I always hear "killing the mod this, killing the mod that...". You all know that the mod was broken before it went stand alone, right? The guys who made and updated the mod stopped updating it and left ns2 to go make another game.
Since everyone seems to have forgotten, I found some old threads:
Honestly I think it was doomed to fail from the start because a spinoff combat game was an idea that just didn't have much demand within the NS community. Being part of the same game as NS1 is what made the original Combat what it was - it was used all the time to fill servers for Classic. Separating it means leaving behind the community that prefers vanilla NS2, and there just aren't enough NS2 fans to support both games.
I always hear "killing the mod this, killing the mod that...". You all know that the mod was broken before it went stand alone, right? The guys who made and updated the mod stopped updating it and left ns2 to go make another game.
Since everyone seems to have forgotten, I found some old threads:
Yeah that's why someone updated the mod because they were working on the paid version, it was barely broken... you can still actually play the mod today with some slight modification and it's barely anything, don't know why people try and defend them for things that didn't happen, i'm pretty sure it was working before standalone was released but broken because they left so much time from when it was broken to release, it was technically sabotaged according to a couple of friends of mine who helped with lua and pting for ns2combat, that and anyone who played combat at the the time were wondering why there were 2-3 full combat servers at any one time suddenly there was 0 and no more updates on the combat mod page, that's sabotage and it wasn't because NS2 updated because i simply fixed the combat my on my own server, pretty easiliy.
Did you even read those threads? They had stopped working on it before they even got the offer to do the stand alone. And who are theses "friends" of yours that say the mod was sabotaged? I smell bull s**t. Let's see some proof. Haters gunna hate.
Did you even read those threads? They had stopped working on it before they even got the offer to do the stand alone. And who are theses "friends" of yours that say the mod was sabotaged? I smell bull s**t. Let's see some proof. Haters gunna hate.
Did you even read my post? i said that it stopped working before combat was released, i didn't say when...? and besides it wasn't that hard to fix if i remember correctly after that update someone made a combat fix and posted it to the workshop, but there was a few bugs with the menus in game and people weren't able to evolve but that was easily fixable (later realised) it's more like UWE updated the game then it broke a few things, people modding decided they were annoyed at it and stopped developing.
1. UWE constantly updates, breaking mods of all sorts
2. Modders decide they're going to stop updating it
3. Someone releases a fix on the workshop with a few things broken in game (makes it playable but buggy), no one decided to fix those things and servers suffered because it took so long, then then UWE updated NS2 again this time making it even more buggier because that bug from the fix wasn't fixed) yeah and i am not talking about the fix from 2015, there was one far earlier then that.
4. Modders decide they're going to use an older version of spark and release there own game, pretending like it's completely different from NS2 except it wasn't really, just more buggy, slower and had less performance including some workshop mods/models.
Now i don't care if you post threads where it's bias is slanted towards hating on UWE and hating on how fucked up the modding scene was back then, but anyone who was playing combat then was wondering why the combat mod just literally stopped development in NS2, it's funny how some mods like Siege which gets shat on publicly and throughout the modding community for stealing stuff and leaving the game half-broken seems to not realise that the game is easily fixable, even by one person, Kyle Abent made the game work from patch-patch why can't a whole team of modders, especially when he was using code from combat and actually even a working combat clone?
You can see the major problems start happening after they announce NS2 combat/xenoswarm team had formed.
I just don't have the patience for people trying to defend things which are clearly falsly a misrepresentation of what really happens, especially in history.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited February 2016
I don't need "proof" as my memory is good enough.. and your 4 points are pretty accurate as to what happened.
But those 4 points and the timeline does not somehow suggest "sabotage".
They gave up entirely on maintaining the mod.. and moved onto another engine to develop another game, which led to UWE contacting them.
I know for a fact that it happened in this order as I was the one who poked Hugh to contact the team, since they appeared to be moving on entirely.
So your sabotage narrative doesn't really fit well here - unless you are proposing that they sabotaged their mod constantly to justify leaving it to go develop a separate game on a separate engine - and then subsequently released their source code to their mods in hopes that "a few of the more active members of our passionate community or even UWE themselves will step up to the plate and keep the mods running, to add new content and to repair them as they break between updates."???...
