Aliens trying to evolve produces many failed attempts across the spectrum.

RustyRusty Canada Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185850Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver Posts: 65 Advanced user
One game changer that I think currently breaks the game is the evolution system. If you are a skulk and you want to evolve into a gorge IN the marine base - or some other type of last stand position - it can be extremely infuriating. We need a better solution for the " press B - click gorge. click upgrades - click evolve " only to hear the error sound due to not being in a valid position to evolve. Perhaps what could work is not allow aliens to press " b" if they cannot evolve at that location. Instead of an error when they press " B" have the hive say " please move to a bigger location to evolve "
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Comments

  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    I think it would be better done if there was a small message underneath the lifeform saying [Not enough space], because being unable to open up the evolve menu would be pretty frustrating just because you can't fit an Onos in that exact spot.
    ydyxuucooliticAurOn2
  • xuuxuu Sydney, Australia Join Date: 2014-11-26 Member: 199814Members Posts: 9 Fully active user
    I think it would be better done if there was a small message underneath the lifeform saying [Not enough space], because being unable to open up the evolve menu would be pretty frustrating just because you can't fit an Onos in that exact spot.

    I understand what you are saying but I actually prefer Rusty's original suggestion of having the menu outright not open and an error sound and message presented if there isn't enough space. It needs to be direct and obvious. This would be a huge improvement to the evolve system and help new players also.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    Back in the day (NS 1.03), we simply evolved into the mighty untrackable floor Onos!

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    _INTER_AurOn2
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    xuu wrote: »
    I think it would be better done if there was a small message underneath the lifeform saying [Not enough space], because being unable to open up the evolve menu would be pretty frustrating just because you can't fit an Onos in that exact spot.

    I understand what you are saying but I actually prefer Rusty's original suggestion of having the menu outright not open and an error sound and message presented if there isn't enough space. It needs to be direct and obvious. This would be a huge improvement to the evolve system and help new players also.

    I'd rather not lose a lot of good evolution spots just because an inexperienced player thought he could evolve into something that clearly wouldn't fit in that specific area.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    On a more serious note, why not have a similar interface comparable to how Gorgie places eggs/hydras/clogs/tunnels. But in this case an Egg model, showing green/red for when you can place it, during which you select your evolutions and once done instantly hop into your egg?

    Would also solve the exit teleport issue which sometimes happens...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    Yojimbo_INTER_twiliteblue
  • xuuxuu Sydney, Australia Join Date: 2014-11-26 Member: 199814Members Posts: 9 Fully active user
    xuu wrote: »
    I think it would be better done if there was a small message underneath the lifeform saying [Not enough space], because being unable to open up the evolve menu would be pretty frustrating just because you can't fit an Onos in that exact spot.

    I understand what you are saying but I actually prefer Rusty's original suggestion of having the menu outright not open and an error sound and message presented if there isn't enough space. It needs to be direct and obvious. This would be a huge improvement to the evolve system and help new players also.

    I'd rather not lose a lot of good evolution spots just because an inexperienced player thought he could evolve into something that clearly wouldn't fit in that specific area.

    I don't understand your reply?

    My suggestion was that if there wasn't enough space, the menu wouldn't open and would instead give the player feedback on why. If there is space to evolve then the menu opens as per normal.
    Yojimbo
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    xuu wrote: »
    xuu wrote: »
    I think it would be better done if there was a small message underneath the lifeform saying [Not enough space], because being unable to open up the evolve menu would be pretty frustrating just because you can't fit an Onos in that exact spot.

    I understand what you are saying but I actually prefer Rusty's original suggestion of having the menu outright not open and an error sound and message presented if there isn't enough space. It needs to be direct and obvious. This would be a huge improvement to the evolve system and help new players also.

    I'd rather not lose a lot of good evolution spots just because an inexperienced player thought he could evolve into something that clearly wouldn't fit in that specific area.

    I don't understand your reply?

    My suggestion was that if there wasn't enough space, the menu wouldn't open and would instead give the player feedback on why. If there is space to evolve then the menu opens as per normal.

