll just say that I wish UWE the best with Subnautica and hopefully they'll be getting their 'lucky break' after all these years, well at least on the financial front of things even if it does mean that they had to sign a deal with the devil that is the 'scamsole market' to get it.
I will 'retire' from NS2 as well and hopefully we'll 'stumble' into one another in this 'little game' called "Star Citizen", if you come across a ******* ******* named M. Grimes just keep saying "rope" and they should get the hint...
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
I just want to clarify my post that I made earlier.
The reason I made the post saying "out with the old, in with the new" was essentially me venting frustration with the attitude of many of the competitive players (note: not ALL members, just some). I am going to miss some members, hell I already missed goldens streams way before the season was cancelled. I was essentially in the mood to piss people off that have pissed me off for the past 2 years... it seems to have worked a bit too well.
The situation is really shitty, I wish the NSL wasn't dead/dying, but the fault doesn't lie solely with the PDT or UWE, a lot of the fault also lies with the NSL for being so difficult to work with and having such unrealistic expectations. Most people offer up their idea of a solution and it either wouldn't work, would take too much time and effort to maintain, or is less efficient than the beta branch we were given... the beta branch wasn't ideal I know, but it was better than nothing, yet the NSL refused to even try it, thus making its creation pointless and imo spitting on the efforts of the PDT who were trying to help. Not only that but they then blame the PDT for not doing "anything" for the competitive community... when in fact a lot of what has been done is heavily influenced by the comp scene.
But when you try talking to people about all of that they don't believe a word you say and they call you a whipping boy of UWE. the comp scene has been wanting change for a while, and when offered it a large portion loses their minds and become absolute idiots.
That is my reason for saying "out with the old, in with the new." I will not miss the BM, the toxicity or the Drama that many comp players created for no reason. I'm glad those people are leaving and hope the new wave (if there is one) will be more inclined to treat people with respect... I will miss the dedication that many people put into the community and the game, I have nothing but respect for the admins and everyone involved that made the last 9 seasons happen, I have some very fond memories and am incredibly grateful for their time and work.
But yeah, I may still have failed at explaining myself, especially considering I ramble a lot, but I hope you all now see my reasons for my comment at least a little more clearly now.
the comp scene has been wanting change for a while
What?
I believe the only change comp players ever wanted was bug fixes. For example, facing the right direction when spawning. Performance fixes, like when map loading times were decreased significantly. Things that uwe walked away from in the first place.
Current game changes were tailored to pub players, b/c the majority felt the game was stale and/or wasn't rookie friendly enough. Since your "numbers" show that nsl players don't really make a difference and don't really matter, its not worth for the current dev team to support them. Things could of been handled differently which would of made working with nsl modders and admins a lot easier if comp was a priority for uwe.
Now with that said, if we're going to turn off the lights 'n all, how about we just have NS2 turn into exactly what NS1 was just with 'improved visuals'???
Not like the 'casuals' who 'supposedly' will be playing the game would notice the change anyway except wondering where all the alien structures are at when no one on aliens go gorge.
Oh and I do not believe we should expect "NS3" unless they somehow make a killing off subnautica being available for the Xbone 'scamsole market', even if they did I still don't see it become a thing unless they're going to make it in an 'established' engine and HOPEFULLY take a good L O N G hard look at what made NS1 so great and why NS2 just isn't living up to the 'legend', sure to a certain extent it does but the main issue I've always had with NS2 is the lack of 'true asymmetry' compared to NS1.
Should be said also that the V A S T majority of people who want to play an "FPS" will play '*uck of *ooty' or other generic garbage straight off the assembly lines from 'great publishers' like EA & Activision, so the 'timing' haven't really been on UWE's side.
What I'm really saying is there are more stupid people than smart people these days and so a game like NS is just too 'advanced' for them to get into compared to what they've become 'accustomed' to for the last decade or so.
Lastly I'll just say that I wish UWE the best with Subnautica and hopefully they'll be getting their 'lucky break' after all these years, well at least on the financial front of things even if it does mean that they had to sign a deal with the devil that is the 'scamsole market' to get it.
Subnautica seems to have done extremely well for them, considering the amount of Steam reviews it has (double NS2 already), but there's a 0.1% chance UWE would ever make NS3 and I wouldn't want them too. They should enjoy the success of Subnautica and waste any cash on NS3.
