Those who whine about not having enough Oxygen...

CoranthCoranth Members Join Date: 2015-06-02 Member: 205160Posts: 719 Advanced user
... can stop whining; "passive" tanks are going to be added back in. From the Trello:

"As per latest discussion with Charlie and Obraxis: The oxygen tanks in the inventory should still add to the total oxygen available to the player. So both the tank in the equipment slot AND the "passive" tanks in the inventory should count.

The reason is simple: we want to make the life easier for those players who, for whatever reason, don't want to worry about oxygen so much.

The "excuse" why something passive in the inventory comes with some active effect is that there would be automatic swapping of tanks going on when the equipped tank is empty. Technically we don't really swap the tanks though. We just count the total oxygen and be done with it."


Congrats, people, it gets easier for you, now. Some of the people here, I swear...

"Yes, less Oxygen, make it harder!"

"But I dun' want less Oxygen; I hate it!"

"But I want more realism!"

"It's too hard, make it easier!"


...........

Head Dev1: "Put it in!"
Head Dev2: "Change it back, they don't like it..."
Head Dev1: "Yes they do, put it back in!"
Head Dev 2: "Naw, get rid of it..."
Head Dev 1:...

Other Devs, slowly going bald from stress: "We're working... as fast.... as we can!"
IntrepidHFrraksurredMr357TheJewelOfJoolTotallyLemonHYBRID1313LeonDOGEech0gh0st0x6A7232matijas_05ShuttleBug
«1

Comments

  • ChaosKnight626ChaosKnight626 MinnesotaMembers Join Date: 2015-08-05 Member: 206783Posts: 434 Advanced user
    Coranth wrote: »
    Head Dev1: "Put it in!"
    Head Dev2: "Change it back, they don't like it..."
    Head Dev1: "Yes they do, put it back in!"
    Head Dev 2: "Naw, get rid of it..."
    Head Dev 1:...

    Other Devs, slowly going bald from stress: "We're working... as fast.... as we can!"

    This made me laugh, you get a cookie
    Tmart94Cynical_Scrub0x6A7232Sam_Starfall
  • EpicIan60142EpicIan60142 IllinoisMembers Join Date: 2015-08-18 Member: 207263Posts: 45 Advanced user
    Coranth wrote: »
    Head Dev1: "Put it in!"
    Head Dev2: "Change it back, they don't like it..."
    Head Dev1: "Yes they do, put it back in!"
    Head Dev 2: "Naw, get rid of it..."
    Head Dev 1:...

    Other Devs, slowly going bald from stress: "We're working... as fast.... as we can!"

    This made me laugh, you get a cookie

    Ditto XD
    "Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon" -Paul Brandt
    Tmart94xColdFireRubyx
  • Calarand77Calarand77 lurking in general forumsMembers Join Date: 2016-01-22 Member: 211786Posts: 324 Advanced user
    Yep, I needed that laugh today.

    urpmqdguu5rv.png

    Thanks, @Coranth.
  • CoranthCoranth Members Join Date: 2015-06-02 Member: 205160Posts: 719 Advanced user
    Mmm, yummy... *munch* *munch* *munch*
  • After_MidnightAfter_Midnight Members Join Date: 2016-04-17 Member: 215890Posts: 116 Advanced user
    Hi,
    I'm not think it is easier or harder. Its add the free decision of the player back to handle speed vs inventory vs oxygen.
    TotallyLemonJacaraArthurDent
  • iSmartManiSmartMan Members Join Date: 2016-04-17 Member: 215884Posts: 36 Advanced user
    Come on, can't we compromise by only letting inventory tanks with a specific modification contribute to your total oxygen?
    Tarkannen
  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depthsMembers Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Posts: 1,005 Advanced user
    iSmartMan wrote: »
    Come on, can't we compromise by only letting inventory tanks with a specific modification contribute to your total oxygen?
    Why?

    My biggest question at this point is whether the reversion to inventory tanks means we'll also go back the old construction cost & capacity, or we'll keep the new cost & capacity?
    “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
    ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
    TotallyLemon
  • zetachronzetachron GermanyMembers Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    Coranth wrote: »
    ...

