Vanilla Draft Tournament(Hosted by ensl.org)

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Comments

  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    More tournaments wouldn't be a bad thing. Even if there was different type of tournaments to appeal to more of the community. You could do a last stand tournament, a lot of options.
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Sgt_Sass wrote: »
    I heard about a vanilla tournament on a random server's voice comms and got all excited - maybe this would be my opportunity to give the competitive scene in this game a try. Then I come here and get all my hopes and dreams destroyed. Bummertown, USA.

    Such a cute gorge avatar and a sad post.. ; ( there will be other tournies.
  • Sgt_SassSgt_Sass Join Date: 2016-02-13 Member: 213004Members
    A Last Stand tournament would be fun! I might end up playing the 'wait and watch' game with these tournaments though, dat toxicity is pretty intense.
  • TyrwingTyrwing Sweden Join Date: 2015-11-23 Member: 209435Members
    Sgt_Sass wrote: »
    I heard about a vanilla tournament on a random server's voice comms and got all excited - maybe this would be my opportunity to give the competitive scene in this game a try. Then I come here and get all my hopes and dreams destroyed. Bummertown, USA.

    If you are interested there are draft tournaments every now and then @ ensl.org.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Sgt_Sass wrote: »
    A Last Stand tournament would be fun! I might end up playing the 'wait and watch' game with these tournaments though, dat toxicity is pretty intense.

    Currently the spectator system is... A bit lacking, as in completely lacking :D
  • Sgt_SassSgt_Sass Join Date: 2016-02-13 Member: 213004Members
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    Sgt_Sass wrote: »
    A Last Stand tournament would be fun! I might end up playing the 'wait and watch' game with these tournaments though, dat toxicity is pretty intense.

    That was a different type of tournament where some people might have not been in a positive ns2 mood to start it. Normally, the tournaments seem to be about teams trying to win and have fun. I think the tournament yesterday was more about raising awareness with people that don't love playing without the mods that they think are integral to the game. If you had a vanilla tournament just made of people on certain pub servers, could work better. I think the tournament settings have to appeal to the players in the tournament, which wasn't the case yesterday.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Sgt_Sass wrote: »
    I heard about a vanilla tournament on a random server's voice comms and got all excited - maybe this would be my opportunity to give the competitive scene in this game a try. Then I come here and get all my hopes and dreams destroyed. Bummertown, USA.

    You would be more interested in the newcomer tournaments they do. It is a good way to try out more organized play.
  • YaluzanYaluzan Join Date: 2013-07-30 Member: 186474Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester
    I'll make sure to get events up and running until we can actually start the Seasons again. will all be announced on ensl.org and in a new topic on these forums when i start planning them.
  • Sgt_SassSgt_Sass Join Date: 2016-02-13 Member: 213004Members
    Cool beans, thanks!
  • JezisheckJezisheck Czech Republic Join Date: 2016-02-28 Member: 213572Members
    edited March 2016
    Hello guys! I wrote a note to write down some feedback on this tournament and now I just got to it, so here it goes:

    ... it was so long noone would read it, as what I wrote was kind of a story. List of observations and opinions will do better:
    1. Competitive players are whining too much about missing mods.
    2. Normal players miss the mods too but are more cool about it.
    3. The strike is going on for too long. UWE has got the message and now it is time for mod devs to stop being stubborn.
    4. Game is playable without mods but I miss this:
      1. Ability to have alien vision on by default
      2. Weapon inventory shown constanty, including ammo counts.
      3. Ability to turn off ambient sounds as that aids in listening for footsteps.
      4. Option to have separate mouse sensitivity for marines and aliens.
      5. Option to have separate FOV for marines and aliens.
    5. The whole NS2+ mod should be integrated to vanilla. People generally like customization options and choices.
    6. There should be pause command/tournament mode for server operators in vanilla.
    7. The game needs some sort of demo-recording system like CS:GO has. For me to be able to watch it and learn from my mistakes. There is not enough time and information for me to figure out my mistakes during a fast gameplay.