NS3 (or whatever the actual name would be) should be left to the community. There are enough game engines out there and enough good programmers in the community to make it happen.
Remaking NS1 in Unity/Unreal would be a decent start and give everyone an agreed goal. Then the good parts of NS2 could be rolled in later. A simplified art style would mean custom maps would be easier to make and baked lighting would allow everyone to get a decent frame rate.
Now with that said, if we're going to turn off the lights 'n all, how about we just have NS2 turn into exactly what NS1 was just with 'improved visuals'???
Not like the 'casuals' who 'supposedly' will be playing the game would notice the change anyway except wondering where all the alien structures are at when no one on aliens go gorge.
Oh and I do not believe we should expect "NS3" unless they somehow make a killing off subnautica being available for the Xbone 'scamsole market', even if they did I still don't see it become a thing unless they're going to make it in an 'established' engine and HOPEFULLY take a good L O N G hard look at what made NS1 so great and why NS2 just isn't living up to the 'legend', sure to a certain extent it does but the main issue I've always had with NS2 is the lack of 'true asymmetry' compared to NS1.
Should be said also that the V A S T majority of people who want to play an "FPS" will play '*uck of *ooty' or other generic garbage straight off the assembly lines from 'great publishers' like EA & Activision, so the 'timing' haven't really been on UWE's side.
What I'm really saying is there are more stupid people than smart people these days and so a game like NS is just too 'advanced' for them to get into compared to what they've become 'accustomed' to for the last decade or so.
Lastly I'll just say that I wish UWE the best with Subnautica and hopefully they'll be getting their 'lucky break' after all these years, well at least on the financial front of things even if it does mean that they had to sign a deal with the devil that is the 'scamsole market' to get it.
Subnautica seems to have done extremely well for them, considering the amount of Steam reviews it has (double NS2 already), but there's a 0.1% chance UWE would ever make NS3 and I wouldn't want them too. They should enjoy the success of Subnautica and waste any cash on NS3.
NS3 (or whatever the actual name would be) should be left to the community. There are enough game engines out there and enough good programmers in the community to make it happen.
Remaking NS1 in Unity/Unreal would be a decent start and give everyone an agreed goal. Then the good parts of NS2 could be rolled in later. A simplified art style would mean custom maps would be easier to make and baked lighting would allow everyone to get a decent frame rate.
You seem to massively underestimate the work required to build a good game.
Now with that said, if we're going to turn off the lights 'n all, how about we just have NS2 turn into exactly what NS1 was just with 'improved visuals'???
Not like the 'casuals' who 'supposedly' will be playing the game would notice the change anyway except wondering where all the alien structures are at when no one on aliens go gorge.
Oh and I do not believe we should expect "NS3" unless they somehow make a killing off subnautica being available for the Xbone 'scamsole market', even if they did I still don't see it become a thing unless they're going to make it in an 'established' engine and HOPEFULLY take a good L O N G hard look at what made NS1 so great and why NS2 just isn't living up to the 'legend', sure to a certain extent it does but the main issue I've always had with NS2 is the lack of 'true asymmetry' compared to NS1.
Should be said also that the V A S T majority of people who want to play an "FPS" will play '*uck of *ooty' or other generic garbage straight off the assembly lines from 'great publishers' like EA & Activision, so the 'timing' haven't really been on UWE's side.
What I'm really saying is there are more stupid people than smart people these days and so a game like NS is just too 'advanced' for them to get into compared to what they've become 'accustomed' to for the last decade or so.
Lastly I'll just say that I wish UWE the best with Subnautica and hopefully they'll be getting their 'lucky break' after all these years, well at least on the financial front of things even if it does mean that they had to sign a deal with the devil that is the 'scamsole market' to get it.
Subnautica seems to have done extremely well for them, considering the amount of Steam reviews it has (double NS2 already), but there's a 0.1% chance UWE would ever make NS3 and I wouldn't want them too. They should enjoy the success of Subnautica and waste any cash on NS3.
NS3 (or whatever the actual name would be) should be left to the community. There are enough game engines out there and enough good programmers in the community to make it happen.
Remaking NS1 in Unity/Unreal would be a decent start and give everyone an agreed goal. Then the good parts of NS2 could be rolled in later. A simplified art style would mean custom maps would be easier to make and baked lighting would allow everyone to get a decent frame rate.
You seem to massively underestimate the work required to build a good game.