All issues with standalone combat and the mod aside (and there is some truth there Iron), Combat would be a good 'Pregame' addition to vanilla NS2. While obviously UWE couldn't just rip the source from Combat standalone, I really do fail to see how the 'IP' could be withheld in any way. However, given everything that happened its probably best to design up some other mode to fill that role... Last Stand could have worked out well in the end.
@nizb0ag really have no idea what you're talking about do you? Just another butt hurt elitist who wanted someone else's hard work for free. As I understand it flg purchased the rights for the lmg/knife models from the original artist, but just to make sure since I don't just go on forums and speak outta my ass, I'm going to post this thread on combat's discord so one of the devs can set the record straight, not that it would convince you, since you seem to have already convinced yourself.
@nizb0ag really have no idea what you're talking about do you? Just another butt hurt elitist who wanted someone else's hard work for free. As I understand it flg purchased the rights for the lmg/knife models from the original artist, but just to make sure since I don't just go on forums and speak outta my ass, I'm going to post this thread on combat's discord so one of the devs can set the record straight, not that it would convince you, since you seem to have already convinced yourself.
They know.
Don't feed the trolls. Don't feed people that are close enough, either.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Trouble is too many people who weren't involved at the time have made up their own interpretation of what happened.
The FLG guys are amazing, and only every wanted to make games. Self-Entitled whiners will always drown out the truth though, because people find it easier to hate on someone if the world doesn't go exactly as they want it to.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
It's easier to destroy than to create, and since the human race is mostly lazy... Haters gonna hate? Hmm that made more sense than it should have, now I haz another sad
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
Alot of hard lessons where learned by UWE as a publisher, and FLG as developers.
There is no single point of failure, but alot of small mistakes, misunderstandings. And "3rd party"(<- diplomatic responce), that severly hurt the (limited)marketing efforts.
As for Intergrating NS2:C into NS2; UWE will not put money into making it a reality. And are generaly not interested, as it might split up the community (same as when combat was made for ns1)
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2016
Can of worms time hehehehehe
That splitting of the community card that has been pulled time and time again... I'm kinda edging towards the "does it really split up the community?" camp
Just have stand alone servers based on a certain game mode and see how it populates across the board. The issue with NS was that we could change the server game mode and either empty a server with combat orientated players, by choosing classic and vica versa. That is where the main issue was
I mean, right now we have an influx of new players, who play classic because there aren't really other options in terms of available and whitelisted servers for mods. This player influx isn't a very large amount, but it's noticeable. Now I'm sure most of the old school vets will always prefer classic mode regardless.
This fear (irrational?), is mostly present in this here community. I'm having a hard time finding another community with such an adversity vs new game modes. Is it because classic mode is simply not going to appeal to the masses of casual gamers out there? I mean NS(2) has always been a very niche game. But how come we have this counterproductive attitude towards new game modes...
If we step back and look at it from an outsider perspective... It comes across as very weird, new game modes based on the main game are frowned upon. I know we all want classic mode to appeal to more players and the new retention elements have shown to help. But the player base hasn't really grown all that much TBH. I know I know, baby steps to get it to grow.
But from an unbiased point of view, it looks very silly that new game modes, Combat especially, are actively being denied because "it would split up the community". While most other popular games have lots of game modes to choose from...
You can bet your ass, people will always play what they prefer, be it Combat/Last stand/Classic/Faded/Siege/Skulks with Shotguns/Marines vs Marines/NS2Large. Why are we so adamant and elitist, in trying to artificially force people to play our preferred game mode. You can't force people, that shit will never fly, they will either play or leave.
Instead we should provide options with more polished game modes, making the game more content rich and enticing. We should let the players decide. Besides the vets will always prefer classic and if the player base grows (mostly because of new game modes), we will eventually also see a rise in classic gamers... Let's face it dude and dude-ettes, we are a rare breed that prefer deeper games. Heck even I am leaning more and more towards easier to step into and carefree games as well, due to my bucket of time issues. Something I never thought would happen, while still liking harder modes as well...