    I may add stuff to that list when I think of more.
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Competitive players are whining too much about missing mods.

    i don't think it's exactly fair for you to play one or two maps (please correct me if you have more experience) in a competitive format and pretend you have such clarity over its balance.

    the mods were written for a reason. somebody or a group of people must have been frustrated with the balance in 6v6 enough to write a mod. the fact the mod was adopted by the only league in the game means that it was and is needed.
  • simbasimba Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151628Members
    Jezisheck wrote: »
    Hello guys! I wrote a note to write down some feedback on this tournament and now I just got to it, so here it goes:

    ... it was so long noone would read it, as what I wrote was kind of a story. List of observations and opinions will do better:
    1. Competitive players are whining too much about missing mods.
    2. Normal players miss the mods too but are more cool about it.
    3. The strike is going on for too long. UWE has got the message and now it is time for mod devs to stop being stubborn.
    4. Game is playable without mods but I miss this:
      1. Ability to have alien vision on by default
      2. Weapon inventory shown constanty, including ammo counts.
      3. Ability to turn off ambient sounds as that aids in listening for footsteps.
      4. Option to have separate mouse sensitivity for marines and aliens.
      5. Option to have separate FOV for marines and aliens.
    5. The whole NS2+ mod should be integrated to vanilla. People generally like customization options and choices.
    6. There should be pause command/tournament mode for server operators in vanilla.
    7. The game needs some sort of demo-recording system like CS:GO has. For me to be able to watch it and learn from my mistakes. There is not enough time and information for me to figure out my mistakes during a fast gameplay.

    I may add stuff to that list when I think of more.

    Why should the makers of those mods satisfy your needs and desires for those features? Why couldn't it be one of UWE's priorities, instead of a vast plethora of undemanded features and tweaks?
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    simba wrote: »
    Jezisheck wrote: »
    Hello guys! I wrote a note to write down some feedback on this tournament and now I just got to it, so here it goes:

    ... it was so long noone would read it, as what I wrote was kind of a story. List of observations and opinions will do better:
    1. Competitive players are whining too much about missing mods.
    2. Normal players miss the mods too but are more cool about it.
    3. The strike is going on for too long. UWE has got the message and now it is time for mod devs to stop being stubborn.
    4. Game is playable without mods but I miss this:
      1. Ability to have alien vision on by default
      2. Weapon inventory shown constanty, including ammo counts.
      3. Ability to turn off ambient sounds as that aids in listening for footsteps.
      4. Option to have separate mouse sensitivity for marines and aliens.
      5. Option to have separate FOV for marines and aliens.
    5. The whole NS2+ mod should be integrated to vanilla. People generally like customization options and choices.
    6. There should be pause command/tournament mode for server operators in vanilla.
    7. The game needs some sort of demo-recording system like CS:GO has. For me to be able to watch it and learn from my mistakes. There is not enough time and information for me to figure out my mistakes during a fast gameplay.

    I may add stuff to that list when I think of more.

    Why should the makers of those mods satisfy your needs and desires for those features? Why couldn't it be one of UWE's priorities, instead of a vast plethora of undemanded features and tweaks?

    Isnt that what he is saying?
  • simbasimba Join Date: 2012-05-06 Member: 151628Members
    CCTEE wrote: »
    simba wrote: »
    Jezisheck wrote: »
    Hello guys! I wrote a note to write down some feedback on this tournament and now I just got to it, so here it goes:

    ... it was so long noone would read it, as what I wrote was kind of a story. List of observations and opinions will do better:
    1. Competitive players are whining too much about missing mods.
    2. Normal players miss the mods too but are more cool about it.
    3. The strike is going on for too long. UWE has got the message and now it is time for mod devs to stop being stubborn.
    4. Game is playable without mods but I miss this:
      1. Ability to have alien vision on by default
      2. Weapon inventory shown constanty, including ammo counts.
      3. Ability to turn off ambient sounds as that aids in listening for footsteps.
      4. Option to have separate mouse sensitivity for marines and aliens.
      5. Option to have separate FOV for marines and aliens.
    5. The whole NS2+ mod should be integrated to vanilla. People generally like customization options and choices.
    6. There should be pause command/tournament mode for server operators in vanilla.
    7. The game needs some sort of demo-recording system like CS:GO has. For me to be able to watch it and learn from my mistakes. There is not enough time and information for me to figure out my mistakes during a fast gameplay.

