Stop making everything parasite you and remove the alien commander

The_Welsh_Wizard

Parasiting should be a skulk ability. Right now you got op rupture and free from the Start webs that do that Job too what makes scouting skulks less needed. I know it helps rookies because they do not know how to parasite or scout at all, but then again they do not know how to use the map, so they wouldn"t See a parasited Marine anyway.

Also instead of trying to give the commander more op abilities, try to remove the comm entirely. You are logged out Most of the time anyway.

Kasharic

Oh my lord am I tired of seeing comments like this...

A GOOD alien commander will utilize drifter management well, he/she will use all comm abilities effectively and will rarely be out of the hive. (early game being out of the hive makes sense, after lerks come up a good comm is way more effective in the chair)

NS2 is NOT ns1, stop living in the past, Alien comm should stay, it is fun to play and a great demonstration of the difference between marine and aliens play.

If it weren't for alien commanding, I would have stopped playing NS2 after a few hours, I've always enjoyed commanding both teams since I started and I'm incredibly grateful to see that they are FINALLY getting some love.

Vetinari

It could be worse. Remember pre250 lerk spikes?

IronHorse

Aliens need assistance early game.. so if a few webs (that can be easily spotted and instantly killed with a welder) assist with dealing with the early game aggression .. cool.
Late game marines have already improved as well... so these are both the changes that needed to happen.
Whether they are effective in doing so, is another matter.

Zek

Honestly in hindsight I think adding the alien commander in NS2 was probably a mistake, it's been an uphill struggle from day one to give the comm a clearly defined role. That said it's an intrinsic part of the game now so there's no point in arguing for its removal, never gonna happen.

_INTER_

Having an Alien commander is an inevitable necessity to have fun and fair games in pub too, looking at todays player attitude.

RevanCorana

Early game commanders don't anything to do on both sides, which is why you see marine coms build arms lab and alien com go out after having dropped cysts.
But alien commander the intensity can escalate pretty quickly, depending on the size of the server and how many structures and drifters you have to micro.
All this combined with the cyst mechanic..
Just because as marine com you have to constantly watch your team does not make it more intensive.
I tend to run out of bind groups much more quickly as alien com.

remi

Zek wrote: »

Honestly in hindsight I think adding the alien commander in NS2 was probably a mistake, it's been an uphill struggle from day one to give the comm a clearly defined role. That said it's an intrinsic part of the game now so there's no point in arguing for its removal, never gonna happen.

I generally agree with this. Unifying the resource model and adding a second commander removed a lot of the asymmetry that existed between the teams and in the group dynamics you had to deal with and made the experience more homogeneous. Marines had a much stronger hierarchy, and aliens were much more of a collective... it fit the game, and it made playing the two sides very different, regardless of the weapons/classes you used. It was also incredibly difficult to balance, which I think was the main motivation for the design change in NS2.

I also agree, NS2 is NS2. We can be nostalgic about how it was in NS1, but it's unrealistic to consider bringing everything from NS1 into NS2 and expecting it to be as awesome as it once was, or even for it to work at all.

CCTEE

remi wrote: »

Zek wrote: »

Honestly in hindsight I think adding the alien commander in NS2 was probably a mistake, it's been an uphill struggle from day one to give the comm a clearly defined role. That said it's an intrinsic part of the game now so there's no point in arguing for its removal, never gonna happen.

I generally agree with this. Unifying the resource model and adding a second commander removed a lot of the asymmetry that existed between the teams and in the group dynamics you had to deal with and made the experience more homogeneous. Marines had a much stronger hierarchy, and aliens were much more of a collective... it fit the game, and it made playing the two sides very different, regardless of the weapons/classes you used. It was also incredibly difficult to balance, which I think was the main motivation for the design change in NS2.

I also agree, NS2 is NS2. We can be nostalgic about how it was in NS1, but it's unrealistic to consider bringing everything from NS1 into NS2 and expecting it to be as awesome as it once was, or even for it to work at all.

The glory of NS1-aliens suffers a bit from selective memory. Quite often (pub) games in NS1 where ruined by aliens mismanaging their resourcepool (no hive saver, noone builing rts etc). Meaning the game was over before it was actually on its way.
But who remembers shit-happens rounds like that after 10 years?

Kouji_San

NS Newbie Gorge, hmm what's this... Sensory Chamber...

*plop*

Rage++

remi

CCTEE wrote: »

The glory of NS1-aliens suffers a bit from selective memory. Quite often (pub) games in NS1 where ruined by aliens mismanaging their resourcepool (no hive saver, noone builing rts etc). Meaning the game was over before it was actually on its way.
But who remembers ****-happens rounds like that after 10 years?