    Head Dev1: "Put it in!"
    Head Dev2: "Change it back, they don't like it..."
    Head Dev1: "Yes they do, put it back in!"
    Head Dev 2: "Naw, get rid of it..."
    Head Dev 1:...

    Other Devs, slowly going bald from stress: "We're working... as fast.... as we can!"

    No, unfortunately, it was more like this (see Trello card 1, Trello card 2):

    Jonas Grohmann: "Hmm, so reading this it's not entirely clear to me whether that means tanks which are NOT equipped but carried in the inventory will still count. While I don't "like" passive inventory items to have active effects I do think we should keep them working to accommodate for players who are not very skilled and don't want to worry about oxygen so much. So I'd suggest the paperdoll slot works in addition to the inventory tanks. @charliecleveland are you okay with that?"

    Charlie Cleveland: "@jonasgrohmann Ah - nope. Tanks in your inventory which aren't equipped do nothing."

    ... some time later after forum discussions ...

    "As per latest discussion with Charlie and Obraxis: The oxygen tanks in the inventory should still add to the total oxygen available to the player. So both the tank in the equipment slot AND the "passive" tanks in the inventory should count.

    The reason is simple: we want to make the life easier for those players who, for whatever reason, don't want to worry about oxygen so much.

    The "excuse" why something passive in the inventory comes with some active effect is that there would be automatic swapping of tanks going on when the equipped tank is empty. Technically we don't really swap the tanks though. We just count the total oxygen and be done with it."

    and Jonas Grohmann put them back in. So the story is more like:


    Dev: "I'll allow passive, makes sense for weaker players."

    Head: "Nope."

    Forum Dev: "The people get panic."

    Head: "For whatever reason ... okay, I give up."

    Dev: "I'll change it back to using passive."



    I'm sorry to correct it. But that's how you can see it happened on Trello.
    0x6A7232ShuttleBug
  • AvimimusAvimimus Members Join Date: 2016-03-28 Member: 214968Posts: 402 Advanced user
    What would be really nice is to have variable difficulty settings.

    I've done a calculation and I'd much prefer if plants grew and fish hatched at 1/50 of the current rate (yes, fifty times slower). This would force me to invest in entire farms rather than a single fruit tree!!

    Similarly, I'd prefer if ships took about twice the collision damage, and the Cyclops could manufacture a smaller variety of goods compared to what bases can do.

    Most of these are constants - so it should be fairly easy to add in difficulty levels.
    zetachron
  • zetachronzetachron GermanyMembers Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    Avimimus wrote: »
    What would be really nice is to have variable difficulty settings.

    I've done a calculation and I'd much prefer if plants grew and fish hatched at 1/50 of the current rate (yes, fifty times slower). This would force me to invest in entire farms rather than a single fruit tree!!

    Similarly, I'd prefer if ships took about twice the collision damage, and the Cyclops could manufacture a smaller variety of goods compared to what bases can do.

    Most of these are constants - so it should be fairly easy to add in difficulty levels.

    Yes, if the devs listen. We could enjoy several settings:
    • O2: no drain, beginners drain and passive tanks, survival drain and paper doll, nitrogen hardcore
    • Food/Water: no need, relaxed tourism needs, challenging survival rates, slow farming needs water & energy
    • Health/Predators: no damage, fast regeneration and lazy predators, medkits and roaming predators, permadeath and strategic predators
    • Power: no need, regenerates fast, slow power regeneration, power maintenance
    • Resources: no need, visible and pickable, hidden and cutable, buried and tools needed for extraction

    That's almost the 4 mode settings for each of the primal functions: Creative-Freedom-Survival-Hardcore
    DomongartArthurDentTarkannen
  • ElCabongElCabong Houston, TxMembers Join Date: 2016-01-23 Member: 211851Posts: 53 Fully active user
    You got to have the extra oxygen just to get into some of them wrecks
    ArthurDentJacke
  • zetachronzetachron GermanyMembers Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    ElCabong wrote: »
    You got to have the extra oxygen just to get into some of them wrecks

    No, you only need about 100sec air for all wrecks if you plan your expeditions carefully.
    Tarkannen
  • starkaosstarkaos Members Join Date: 2016-03-31 Member: 215139Posts: 501 Advanced user
    zetachron wrote: »
    ElCabong wrote: »
    You got to have the extra oxygen just to get into some of them wrecks

    No, you only need about 100sec air for all wrecks if you plan your expeditions carefully.