    I may add stuff to that list when I think of more.

    Why should the makers of those mods satisfy your needs and desires for those features? Why couldn't it be one of UWE's priorities, instead of a vast plethora of undemanded features and tweaks?

    Isnt that what he is saying?

    I should have narrowed down what I quoted, but I was responding to his item that says it's time for the modders to stop being stubborn.
  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I've been around for NS2 development for a few years and I can tell you with something close to certainty that the entirety of NS2+ will NEVER be integrated into vanilla for a simple reason:

    UWE doesn't want their playerbase to be able to disable animations, effects, and other assets they spent a very long time creating. This is the way it has always been.

    NS2, from what I've seen, was never designed to be a Comp game, it was designed to be a high-skill yet casual shooter.

    Many of the most sought after features of NS2+ disable much of the work that UWE put into the game, calling them "vision obscuring". Even if they are, they are meant to be there, and you cannot ask a dev to willingly exclude the parts of their work and make the game what they want it to be so that players can have either a competitive advantage with a plain game, or a competitive disadvantage and a pretty game.

    Now, I'm all for the addition of a lot of the QoL changes, like autopickup of better guns, and these should definitely be included as options, but anything that gives a player an advantage by disabling visuals wont ever be in the Vanilla game, it just wasn't designed to be played without the eye candy.

    2 cents from a pub player
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Benson wrote: »
    I've been around for NS2 development for a few years and I can tell you with something close to certainty that the entirety of NS2+ will NEVER be integrated into vanilla for a simple reason:

    UWE doesn't want their playerbase to be able to disable animations, effects, and other assets they spent a very long time creating. This is the way it has always been.

    NS2, from what I've seen, was never designed to be a Comp game, it was designed to be a high-skill yet casual shooter.

    Many of the most sought after features of NS2+ disable much of the work that UWE put into the game, calling them "vision obscuring". Even if they are, they are meant to be there, and you cannot ask a dev to willingly exclude the parts of their work and make the game what they want it to be so that players can have either a competitive advantage with a plain game, or a competitive disadvantage and a pretty game.

    Now, I'm all for the addition of a lot of the QoL changes, like autopickup of better guns, and these should definitely be included as options, but anything that gives a player an advantage by disabling visuals wont ever be in the Vanilla game, it just wasn't designed to be played without the eye candy.

    2 cents from a pub player

    so, hubris.

    isn't it supposed to be gameplay first, graphics second?

    tell me, where exactly did performance fall in that evaluation too?
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members
    edited March 2016
    Benson wrote: »
    I've been around for NS2 development for a few years and I can tell you with something close to certainty that the entirety of NS2+ will NEVER be integrated into vanilla for a simple reason:

    UWE doesn't want their playerbase to be able to disable animations, effects, and other assets they spent a very long time creating. This is the way it has always been.

    NS2, from what I've seen, was never designed to be a Comp game, it was designed to be a high-skill yet casual shooter.

    Many of the most sought after features of NS2+ disable much of the work that UWE put into the game, calling them "vision obscuring". Even if they are, they are meant to be there, and you cannot ask a dev to willingly exclude the parts of their work and make the game what they want it to be so that players can have either a competitive advantage with a plain game, or a competitive disadvantage and a pretty game.

    Now, I'm all for the addition of a lot of the QoL changes, like autopickup of better guns, and these should definitely be included as options, but anything that gives a player an advantage by disabling visuals wont ever be in the Vanilla game, it just wasn't designed to be played without the eye candy.