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
tbh classic is NOT appealing to older players in alot of ways because the experience of playing classic with inexperienced players is nauseating most of the time
@Ironhorse yeah i don't know man, i think it's pretty self explanatory, maybe it wasn't sabotage but it sure as damn well looked like it and i didn't base it off my own upset at it turning out the way it day, from day 1 it was like that.
@nizb0ag really have no idea what you're talking about do you? Just another butt hurt elitist who wanted someone else's hard work for free. As I understand it flg purchased the rights for the lmg/knife models from the original artist, but just to make sure since I don't just go on forums and speak outta my ass, I'm going to post this thread on combat's discord so one of the devs can set the record straight, not that it would convince you, since you seem to have already convinced yourself.
So they purchased it from the original NS1 modeler who made the LMG and Knife that sure is nice isn't it, got a citation for that? it's pretty much a replica actually that and Didn't ice create the LMG/Knife for NS2 then you used it in NS2Combat so technically he wasn't the original artist due to contracts with UWE? i mean the gun is pretty much a copy of a nailgun from various games even if you wanna put it that far, but it's NS1 LMG at the end of the day, i even saw somewhere there "for UWE, gift for community" and this is prior to release of combat right? some of that LMG stuff is from 2012/2013 before FLG came into the scene. Which is my point of "workshop mods and maps"
I surely don't know what i am talking about right?
I'd just like to see that combat is integrated back into NS universe where it should have been from the start(not necessarily talking about FLG version of combat, but that would be alright, with alot of tweaks), i mean there's obviously some disconnect between FLG and your average NS player if they in motion state "move as far away from NS universe as possible" they intend it to be on a different engine actually which is saying something, if that's the case, just don't even bother.
If we're playing NS we want to be able to change to CO game-mode after a really long NS game that left the server nearly empty, we want to switch to combat mode to train 1v1, train as a team, to 1v1 eachother on maps like co_faceoff aka co_legacy (really decent map in combat) we want to be able to seed a server with co game mode so we can just have fun, that'll open a whole new case for modding, bringing back xmenu, buildmenu and a whole bunch of other shit alot of modders have wanted to put back into the game as a secondary layer.
And are generaly not interested, as it might split up the community (same as when combat was made for ns1)
That's not a problem, there were reasons as to why it split the community up and that only lasted for around a year, after that it was mulled over and people generally had a formula, vets and newbs seemed to have liked the idea of switching back and fourth between the two. compare 2003/2004-5 clans to that afterwards, straight after cal 2005 the skill level went through the roof in regards to that, in Oceania you had superclans like boost, fex, s5 whom of which trained alot on combat servers, yeah i know because i was playing with them on those public servers, still better then them . oh did i mention mentoring? mentoring actually because a far better thing to do back then because combat was easier to teach on.
Some people don't realise that NS1 went throught a stint where when co was released alot of Vets were upset that it killed ns game mode in public servers, new players constantly playing combat and coming into NS game mode and not knowing how to play, but this was short lived because once the formula of combat game-mode every few rounds it worked out for the betterment and longevity of NS, hell i'm telling you NS1 wouldn't have lived up until 2012/2013 long live wonga. if it wasn't for combat and there wouldn't have been as many awesome superclans without combat, do you think NS2 will live that long? i sure as hope so.
@Ironhorse yeah i don't know man, i think it's pretty self explanatory, maybe it wasn't sabotage but it sure as damn well looked like it and i didn't base it off my own upset at it turning out the way it day, from day 1 it was like that.
So they purchased it from the original NS1 modeler who made the LMG and Knife that sure is nice isn't it, got a citation for that? it's pretty much a replica actually that and Didn't ice create the LMG/Knife for NS2 then you used it in NS2Combat so technically he wasn't the original artist due to contracts with UWE? i mean the gun is pretty much a copy of a nailgun from various games even if you wanna put it that far, but it's NS1 LMG at the end of the day, i even saw somewhere there "for UWE, gift for community" and this is prior to release of combat right? some of that LMG stuff is from 2012/2013 before FLG came into the scene. Which is my point of "workshop mods and maps"
I surely don't know what i am talking about right?
The only bit I agree with is the last line of yours I quoted above.
ICE made the model. It was not contracted to UWE. FLG wanted to use the models, so they purchased them from ICE. UWE have nothing to do with this, other than the fact they published combat, which gave the Combat team the right to use Spark and the assets UWE had created.