Yeah, I always played on TGNS which had rather high levels of teamwork, so this was more the rarity. In general pubs, I imagine that was probably pretty common and very very painful.

maD_maX_

While we can all agree that NS2 =/= NS1

We can all hope that NS3 = NS1

Zek

remi wrote: »

Zek wrote: »

Honestly in hindsight I think adding the alien commander in NS2 was probably a mistake, it's been an uphill struggle from day one to give the comm a clearly defined role. That said it's an intrinsic part of the game now so there's no point in arguing for its removal, never gonna happen.

I generally agree with this. Unifying the resource model and adding a second commander removed a lot of the asymmetry that existed between the teams and in the group dynamics you had to deal with and made the experience more homogeneous. Marines had a much stronger hierarchy, and aliens were much more of a collective... it fit the game, and it made playing the two sides very different, regardless of the weapons/classes you used. It was also incredibly difficult to balance, which I think was the main motivation for the design change in NS2.

I also agree, NS2 is NS2. We can be nostalgic about how it was in NS1, but it's unrealistic to consider bringing everything from NS1 into NS2 and expecting it to be as awesome as it once was, or even for it to work at all.

I do like marine PRes at least. But yeah I miss gorges being the backbone of the alien team. Though i preferred the perma-gorges of early NS1 to the temp-gorges of later versions. Even if they spent TRes that would be more interesting to me than a commander.

remi

I liked when all the marines needed to beg the comm for weapons.

deathshroud

Zek wrote: »

Honestly in hindsight I think adding the alien commander in NS2 was probably a mistake, it's been an uphill struggle from day one to give the comm a clearly defined role. That said it's an intrinsic part of the game now so there's no point in arguing for its removal, never gonna happen.

^^this, if they ever do ns3 then dont bother with the alien com. But for ns2 its here to stay.

IeptBarakat

remi wrote: »

I liked when all the marines needed to beg the comm for weapons.

I still do in games where I end up waiting 20+ minutes for them to research shotguns.

aeroripper

A GOOD alien commander will utilize drifter management well, he/she will use all comm abilities effectively and will rarely be out of the hive. (early game being out of the hive makes sense, after lerks come up a good comm is way more effective in the chair)

^ This. The alien khamm is instrumental in supporting his team, especially in the mid-late game.

Kouji_San

On a side note, I miss the triggered "The Enemy Approaches" on the Sensory Chamber (Mushroom in NS2?)

Foxy

Alien commander is awesome. Especially late game when it requires more micro than the Marine comm. I love trying to crush that last techpoint or marines main as Alien Comm, with drifter micro, echoing eggs/crags/shifts/shades around. Its fantastic. NS3 shouldn't lose the Alien Comm, just have more options for both commanders, so tech paths are not as linear.

IeptBarakat

Kouji_San wrote: »

On a side note, I miss the triggered "The Enemy Approaches" on the Sensory Chamber (Mushroom in NS2?)

That and the NS1 hivesight that was brought up in the ns2 simplification document would also be quite useful to have.

DC_Darkling

I loved ns1, I loved ns1 more then I do ns2.
I would have loved for ns2 to be without the khammander.

But the fact is that its there. Its balanced around it, its to late to change now. So while we have that comm, lets USE it.


And yes, I am not purely nostalgic about ns1. It was fun, but it had its own serious issues.

_INTER_

I also remember in NS1, that there was a race who evolved Gorge the fastest and then builds a chamber. Because that way you could force the rest of the team to the upgrade path you liked. This often resulted in half the alien team quitting to RR in the first minute into the game, half of the team being Gorges and insults / kick calls against the offending players.

maD_maX_

But I feel like the alternate tech paths had more viability. Without infestation gorges could place forward chambers for support. A forward SC chamber and scent-of-fear and the ambushes were amazing. Add to that vent chambers, a gorge could place a DC or SC in a vent then build OC's in the hallway within range and could hold a lane almost single handed.

IeptBarakat

maD_maX_ wrote: »

But I feel like the alternate tech paths had more viability. Without infestation gorges could place forward chambers for support. A forward SC chamber and scent-of-fear and the ambushes were amazing. Add to that vent chambers, a gorge could place a DC or SC in a vent then build OC's in the hallway within range and could hold a lane almost single handed.

I understand that for balance and gameplay reasons if kept as it was the gorge would be able to flood the map with structures, but I think allowing the gorge to place one of the original chambers would diversify individual gorge play and add some new teamplay elements. Sort of like an ultimate in regards to structures.

10 P.Res: Chamber - Evolves into either a Offense, Defense, Movement, or Sensory Chamber. 1/1 Placement cap.

Wake

Go back to NS1 stuff and watch NS2 joining it in the grave.
NS2 is way beyond NS1 when it drops down to individual acting and tolerance.