    Define "enough space." Are you referring to when you want to evolve into a higher lifeform but cannot due to not having enough space around you? If so, would this change prevent players from evolving trait upgrades or to other small lifeforms in narrow spots of the map such as vents or in a corner simply because not all lifeforms would fit in that exact spot?
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,248 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    This is 100%, one of the most clunkiest mechanics possible, to evolve as gorge in a vent it goes like this;-

    Move to middle.
    Press B
    Select Gorge
    Select Upgrades
    Fail.
    Adjust position
    Press B
    Select Gorge
    Select Upgrades
    Fail.
    Adjust position AGAIN
    Press B
    Select Gorge
    Select Upgrades
    FAIL.

    And YES, already aware of holding CTRL before you evolve gives you a better chance of evolving because you don't cling to surfaces, still doesn't improve this clunky mechanic.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    ydyRustyAurOn2
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,248 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    On a more serious note, why not have a similar interface comparable to how Gorgie places eggs/hydras/clogs/tunnels. But in this case an Egg model, showing green/red for when you can place it, during which you select your evolutions and once done instantly hop into your egg?

    Would also solve the exit teleport issue which sometimes happens...

    OMG Kouji you read my mind, I was thinking exactly this, this solution is perfect! @remi you need to jump all over this idea. Like seriously.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    Kouji_San
  • GameOverGameOver Germany Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21700Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 146 Fully active user
    In Natural Selection (1), I binded keys to evolve to a different lifeforms.
    This is what I prefer. A simple shortcut. Just spam it until you evolve.

    Koouji, your idea is good, if you're able to bind a shortcut to evolve to a specific lifeform. Imho, the gorge building options also lack shortcuts.
    I'm playing an ego shooter. No time to mess with menus. Press key -> Evolve -> ...
    Kouji_San
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,248 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    GameOver wrote: »
    In Natural Selection (1), I binded keys to evolve to a different lifeforms.
    This is what I prefer. A simple shortcut. Just spam it until you evolve.

    Koouji, your idea is good, if you're able to bind a shortcut to evolve to a specific lifeform. Imho, the gorge building options also lack shortcuts.
    I'm playing an ego shooter. No time to mess with menus. Press key -> Evolve -> ...

    This change would add, litterally miliseconds, hardly time consuming. You would waste more time trying to find a spot to evolve to, fail then trying to evolve again. If anything this would SAVE time.

    P.S. Asking rookies and veterans to bind keys is lazy and half assed. Gaming should be convenient and simple, that would not be convenient or simple.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    Kouji_San
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited May 2016
    @GameOver NS entity list and binding system were legendary in any case. NS2 can learn a lot from it's pappy, but in terms of accessibility and feedback... This would be instantly visible compared to the "you cannot evolve here for reasons" :D

    Doesn't change the fact that binds are still a good thing imho in addition...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • GameOverGameOver Germany Join Date: 2003-10-15 Member: 21700Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 146 Fully active user
    All I wanted to say is, with shortcuts it would work (for me) with the current system.

    Combine shortcuts with Kouij's idea and this is great for everyone. It's like doing in right in the first place. How it should have been. Perfect.
    Asking rookies and veterans to bind keys is lazy and half assed.
    @Yojimbo Call Medpack is pre-binded, so this could also be. Or do you use (or anyone you know) use the call-out menu to request a medpack?
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation Posts: 1,479 Advanced user
    Also, whatever patch some odd patches ago was release that "fixed" eggs not moving to random places after, didn't fix that. Every egg is still a gamble.

    Less so with nutrient mist as it is today, to be fair.
    mattji104
  • Solikos85Solikos85 USA Join Date: 2016-06-08 Member: 218265Members Posts: 1
    Frozen wrote: »
    Also, whatever patch some odd patches ago was release that "fixed" eggs not moving to random places after, didn't fix that. Every egg is still a gamble.

    Less so with nutrient mist as it is today, to be fair.

    This.
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 387 Advanced user
    Nevertheless making lifeforms and Upgrades bindable was extremely comfortable in ns1... I really miss this function... for all upgrades I and Lifeforms I used my full numpad... in my opinion it's really weak that ns2 is still not configurable as ns1 was - even though I've seen lots of people who complained about it...
    ydy
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