    Assuming that you don't get lost in a wreck or lose track of time dealing with a sealed door. Also, preparation usually goes out the window when dealing with hostile creatures.
  • After_MidnightAfter_Midnight Members Join Date: 2016-04-17 Member: 215890Posts: 116 Advanced user
    zetachron wrote: »
    ElCabong wrote: »
    You got to have the extra oxygen just to get into some of them wrecks

    No, you only need about 100sec air for all wrecks if you plan your expeditions carefully.

    Not every player want to hunt through wrecks in 1.5 minutes. It have nothing to do with "plan your expeditions carefully". Its just an other kind of playing and exploring.
  • After_MidnightAfter_Midnight Members Join Date: 2016-04-17 Member: 215890Posts: 116 Advanced user
    zetachron wrote: »
    I think we are different people with different needs and need different mode settings, so each can enjoy his own playstyle.

    this!

    Tarkannen
  • DinkelsenDinkelsen GrazMembers Join Date: 2015-10-05 Member: 208309Posts: 155 Advanced user
    Different people have different perceptions regarding enjoyment. While something may be possible, it might not be enjoyable. And what drives us to play games if not the promise of enjoyment?
    Jacke
  • CoranthCoranth Members Join Date: 2015-06-02 Member: 205160Posts: 719 Advanced user
    The Sea Glide and the Air Bladder exist for a reason. With them, you can dive to decent depths without a pack full of tanks. So...

    1. Sea Glide + Air Bladder. Use the Sea Glide to descend... fast.; you don't 'lose' much Oxygen in the initial dive.

    2. Once you're down as far as you need to go, put Sea Glide away, switch to Swim Charge fins and equip Flashlight for initial explore.

    3. Upon approach to sealed door, swap to Laser Cutter.

    4. At half-oxygen, or a little less - depending on how far you want to 'push it', get out of wreck via Sea Glide than once in open water use Sea Glide or Air Bladder to assist with ascent to surface.

    5. Repeat
    Tarkannen
  • After_MidnightAfter_Midnight Members Join Date: 2016-04-17 Member: 215890Posts: 116 Advanced user
    Coranth wrote: »
    The Sea Glide and the Air Bladder exist for a reason. With them, you can dive to decent depths without a pack full of tanks. So...

    1. Sea Glide + Air Bladder. Use the Sea Glide to descend... fast.; you don't 'lose' much Oxygen in the initial dive.

    2. Once you're down as far as you need to go, put Sea Glide away, switch to Swim Charge fins and equip Flashlight for initial explore.

    3. Upon approach to sealed door, swap to Laser Cutter.

    4. At half-oxygen, or a little less - depending on how far you want to 'push it', get out of wreck via Sea Glide than once in open water use Sea Glide or Air Bladder to assist with ascent to surface.

    5. Repeat

    Just your way....
    Bisley19
  • CoranthCoranth Members Join Date: 2015-06-02 Member: 205160Posts: 719 Advanced user
    Eh, whatever...
  • MyrmMyrm SwedenMembers Join Date: 2015-08-16 Member: 207210Posts: 1,052 Advanced user
    Just your way....

    A vary good way, and one in going to try myself. Thanks Coranth. :smile:

  • After_MidnightAfter_Midnight Members Join Date: 2016-04-17 Member: 215890Posts: 116 Advanced user
    Dinkelsen wrote: »
    Coranth wrote: »
    The Sea Glide and the Air Bladder exist for a reason. [...]