I really can't see why you think you know better than the people who were there.
Heh, I remember expecting it to be free and built into the main game and when I discovered that you had to pay for it and it was a separate client, it blew my mind.
Anyway, I played about 4 hours of combat SA but I would've played more if there was an actual playerbase, it was quite fun. I even played the broken modded version a lot because it was quick, digestible gameplay, jump in and jump out. Shame that the SA killed the damn mod so there's no chance of even playing that format. I don't know who thought that the business model of releasing it standalone and paid was a good idea, it should've been implemented into the main game.
Just because you're a game developer doesn't mean that you know whats best for the game and its no more evident than in combat standalone. A lot of potential, skill and passion but a lack of foresight and experience killed it.
Just because you're a game developer doesn't mean that you know whats best for the game and its no more evident than in combat standalone. A lot of potential, skill and passion but a lack of foresight and experience killed it.
Not FLG's fault. Their hands were tied. I have a small amount of first-hand understanding but a good amount of second-hand info from some people intimately close with ns2:c's development. Said it once, will say it again. FLG was hampered by UWE nearly every step of the way until they were stuck in the quicksand we all knew they were headed for.
I'm not blaming FLG but somebody thought it was a good idea to push for this business strategy and it was a colossal failure, the game was practically dead on arrival which is a shame because there was some cool stuff in it and the brief time that I could actually play it before it died (which was within hours or days), I did have a lot of fun.
ICE made the model. It was not contracted to UWE. FLG wanted to use the models, so they purchased them from ICE. UWE have nothing to do with this, other than the fact they published combat, which gave the Combat team the right to use Spark and the assets UWE had created.
I really can't see why you think you know better than the people who were there.
The mark Natural Selection was first represented in association with video-game software in June of 2001, and was first used in commerce around January, 2002. Natural Selection is Registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (No. 4,179,393).
I don't think UWE let them have the "rights" to the NS1 LMG which is completely different, it doesn't matter if someone creates a mod, it's still a replica of the original varient and they can't sell it, even if it has a slightly different mechanism for "draw" on screen.
I always hear "killing the mod this, killing the mod that...". You all know that the mod was broken before it went stand alone, right? The guys who made and updated the mod stopped updating it and left ns2 to go make another game.
Since everyone seems to have forgotten, I found some old threads:
Dude, the mod was fine and ur just another silly person with cancerous opinions. Clear as water that the mod kept in more players and was actually played by good players too.
If they can't integrate combat back into ns2 then what about making combat free to play and using it as a sort of testing platform.. (and a way to draw new players in)
I mean lets face it a dead game isn't going to be making them any profit...
However if it went F2P they could make money off of selling skins/badges/patches/etc (which could even be usable in both games) and assets from combat could make their way into ns2...
Seems like it would be better than just letting combat die and fade away into nothing but a forgotten memory.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2016
Back on topic.
About the death of combat. I see it as an opportunity. As a modder, I am continually frustrated by the constant updating of NS2. Even now, I spend more time fighting fires than getting mods developed.
With this in mind, I have turned my attention back to Combat.
As almost none of you know, this month marks the 1 year anniversary of @Scatter and my independent decisions to resign from developing a new game mode for Combat.
The reasons for our departure were 'artistic differences'. Although given licence by FLG to abandon the ties to NS2 and create a game mode to attract new players, in practice, the playtesters and active devs believed combat could be saved by staying as combat, and we were butting heads all the time over our design decisions.
All that is in the past now. Yesterday I fired up the source code (as it was official, I was fully integrating it into combat, while Scatter did more of the gameplay), and was surprised to remember how far we had got in the game mode.
As a result, I am now attempting to finish the game mode, now I can develop without code base changes. Sure, there are no players currently, but I am going to take this opportunity to make a mod that people might enjoy if they did pick up the game.
I will be working solo on this, so don't expect any major news too quickly. My first job is to update to the new combat code. While we have a fully working game, it is not balanced, and only the marines have had any serious work done on them. However, I have no plans to release this anytime soon, as I want to continue to develop the mode as professionally as we were when it was going to be official.