Now with that said, if we're going to turn off the lights 'n all, how about we just have NS2 turn into exactly what NS1 was just with 'improved visuals'???
Not like the 'casuals' who 'supposedly' will be playing the game would notice the change anyway except wondering where all the alien structures are at when no one on aliens go gorge.
Oh and I do not believe we should expect "NS3" unless they somehow make a killing off subnautica being available for the Xbone 'scamsole market', even if they did I still don't see it become a thing unless they're going to make it in an 'established' engine and HOPEFULLY take a good L O N G hard look at what made NS1 so great and why NS2 just isn't living up to the 'legend', sure to a certain extent it does but the main issue I've always had with NS2 is the lack of 'true asymmetry' compared to NS1.
Should be said also that the V A S T majority of people who want to play an "FPS" will play '*uck of *ooty' or other generic garbage straight off the assembly lines from 'great publishers' like EA & Activision, so the 'timing' haven't really been on UWE's side.
What I'm really saying is there are more stupid people than smart people these days and so a game like NS is just too 'advanced' for them to get into compared to what they've become 'accustomed' to for the last decade or so.
Lastly I'll just say that I wish UWE the best with Subnautica and hopefully they'll be getting their 'lucky break' after all these years, well at least on the financial front of things even if it does mean that they had to sign a deal with the devil that is the 'scamsole market' to get it.
Subnautica seems to have done extremely well for them, considering the amount of Steam reviews it has (double NS2 already), but there's a 0.1% chance UWE would ever make NS3 and I wouldn't want them too. They should enjoy the success of Subnautica and waste any cash on NS3.
NS3 (or whatever the actual name would be) should be left to the community. There are enough game engines out there and enough good programmers in the community to make it happen.
Remaking NS1 in Unity/Unreal would be a decent start and give everyone an agreed goal. Then the good parts of NS2 could be rolled in later. A simplified art style would mean custom maps would be easier to make and baked lighting would allow everyone to get a decent frame rate.
You seem to massively underestimate the work required to build a good game.
How so?
Sigh.
I'm not even sure where to begin here.
I suppose a very rough analogy would be like asking a town's community to build a quality skyscraper.
Now with that said, if we're going to turn off the lights 'n all, how about we just have NS2 turn into exactly what NS1 was just with 'improved visuals'???
Not like the 'casuals' who 'supposedly' will be playing the game would notice the change anyway except wondering where all the alien structures are at when no one on aliens go gorge.
Oh and I do not believe we should expect "NS3" unless they somehow make a killing off subnautica being available for the Xbone 'scamsole market', even if they did I still don't see it become a thing unless they're going to make it in an 'established' engine and HOPEFULLY take a good L O N G hard look at what made NS1 so great and why NS2 just isn't living up to the 'legend', sure to a certain extent it does but the main issue I've always had with NS2 is the lack of 'true asymmetry' compared to NS1.
Should be said also that the V A S T majority of people who want to play an "FPS" will play '*uck of *ooty' or other generic garbage straight off the assembly lines from 'great publishers' like EA & Activision, so the 'timing' haven't really been on UWE's side.
What I'm really saying is there are more stupid people than smart people these days and so a game like NS is just too 'advanced' for them to get into compared to what they've become 'accustomed' to for the last decade or so.
Lastly I'll just say that I wish UWE the best with Subnautica and hopefully they'll be getting their 'lucky break' after all these years, well at least on the financial front of things even if it does mean that they had to sign a deal with the devil that is the 'scamsole market' to get it.
Subnautica seems to have done extremely well for them, considering the amount of Steam reviews it has (double NS2 already), but there's a 0.1% chance UWE would ever make NS3 and I wouldn't want them too. They should enjoy the success of Subnautica and waste any cash on NS3.
NS3 (or whatever the actual name would be) should be left to the community. There are enough game engines out there and enough good programmers in the community to make it happen.
Remaking NS1 in Unity/Unreal would be a decent start and give everyone an agreed goal. Then the good parts of NS2 could be rolled in later. A simplified art style would mean custom maps would be easier to make and baked lighting would allow everyone to get a decent frame rate.
You seem to massively underestimate the work required to build a good game.
How so?
What coolitic said.