    I know. I am not stupid. I COULD use the items you listed and the method you described to go wreck diving, but I simply DON'T WANT to.

    Why? Let me explain.

    When you play the game I suspect you play within the "game context" which means you see the rules and the game mechanics and develop strategies to overcome obstacles set in your way by the game developers. The avatar is simply another piece of game mechanics. There is absolutely nothing wrong or bad or inferior to this. It is simply a way to play. A lot of very succesful professional gemers use this context, as the ability to blend away assumption made by cross referencing game content to the real life experience might hinder one to create really succesful strategies.

    Now I play the game in its "immersion context" where the avatar is no simple game mechanic, but more an extension of myself, the center piece here being the "experience". And this part of myself can access my - small but still existing - knowledge of diving for instance. Now equipping the Air Bladder will save me in Subnautica, but in real diving the pressure difference would simply kill me. (Recommended ascend rates are in the magnitude of 10-20m per minute) I know that there is no decompression sickness or nitrogen narcosis in the game mechanics by they exist in my head, and that is why I do not want to use an Air Bladder.

    Now if you reread my posts in the other thread, first of all, I wasn't "whining" and to be honest I feel offended by that word and the general tone of your original post. I was complaining about the lack of CHOICE. I was ready to sacrifice half of my inventory for the luxury of not having to fear drowning and I would do it again. But I can't - or at least at the moment I can't, I don't know if the revertion of the change is already live - I had to use ONE tank without any possibilities of customizability. And I didn't want unlimited free oxygen, all I wanted was 50% or 100% more oxygen.

    I do not want to "convert" you to my style of play, I simply want you to understand me, understand that there are different ways of viewing the same thing. While still different, no singe view is better or worse, they remain simply different.

    Regards, Dinkelsen
    Fantastic post mate. Thanks a lot for this.
  • RainstormRainstorm Montreal (Quebec)Members Join Date: 2015-12-15 Member: 210003Posts: 1,050 Advanced user
    i also agree with @Dinkelsen that game experience varies GREATLY from person to person. I also dont use some of the game tools offered to me simply because i find them useless to me personally (like the dive reel for example) or maybe i just dont like the concept either. Not useless in the game in general but useless to me in the way i like to play the game.

    After_Midnight
  • zetachronzetachron GermanyMembers Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    I tend to take the greater or deeper wrecks a bit more seriously and set up a kind of mobile operation base near them, from where I start my wreck expeditions. That might be a simple farming bed with purple brain corals near or the seamoth once it gets available. Or I simulate saturation diving and setting up a small operation habitat near the wreck.

    From my operation base near the wreck I like to feel the pressure of time and danger, so I usually take 1 tank with me and my tools. I take my time to explore and map the wreck and set up light sources to not get lost. Until I finally get to the deepest chambers. That's many dives and not 1 long one.

    Now all I miss is a proper value distribution of fragments inside the wreck, so that when I finally get to the most unreachable chamber I would find a really valuable and rare fragment or other item (maybe a rare egg?). And of course predators properly guarding their treasures. Like a biter swarm inside hoarding their eggs or maybe an eel trapped inside a sealed treasure chamber. I also miss some events that endanger me. Like suddenly some machines come to live again and a current generator or some reactivated electric power prevents you exiting the same way you came.

    Ah, but I only dream, because all this isn't in the game. No dangerous creatures carefully placed and most fragments still to be found not so deep inside the wreck, while the deep parts don't hold that valuable secrets. And of course no special thrilling events. So I hope the devs will do better in the future and one day it might happen that wreck exploration gets a real thrilling experience.