Thank you for your theories on copyright law. May I suggest if you are ever asked a question about copyright, you refer the questioner to a lawyer.
I never said it was illegal etc or it was copyright infringement, just that someone earlier started spouting somthing about having the rights to the spark engine, i just stated that you can't purchase a license for that model knowingly(if you aren't UWE) based on that license that was released for NS1 in 2013, not sure why anyone would just pick at part of the content from what i've said and not give any reasonable criticism with a well thought out post for what i've said in previous posts, no following up sucks. If you're tired of arguing because you have no point to get across then thank you for your hollow impressions but they've faded.
With that aside, keep on modding i know you've been doing nice work with Scatter, hell i was asked to come help with map/modeling but i just don't have time for it other then to ramble :P
edit:but i am working on an 2 NS2c maps and some extra models/goodies one of those will work on NS2combat i'll see if scatter wants it.
instead of standalone , make it a downloadable mod through NS2. Sure those paid for it will complain (aka me) but as long as the combat mod is alive and has players playing I support it.
Instead of rewriting all the code/models, just modify NS2 to be combat like. Faster gameplay/no commander/buyable menu
The biggest thing that NS2 would actually need to bring in some new players or bring back old ones would be something as big as another game mode and combat would seem to be the most ideal. I don't know if its possible or feasible at the moment and it could just be wishful thinking but integrating combat SA into the main game client would be pretty incredible. Even just brushing up the modded version and adding it as a new mode into a patch might be really good for the game.
When people look at NS2, they see a multiplayer only game, with a small community, only 1 game mode and no singleplayer content. That's a pretty tough sell and nothing enticing to bring back old players.
set a 4tech requirement for all the stuff from combat and add it to ns2, that way it doesnt break ns2 but lets the odminating team have some fun before the final end.
Comments
Since everyone seems to have forgotten, I found some old threads:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/132901/an-announcement-from-the-combat-xenoswarm-team#latest
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/119151/combat-mode-relaunch/p48
Yeah that's why someone updated the mod because they were working on the paid version, it was barely broken... you can still actually play the mod today with some slight modification and it's barely anything, don't know why people try and defend them for things that didn't happen, i'm pretty sure it was working before standalone was released but broken because they left so much time from when it was broken to release, it was technically sabotaged according to a couple of friends of mine who helped with lua and pting for ns2combat, that and anyone who played combat at the the time were wondering why there were 2-3 full combat servers at any one time suddenly there was 0 and no more updates on the combat mod page, that's sabotage and it wasn't because NS2 updated because i simply fixed the combat my on my own server, pretty easiliy.
Did you even read my post? i said that it stopped working before combat was released, i didn't say when...? and besides it wasn't that hard to fix if i remember correctly after that update someone made a combat fix and posted it to the workshop, but there was a few bugs with the menus in game and people weren't able to evolve but that was easily fixable (later realised) it's more like UWE updated the game then it broke a few things, people modding decided they were annoyed at it and stopped developing.
1. UWE constantly updates, breaking mods of all sorts
2. Modders decide they're going to stop updating it
3. Someone releases a fix on the workshop with a few things broken in game (makes it playable but buggy), no one decided to fix those things and servers suffered because it took so long, then then UWE updated NS2 again this time making it even more buggier because that bug from the fix wasn't fixed) yeah and i am not talking about the fix from 2015, there was one far earlier then that.
4. Modders decide they're going to use an older version of spark and release there own game, pretending like it's completely different from NS2 except it wasn't really, just more buggy, slower and had less performance including some workshop mods/models.
Now i don't care if you post threads where it's bias is slanted towards hating on UWE and hating on how fucked up the modding scene was back then, but anyone who was playing combat then was wondering why the combat mod just literally stopped development in NS2, it's funny how some mods like Siege which gets shat on publicly and throughout the modding community for stealing stuff and leaving the game half-broken seems to not realise that the game is easily fixable, even by one person, Kyle Abent made the game work from patch-patch why can't a whole team of modders, especially when he was using code from combat and actually even a working combat clone?
actually if you go to the combat workshop which is more balanced then your threads.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=99831877&searchtext=combat
You can see the major problems start happening after they announce NS2 combat/xenoswarm team had formed.