Making games is a full time job. It requires not only programmers, but artists, level designers etc. You need to work out a concept, build it, test it, make it work on every system, publish it... it's just generally a huge amount of work (and investment) required.
https://discord.gg/0n3t7wXxHlRiCB9C ... I'm freshly in skyscraper business with ma village of pioneers and heroes... If you wanna join greatness and show the guys with doubt in thier soul what is possible if you believe in yourself and the ones arround you... join the DarkOrder (PM me to be considered)
https://discord.gg/0n3t7wXxHlRiCB9C ... I'm freshly in skyscraper business with ma village of pioneers and heroes... If you wanna join greatness and show the guys with doubt in thier soul what is possible if you believe in yourself and the ones arround you... join the DarkOrder (PM me to be considered)
So a couple more things on why we rejected the Beta branch to maintain the NSL:
First of all, its a band-aid solution. Sure, we could have potentially run a few matches, but as @_mod pointed out it would have been a painful process with all the problems that we would run into. Even a Playtester told me that they still run into issues with switching between the beta branches (and these are people that SHOULD know how to do this better than anyone!), so imagine coordinating 150+ people with language barriers to run a league this way. On top of this, from what I was told, currently NS2+ doesn't even work on the beta branch, yet we're supposed to carry on without it?
The next huge problem with the beta branch is that it would have destroyed our ability to bring in new players and maintain the Gather system. New potential players would turn around the moment they saw that they need to switch to the beta branch in order to go from pubbing to playing a competitive round of NS2. Newcomers tournament? Forget it. Entry into competitive would have been stifled and eventually it would have withered and died. Then there are the people that sign up for Gathers and you're dealing with @_mod 's scenarios all over again with LESS patient players. People cry Bloody Mary waiting 10 minutes for a Gather to start, imagine having to wait 30 minutes because some Russian guy can barely understand English and doesn't know how to switch to the Beta branch.
"Oh well you could just have your community stay on the beta branch with your own pubs." Really? What happened when Combat got switched to its own independent game? RIP. And they actually had a really talented team of developers constantly at work adding new content. Beta branch would have splintered NS2 community and killed any growth for the NSL.
To the Bots that keep saying "LOL UWE gave them what they needed to continue playing comp" you really haven't taken the time to consider all the factors, so please mm2.
I have not been keeping up this thread, so this may be a bit late.
Although us playtesters occasionally run into a problem when switching between builds, it is really minimal. There are two kinds of problems we run into.
An old playtester comes back to PT and doesn't know that we are switching builds this way. Then they have to be explained how.
Steam servers are down and we can't download the beta branch.
The first one is the kind of problem you would run into. We even have a google doc made with pictures showing how to do it. This hypothetically could of been done with the comp branch in that there could be a google doc ready.
I did a gather for the first time in years last night. The gather was more of a painful process than switching branches. Sure, people wouldn't like it. But it is not all that hard.
So a couple more things on why we rejected the Beta branch to maintain the NSL:
First of all, its a band-aid solution. Sure, we could have potentially run a few matches, but as @_mod pointed out it would have been a painful process with all the problems that we would run into. Even a Playtester told me that they still run into issues with switching between the beta branches (and these are people that SHOULD know how to do this better than anyone!), so imagine coordinating 150+ people with language barriers to run a league this way. On top of this, from what I was told, currently NS2+ doesn't even work on the beta branch, yet we're supposed to carry on without it?
The next huge problem with the beta branch is that it would have destroyed our ability to bring in new players and maintain the Gather system. New potential players would turn around the moment they saw that they need to switch to the beta branch in order to go from pubbing to playing a competitive round of NS2. Newcomers tournament? Forget it. Entry into competitive would have been stifled and eventually it would have withered and died. Then there are the people that sign up for Gathers and you're dealing with @_mod 's scenarios all over again with LESS patient players. People cry Bloody Mary waiting 10 minutes for a Gather to start, imagine having to wait 30 minutes because some Russian guy can barely understand English and doesn't know how to switch to the Beta branch.
"Oh well you could just have your community stay on the beta branch with your own pubs." Really? What happened when Combat got switched to its own independent game? RIP. And they actually had a really talented team of developers constantly at work adding new content. Beta branch would have splintered NS2 community and killed any growth for the NSL.
To the Bots that keep saying "LOL UWE gave them what they needed to continue playing comp" you really haven't taken the time to consider all the factors, so please mm2.
I have not been keeping up this thread, so this may be a bit late.
Although us playtesters occasionally run into a problem when switching between builds, it is really minimal. There are two kinds of problems we run into.
An old playtester comes back to PT and doesn't know that we are switching builds this way. Then they have to be explained how.