    2 cents from a pub player

    I understand the point you're trying to make, but I think it's over the top. Tons of games allow you to limit the graphics and the game ends up looking like crap if you want high performance. This game included. I don't know the reason they haven't included ns2+ into the base game, but I don't agree with the save the beauty argument. At least I hope that isn't part of the decision making if the gameplay doesn't suffer/might improve with certain options and they exclude them for eye candy reasons. You can make this game ugly easily with normal options.

    Also, ns2+ is usually on almost every server in the game. So doesn't it become silly to try to stop certain options from being in the normal game when they are all available already? It would make more sense to have a mod that limits certain options or server side limit options for the few servers that want to stop people from changing things.

    NS2+ is normal NS2 in reality.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    Benson wrote: »
    I've been around for NS2 development for a few years and I can tell you with something close to certainty that the entirety of NS2+ will NEVER be integrated into vanilla for a simple reason:

    UWE doesn't want their playerbase to be able to disable animations, effects, and other assets they spent a very long time creating. This is the way it has always been.

    NS2, from what I've seen, was never designed to be a Comp game, it was designed to be a high-skill yet casual shooter.

    Many of the most sought after features of NS2+ disable much of the work that UWE put into the game, calling them "vision obscuring". Even if they are, they are meant to be there, and you cannot ask a dev to willingly exclude the parts of their work and make the game what they want it to be so that players can have either a competitive advantage with a plain game, or a competitive disadvantage and a pretty game.

    Now, I'm all for the addition of a lot of the QoL changes, like autopickup of better guns, and these should definitely be included as options, but anything that gives a player an advantage by disabling visuals wont ever be in the Vanilla game, it just wasn't designed to be played without the eye candy.

    2 cents from a pub player

    That whole lets make alien vision hideous so they will turn it on less often and look at the pretty maps worked out so well didn't it? But yes, that is probably the reason why NS2+ hasn't been more fully integrated.
  • BensonBenson Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited March 2016
    Hey, I'm not arguing one way or another, Just pointing out UWE's historical method of deciding what to do with the game.

    So long as disabling graphic elements doesn't provide an unfair benefit compared to players that keep them on, I don't have a problem with anything. If the only advantage given by disabling visuals is the player is more comfortable, then I don't see a problem, personally.

    and like @Aeglos said, there have been some things implemented for the sake of atmosphere and looks that flopped hard. Remember the old "High Quality Bubble" infestation?)

    As far as performance goes....well the biggest immediate boost to performance would be removing cysts and powernodes, but that also is not going to happen for the same reasons.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Benson wrote: »
    Hey, I'm not arguing one way or another, Just pointing out UWE's historical method of deciding what to do with the game.

    So long as disabling graphic elements doesn't provide an unfair benefit compared to players that keep them on, I don't have a problem with anything. If the only advantage given by disabling visuals is the player is more comfortable, then I don't see a problem, personally.

    and like @Aeglos said, there have been some things implemented for the sake of atmosphere and looks that flopped hard. Remember the old "High Quality Bubble" infestation?)

    As far as performance goes....well the biggest immediate boost to performance would be removing cysts and powernodes, but that also is not going to happen for the same reasons.



    ... yeah, but orange/white alien vision is literally still seared into my damn visual cortex.

    they made it eye-meltingly terrible, and rolled it out in a forced beta session.

    "play-test our shitty updates because we didn't factor in the time for the testing phase when planning on the rollout of this patch to steam."

    and slink into the corner and quietly allow people to change the fucking eyemelt back to something useful, without ever addressing a 80 page thread about how bad it was and how little we liked being used as playtesters.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I was quite lucky not to use alien vision at this point
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, Arizona Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Members, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    It had plenty of testing prior to being released. Yes, it was bad, but UWE didn't intend for Alien vision to be always on, as I'm sure you use it. It was meant specifically for dark rooms, of which it lights up, as an alien counterpart to the flashlight. Thats why it was changed later, but still isn't great for engagements in bright rooms.
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