I just don't have the patience for people trying to defend things which are clearly falsly a misrepresentation of what really happens, especially in history.
Spaghetti much?
But those 4 points and the timeline does not somehow suggest "sabotage".
They gave up entirely on maintaining the mod.. and moved onto another engine to develop another game, which led to UWE contacting them.
I know for a fact that it happened in this order as I was the one who poked Hugh to contact the team, since they appeared to be moving on entirely.
So your sabotage narrative doesn't really fit well here - unless you are proposing that they sabotaged their mod constantly to justify leaving it to go develop a separate game on a separate engine - and then subsequently released their source code to their mods in hopes that "a few of the more active members of our passionate community or even UWE themselves will step up to the plate and keep the mods running, to add new content and to repair them as they break between updates."???...
Yea.. sure sounds like sabotage to me. /s
They know.
Don't feed the trolls. Don't feed people that are close enough, either.
The FLG guys are amazing, and only every wanted to make games. Self-Entitled whiners will always drown out the truth though, because people find it easier to hate on someone if the world doesn't go exactly as they want it to.
There is no single point of failure, but alot of small mistakes, misunderstandings. And "3rd party"(<- diplomatic responce), that severly hurt the (limited)marketing efforts.
As for Intergrating NS2:C into NS2; UWE will not put money into making it a reality. And are generaly not interested, as it might split up the community (same as when combat was made for ns1)
That splitting of the community card that has been pulled time and time again... I'm kinda edging towards the "does it really split up the community?" camp
Just have stand alone servers based on a certain game mode and see how it populates across the board. The issue with NS was that we could change the server game mode and either empty a server with combat orientated players, by choosing classic and vica versa. That is where the main issue was
I mean, right now we have an influx of new players, who play classic because there aren't really other options in terms of available and whitelisted servers for mods. This player influx isn't a very large amount, but it's noticeable. Now I'm sure most of the old school vets will always prefer classic mode regardless.
This fear (irrational?), is mostly present in this here community. I'm having a hard time finding another community with such an adversity vs new game modes. Is it because classic mode is simply not going to appeal to the masses of casual gamers out there? I mean NS(2) has always been a very niche game. But how come we have this counterproductive attitude towards new game modes...
If we step back and look at it from an outsider perspective... It comes across as very weird, new game modes based on the main game are frowned upon. I know we all want classic mode to appeal to more players and the new retention elements have shown to help. But the player base hasn't really grown all that much TBH. I know I know, baby steps to get it to grow.
But from an unbiased point of view, it looks very silly that new game modes, Combat especially, are actively being denied because "it would split up the community". While most other popular games have lots of game modes to choose from...
You can bet your ass, people will always play what they prefer, be it Combat/Last stand/Classic/Faded/Siege/Skulks with Shotguns/Marines vs Marines/NS2Large. Why are we so adamant and elitist, in trying to artificially force people to play our preferred game mode. You can't force people, that shit will never fly, they will either play or leave.
Instead we should provide options with more polished game modes, making the game more content rich and enticing. We should let the players decide. Besides the vets will always prefer classic and if the player base grows (mostly because of new game modes), we will eventually also see a rise in classic gamers... Let's face it dude and dude-ettes, we are a rare breed that prefer deeper games. Heck even I am leaning more and more towards easier to step into and carefree games as well, due to my bucket of time issues. Something I never thought would happen, while still liking harder modes as well...
So they purchased it from the original NS1 modeler who made the LMG and Knife that sure is nice isn't it, got a citation for that? it's pretty much a replica actually that and Didn't ice create the LMG/Knife for NS2 then you used it in NS2Combat so technically he wasn't the original artist due to contracts with UWE? i mean the gun is pretty much a copy of a nailgun from various games even if you wanna put it that far, but it's NS1 LMG at the end of the day, i even saw somewhere there "for UWE, gift for community" and this is prior to release of combat right? some of that LMG stuff is from 2012/2013 before FLG came into the scene. Which is my point of "workshop mods and maps"
I surely don't know what i am talking about right?