Steam servers are down and we can't download the beta branch.
The first one is the kind of problem you would run into. We even have a google doc made with pictures showing how to do it. This hypothetically could of been done with the comp branch in that there could be a google doc ready.
I did a gather for the first time in years last night. The gather was more of a painful process than switching branches. Sure, people wouldn't like it. But it is not all that hard.
Holy shit can you please stop posting. NUMEROUS people from the competitive community have posted and made it perfectly clear that it wasn't just one thing that led to the demise of the ENSL season (and possibly competitive forever). You literally just set this thread back pages by posting your ignorant comment. If I have to read one more god damn post about "well I switched builds once and we had other people switch builds before and we had google docs and blah blah blah" holy shit man.
P.S. 3,688 post count is not something to be proud of. More listening, less talking.
So a couple more things on why we rejected the Beta branch to maintain the NSL:
First of all, its a band-aid solution. Sure, we could have potentially run a few matches, but as @_mod pointed out it would have been a painful process with all the problems that we would run into. Even a Playtester told me that they still run into issues with switching between the beta branches (and these are people that SHOULD know how to do this better than anyone!), so imagine coordinating 150+ people with language barriers to run a league this way. On top of this, from what I was told, currently NS2+ doesn't even work on the beta branch, yet we're supposed to carry on without it?
The next huge problem with the beta branch is that it would have destroyed our ability to bring in new players and maintain the Gather system. New potential players would turn around the moment they saw that they need to switch to the beta branch in order to go from pubbing to playing a competitive round of NS2. Newcomers tournament? Forget it. Entry into competitive would have been stifled and eventually it would have withered and died. Then there are the people that sign up for Gathers and you're dealing with @_mod 's scenarios all over again with LESS patient players. People cry Bloody Mary waiting 10 minutes for a Gather to start, imagine having to wait 30 minutes because some Russian guy can barely understand English and doesn't know how to switch to the Beta branch.
"Oh well you could just have your community stay on the beta branch with your own pubs." Really? What happened when Combat got switched to its own independent game? RIP. And they actually had a really talented team of developers constantly at work adding new content. Beta branch would have splintered NS2 community and killed any growth for the NSL.
To the Bots that keep saying "LOL UWE gave them what they needed to continue playing comp" you really haven't taken the time to consider all the factors, so please mm2.
I have not been keeping up this thread, so this may be a bit late.
Although us playtesters occasionally run into a problem when switching between builds, it is really minimal. There are two kinds of problems we run into.
An old playtester comes back to PT and doesn't know that we are switching builds this way. Then they have to be explained how.
Steam servers are down and we can't download the beta branch.
The first one is the kind of problem you would run into. We even have a google doc made with pictures showing how to do it. This hypothetically could of been done with the comp branch in that there could be a google doc ready.
I did a gather for the first time in years last night. The gather was more of a painful process than switching branches. Sure, people wouldn't like it. But it is not all that hard.
Holy **** can you please stop posting. NUMEROUS people from the competitive community have posted and made it perfectly clear that it wasn't just one thing that led to the demise of the ENSL season (and possibly competitive forever). You literally just set this thread back pages by posting your ignorant comment. If I have to read one more god damn post about "well I switched builds once and we had other people switch builds before and we had google docs and blah blah blah" holy **** man.
P.S. 3,688 post count is not something to be proud of. More listening, less talking.
Holy **** can you please stop posting. NUMEROUS people from the competitive community have posted and made it perfectly clear that it wasn't just one thing that led to the demise of the ENSL season (and possibly competitive forever). You literally just set this thread back pages by posting your ignorant comment. If I have to read one more god damn post about "well I switched builds once and we had other people switch builds before and we had google docs and blah blah blah" holy **** man.
P.S. 3,688 post count is not something to be proud of. More listening, less talking.
Now this is the kind of post that requires moderation. Anyone?
Also note the irony that if you (@notpalagi) hadn't posted this, there might not have even a response, but hey, now we're talking about it again!
Three things:
1. @Nordic expresses awareness of the fact that this has been mentioned before in the very first sentence of that post
2. It's an important argument that deserves to be mentioned by everyone who supports it, to get an accurate representation of opinions around here
3. stfu
So it turns out that just as I predicted, "a new competitive scene developed".
Yea? So can you show me a gather played the last weeks? Or the new teams playing?