    Oh, and I'd really love to have at least 1 giant ancient wreck in the deepest depths of either Lost River, the Lava Zones or even deeper Alien Biomes (if they don't get cut out of the game). A really strange wreck and multileveled with shaft mazes. Far smaller than the Aurora, but far bigger than the wreck parts seen so far.
  • yomamayomama On the freewayMembers Join Date: 2016-04-17 Member: 215861Posts: 302 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    +1 to both arguments. I like that they re-included passive air, so I can have that option. How I play depends entirely on what I'm feeling that day, keep multiple games going for that reason. I'm going to try the air bladder thing, and love zetachron's ideas. Sometimes I'm hardcore and sometimes I just wanna wimp out and swim around for a bit. I live in a big rig truck and this is my escape, im going to do it however I need to as I live in a space the size of your bathroom. It follows that I am really excited about vr... :-P
    ArthurDent
  • RainstormRainstorm Montreal (Quebec)Members Join Date: 2015-12-15 Member: 210003Posts: 1,050 Advanced user
    zetachron wrote: »
    I tend to take the greater or deeper wrecks a bit more seriously and set up a kind of mobile operation base near them, from where I start my wreck expeditions. That might be a simple farming bed with purple brain corals near or the seamoth once it gets available. Or I simulate saturation diving and setting up a small operation habitat near the wreck.

    Most of the time for the deeper wrecks i do that too. I set up one foundation near it with one X corridor (with hatch of course) one floor locker in it plus a fabricator and usually a bio-reactor for just enough power for a few fab recipes but mostly for being able to have oxygen in the mini base (as solar panels usually dont work well past 150m deep).

    No need to have more than that. put a few O2 tanks in the locker, fabricator is near for handy cooked fish and airsack water and voila, yer set for intense exploration :smiley:

  • DefectiveDelfinDefectiveDelfin Planet earthMembers Join Date: 2015-07-19 Member: 206262Posts: 115 Fully active user
    Rainstorm wrote: »
    zetachron wrote: »
    I tend to take the greater or deeper wrecks a bit more seriously and set up a kind of mobile operation base near them, from where I start my wreck expeditions. That might be a simple farming bed with purple brain corals near or the seamoth once it gets available. Or I simulate saturation diving and setting up a small operation habitat near the wreck.

    Most of the time for the deeper wrecks i do that too. I set up one foundation near it with one X corridor (with hatch of course) one floor locker in it plus a fabricator and usually a bio-reactor for just enough power for a few fab recipes but mostly for being able to have oxygen in the mini base (as solar panels usually dont work well past 150m deep).

    No need to have more than that. put a few O2 tanks in the locker, fabricator is near for handy cooked fish and airsack water and voila, yer set for intense exploration :smiley:

    Most people use their seamoths for O2 instead of building bases XD

    Although with the new power and O2 system rework,i can see this "diving bell" base no longer working.Maybe the pipes will finally see some use after this?They are practically useless at the moment and are only there for beginners to use it once,then forget about it for the rest of the game.I mean the pipes could work as a quick source of O2 and perhaps even a mobile one that you can drag along with you if needed?
    I'm actually DefectivePeeper.I just lost my account C;
  • zetachronzetachron GermanyMembers Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Posts: 1,189 Advanced user
    Most people use their seamoths for O2 instead of building bases XD

    Although with the new power and O2 system rework,i can see this "diving bell" base no longer working.Maybe the pipes will finally see some use after this?They are practically useless at the moment and are only there for beginners to use it once,then forget about it for the rest of the game.I mean the pipes could work as a quick source of O2 and perhaps even a mobile one that you can drag along with you if needed?

    With the builder and our supersized inventory we can simply take large things like the moonpool (9 inventory objects) with us, although it's not really mobile. You just need a container to store the inventory for a small mobile habitat (moonpool, scanner room, fabricator, glass container, reactor*[the new will need more items]). Not too much inventory space. In reality we'd have a mobile habitat base. In the game it's simulated with the builder.
  • ChimpXChimpX Members Join Date: 2015-07-25 Member: 206391Posts: 36 Advanced user
    It seems to me that having to manually switch out air tanks in your inventory would be a perfect addition to Hardcore mode.

    Having inventory tanks passively contributing to total O2 is probably the way most "non-immersion" or non Hardcore players would want it to be, and so suits default Survival mode.
    DefectiveDelfinsabin77LeonDOGE
Sign In or Register to comment.