We actually played a gather last week, though it was for a custom map that I am in the process of developing. We used the system to seed, but didn't have it fire through it, meaning there is no record. Honestly, this has happened before a year and some months (though never to this extent and for the same reasons), though I don't remember why. There was a period of no gathers or PUGs for a few months and the Reddit/Comp PUG mumble suffered for it. I remember having to do Aussie pugs to make up for it. After whatever it was had been resolved, everybody US moved to the Gather system on the site.
Obviously, no gathers is a thing, and it sucks. @MajorTico and I are gonna work hard to try to reboot gathers, and are currently talking over how we want to run a league for next season. There's a lot of people still around that want to play this game at a competitive level, and we're gonna give it to them.
Changing other builds, especially in a league with mercs is not feasible. It's a worldwide league with many, many languages, everyone has different internet speeds and data caps. It's currently about 100MB difference between Live build and the ENSL branch. Given that mercs are commonly grabbed in the case of an emergency absence of player, you're requiring a player to download 100MB. This does not sound like a lot, but there are repercussions:
Switching between branches causes confusion for players wanting to play the vanilla game, which limits the number of people who play vanilla as well as comp, creating a bigger psychological barrier and divide than you would expect. People who play comp more commonly than not also play vanilla. Switching between several times a week is a very nasty and annoying process.
Downloading, installing, and loading into a map takes time, especially if Steam requires a player to validate after downloading. Matches have a timer before each requiring a team to have six players and well as be completely ready with their strategies and tactics in mind. Many of these people are taken from a pool of "who you know" and "who is online" meaning that it's very limited. Most of the time it took me around five to ten minutes to respond to a merc request, because I'm a busy guy.
Even when inviting the public to come playtest new stuff, we typically don't get that many people, I'm sure due to the weirdness of changing a branch. Same effect. People just can't be arsed with doing it, it's annoying, it's outside their comfort zone. It is as has been said, it's a band-aid fix. Band-aid fixes won't help the competitive community, nor will it fix the community as a whole.
I think you misunderstood me there a bit. I was replying to SupaDoopaNoodles post because it was only stupid and obviously false.
However I do appreciate that you guys are taking over NSL and want to continue giving the people an environment to play competitive NS2.
Also I understand why the NSL branch is not a good idea, I never said it was. That is the reason why I think a comp mod (either official or unofficial) is mandatory for a good comp experience. Of course that would not be easy to maintain and I understand it might be impossible. And I can only speak for myself here, but at the current state of vanilla NS2 I have no desire to continue comp playing. And I am not the only one.
That does not mean there are no people left who still want to play and it does not mean there cannot be a new community forming. I just think it is very unlikely to happen that the NSL will get that many teams ever again. And even if it will, I am sure it is very understandable that people like me who have been playing the current season and wanted to continue playing are not amused when they are getting shit on to please a potential new community. This criticism is solely directed towards UWE however, I want to make clear that I have the biggest respect for everyone who made (or is making) the NSL work DESPITE UWE.
For the playtests: Since the only public playtests are at NA times, it is pretty impossible for me to take part. Otherwise I would.
Also I want to say that I absolutely LOVE custom maps, whenever you are testing next time and I can make the time (I am from EU), tell me and I will be there. I played Mineshaft on sunday if that is the map you are talking about.
Comments
Fair enough; but then people should just admit it to themselves and stop finding excuses. Excuses never really achieve anything.
I wish all the remaining teams and UWE the best. Thank you for this amazing game and see you in Ns3 (?).
Now with that said, if we're going to turn off the lights 'n all, how about we just have NS2 turn into exactly what NS1 was just with 'improved visuals'???
Not like the 'casuals' who 'supposedly' will be playing the game would notice the change anyway except wondering where all the alien structures are at when no one on aliens go gorge.
Oh and I do not believe we should expect "NS3" unless they somehow make a killing off subnautica being available for the Xbone 'scamsole market', even if they did I still don't see it become a thing unless they're going to make it in an 'established' engine and HOPEFULLY take a good L O N G hard look at what made NS1 so great and why NS2 just isn't living up to the 'legend', sure to a certain extent it does but the main issue I've always had with NS2 is the lack of 'true asymmetry' compared to NS1.
Should be said also that the V A S T majority of people who want to play an "FPS" will play '*uck of *ooty' or other generic garbage straight off the assembly lines from 'great publishers' like EA & Activision, so the 'timing' haven't really been on UWE's side.
What I'm really saying is there are more stupid people than smart people these days and so a game like NS is just too 'advanced' for them to get into compared to what they've become 'accustomed' to for the last decade or so.
Lastly I'll just say that I wish UWE the best with Subnautica and hopefully they'll be getting their 'lucky break' after all these years, well at least on the financial front of things even if it does mean that they had to sign a deal with the devil that is the 'scamsole market' to get it.
I will 'retire' from NS2 as well and hopefully we'll 'stumble' into one another in this 'little game' called "Star Citizen", if you come across a ******* ******* named M. Grimes just keep saying "rope" and they should get the hint...
The reason I made the post saying "out with the old, in with the new" was essentially me venting frustration with the attitude of many of the competitive players (note: not ALL members, just some). I am going to miss some members, hell I already missed goldens streams way before the season was cancelled. I was essentially in the mood to piss people off that have pissed me off for the past 2 years... it seems to have worked a bit too well.
The situation is really shitty, I wish the NSL wasn't dead/dying, but the fault doesn't lie solely with the PDT or UWE, a lot of the fault also lies with the NSL for being so difficult to work with and having such unrealistic expectations. Most people offer up their idea of a solution and it either wouldn't work, would take too much time and effort to maintain, or is less efficient than the beta branch we were given... the beta branch wasn't ideal I know, but it was better than nothing, yet the NSL refused to even try it, thus making its creation pointless and imo spitting on the efforts of the PDT who were trying to help. Not only that but they then blame the PDT for not doing "anything" for the competitive community... when in fact a lot of what has been done is heavily influenced by the comp scene.
But when you try talking to people about all of that they don't believe a word you say and they call you a whipping boy of UWE. the comp scene has been wanting change for a while, and when offered it a large portion loses their minds and become absolute idiots.
That is my reason for saying "out with the old, in with the new." I will not miss the BM, the toxicity or the Drama that many comp players created for no reason. I'm glad those people are leaving and hope the new wave (if there is one) will be more inclined to treat people with respect... I will miss the dedication that many people put into the community and the game, I have nothing but respect for the admins and everyone involved that made the last 9 seasons happen, I have some very fond memories and am incredibly grateful for their time and work.
But yeah, I may still have failed at explaining myself, especially considering I ramble a lot, but I hope you all now see my reasons for my comment at least a little more clearly now.
What?
I believe the only change comp players ever wanted was bug fixes. For example, facing the right direction when spawning. Performance fixes, like when map loading times were decreased significantly. Things that uwe walked away from in the first place.
Current game changes were tailored to pub players, b/c the majority felt the game was stale and/or wasn't rookie friendly enough. Since your "numbers" show that nsl players don't really make a difference and don't really matter, its not worth for the current dev team to support them. Things could of been handled differently which would of made working with nsl modders and admins a lot easier if comp was a priority for uwe.
NS3 (or whatever the actual name would be) should be left to the community. There are enough game engines out there and enough good programmers in the community to make it happen.
Remaking NS1 in Unity/Unreal would be a decent start and give everyone an agreed goal. Then the good parts of NS2 could be rolled in later. A simplified art style would mean custom maps would be easier to make and baked lighting would allow everyone to get a decent frame rate.
You seem to massively underestimate the work required to build a good game.
Sigh.
I'm not even sure where to begin here.
I suppose a very rough analogy would be like asking a town's community to build a quality skyscraper.
What coolitic said.
Making games is a full time job. It requires not only programmers, but artists, level designers etc. You need to work out a concept, build it, test it, make it work on every system, publish it... it's just generally a huge amount of work (and investment) required.
Edit: Damn, what's the use saying don't forget when it was not ?
Of course. That's usually part of publishing, though. (Or at least the publisher's job.)
Looks like meat's back on the menu boys!
More like tofu burgers.
Kylo Ren, is that you?
I have not been keeping up this thread, so this may be a bit late.
Although us playtesters occasionally run into a problem when switching between builds, it is really minimal. There are two kinds of problems we run into.
The first one is the kind of problem you would run into. We even have a google doc made with pictures showing how to do it. This hypothetically could of been done with the comp branch in that there could be a google doc ready.
I did a gather for the first time in years last night. The gather was more of a painful process than switching branches. Sure, people wouldn't like it. But it is not all that hard.
Holy shit can you please stop posting. NUMEROUS people from the competitive community have posted and made it perfectly clear that it wasn't just one thing that led to the demise of the ENSL season (and possibly competitive forever). You literally just set this thread back pages by posting your ignorant comment. If I have to read one more god damn post about "well I switched builds once and we had other people switch builds before and we had google docs and blah blah blah" holy shit man.
P.S. 3,688 post count is not something to be proud of. More listening, less talking.
So it turns out that just as I predicted, "a new competitive scene developed".
Yea? So can you show me a gather played the last weeks? Or the new teams playing?
Now this is the kind of post that requires moderation. Anyone?
Also note the irony that if you (@notpalagi) hadn't posted this, there might not have even a response, but hey, now we're talking about it again!
Three things:
1. @Nordic expresses awareness of the fact that this has been mentioned before in the very first sentence of that post
2. It's an important argument that deserves to be mentioned by everyone who supports it, to get an accurate representation of opinions around here
3. stfu
edit: Because I words
We actually played a gather last week, though it was for a custom map that I am in the process of developing. We used the system to seed, but didn't have it fire through it, meaning there is no record. Honestly, this has happened before a year and some months (though never to this extent and for the same reasons), though I don't remember why. There was a period of no gathers or PUGs for a few months and the Reddit/Comp PUG mumble suffered for it. I remember having to do Aussie pugs to make up for it. After whatever it was had been resolved, everybody US moved to the Gather system on the site.
Obviously, no gathers is a thing, and it sucks. @MajorTico and I are gonna work hard to try to reboot gathers, and are currently talking over how we want to run a league for next season. There's a lot of people still around that want to play this game at a competitive level, and we're gonna give it to them.
Changing other builds, especially in a league with mercs is not feasible. It's a worldwide league with many, many languages, everyone has different internet speeds and data caps. It's currently about 100MB difference between Live build and the ENSL branch. Given that mercs are commonly grabbed in the case of an emergency absence of player, you're requiring a player to download 100MB. This does not sound like a lot, but there are repercussions:
Switching between branches causes confusion for players wanting to play the vanilla game, which limits the number of people who play vanilla as well as comp, creating a bigger psychological barrier and divide than you would expect. People who play comp more commonly than not also play vanilla. Switching between several times a week is a very nasty and annoying process.
Downloading, installing, and loading into a map takes time, especially if Steam requires a player to validate after downloading. Matches have a timer before each requiring a team to have six players and well as be completely ready with their strategies and tactics in mind. Many of these people are taken from a pool of "who you know" and "who is online" meaning that it's very limited. Most of the time it took me around five to ten minutes to respond to a merc request, because I'm a busy guy.
Even when inviting the public to come playtest new stuff, we typically don't get that many people, I'm sure due to the weirdness of changing a branch. Same effect. People just can't be arsed with doing it, it's annoying, it's outside their comfort zone. It is as has been said, it's a band-aid fix. Band-aid fixes won't help the competitive community, nor will it fix the community as a whole.
I think you misunderstood me there a bit. I was replying to SupaDoopaNoodles post because it was only stupid and obviously false.
However I do appreciate that you guys are taking over NSL and want to continue giving the people an environment to play competitive NS2.
Also I understand why the NSL branch is not a good idea, I never said it was. That is the reason why I think a comp mod (either official or unofficial) is mandatory for a good comp experience. Of course that would not be easy to maintain and I understand it might be impossible. And I can only speak for myself here, but at the current state of vanilla NS2 I have no desire to continue comp playing. And I am not the only one.
That does not mean there are no people left who still want to play and it does not mean there cannot be a new community forming. I just think it is very unlikely to happen that the NSL will get that many teams ever again. And even if it will, I am sure it is very understandable that people like me who have been playing the current season and wanted to continue playing are not amused when they are getting shit on to please a potential new community. This criticism is solely directed towards UWE however, I want to make clear that I have the biggest respect for everyone who made (or is making) the NSL work DESPITE UWE.
For the playtests: Since the only public playtests are at NA times, it is pretty impossible for me to take part. Otherwise I would.
Also I want to say that I absolutely LOVE custom maps, whenever you are testing next time and I can make the time (I am from EU), tell me and I will be there. I played Mineshaft on sunday if that is the map you are talking about.
But did ya poke it with a stick, that is totally mandatory at some point to determine zombie status yaknow!
Only divorce or abortion cards, sorry
Well, Dunno, it smells funny atm