I'd just like to see that combat is integrated back into NS universe where it should have been from the start(not necessarily talking about FLG version of combat, but that would be alright, with alot of tweaks), i mean there's obviously some disconnect between FLG and your average NS player if they in motion state "move as far away from NS universe as possible" they intend it to be on a different engine actually which is saying something, if that's the case, just don't even bother.
If we're playing NS we want to be able to change to CO game-mode after a really long NS game that left the server nearly empty, we want to switch to combat mode to train 1v1, train as a team, to 1v1 eachother on maps like co_faceoff aka co_legacy (really decent map in combat) we want to be able to seed a server with co game mode so we can just have fun, that'll open a whole new case for modding, bringing back xmenu, buildmenu and a whole bunch of other shit alot of modders have wanted to put back into the game as a secondary layer.
That's not a problem, there were reasons as to why it split the community up and that only lasted for around a year, after that it was mulled over and people generally had a formula, vets and newbs seemed to have liked the idea of switching back and fourth between the two. compare 2003/2004-5 clans to that afterwards, straight after cal 2005 the skill level went through the roof in regards to that, in Oceania you had superclans like boost, fex, s5 whom of which trained alot on combat servers, yeah i know because i was playing with them on those public servers, still better then them
Some people don't realise that NS1 went throught a stint where when co was released alot of Vets were upset that it killed ns game mode in public servers, new players constantly playing combat and coming into NS game mode and not knowing how to play, but this was short lived because once the formula of combat game-mode every few rounds it worked out for the betterment and longevity of NS, hell i'm telling you NS1 wouldn't have lived up until 2012/2013 long live wonga. if it wasn't for combat and there wouldn't have been as many awesome superclans without combat, do you think NS2 will live that long? i sure as hope so.
The only bit I agree with is the last line of yours I quoted above.
ICE made the model. It was not contracted to UWE. FLG wanted to use the models, so they purchased them from ICE. UWE have nothing to do with this, other than the fact they published combat, which gave the Combat team the right to use Spark and the assets UWE had created.
I really can't see why you think you know better than the people who were there.
Anyway, I played about 4 hours of combat SA but I would've played more if there was an actual playerbase, it was quite fun. I even played the broken modded version a lot because it was quick, digestible gameplay, jump in and jump out. Shame that the SA killed the damn mod so there's no chance of even playing that format. I don't know who thought that the business model of releasing it standalone and paid was a good idea, it should've been implemented into the main game.
Just because you're a game developer doesn't mean that you know whats best for the game and its no more evident than in combat standalone. A lot of potential, skill and passion but a lack of foresight and experience killed it.
Not FLG's fault. Their hands were tied. I have a small amount of first-hand understanding but a good amount of second-hand info from some people intimately close with ns2:c's development. Said it once, will say it again. FLG was hampered by UWE nearly every step of the way until they were stuck in the quicksand we all knew they were headed for.
It sure doesn't look like NS1's LMG does it? and that's what i meant the LMG is an iconic NS1 weapon which is under a license with UWE, this model for NS2 was made in 2012/2013 just before the license was released it was stated as being "for uwe / community" in an iconic reveal? http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/132742/natural-selection-birthday-anniversary-surprise in october 13th then http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2164820#Comment_2164820 rather then for FLG which was revealed on oct 29th.
http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/natural-selection-source-code-released/
Go here look https://github.com/unknownworlds/NS/
I don't think UWE let them have the "rights" to the NS1 LMG which is completely different, it doesn't matter if someone creates a mod, it's still a replica of the original varient and they can't sell it, even if it has a slightly different mechanism for "draw" on screen.
gotta go, ciao!
Dude, the mod was fine and ur just another silly person with cancerous opinions. Clear as water that the mod kept in more players and was actually played by good players too.
Don't post about this anymore kthxbye
I mean lets face it a dead game isn't going to be making them any profit...
However if it went F2P they could make money off of selling skins/badges/patches/etc (which could even be usable in both games) and assets from combat could make their way into ns2...
Seems like it would be better than just letting combat die and fade away into nothing but a forgotten memory.
I dunno it's just a thought...
Thank you for your theories on copyright law. May I suggest if you are ever asked a question about copyright, you refer the questioner to a lawyer.
About the death of combat. I see it as an opportunity. As a modder, I am continually frustrated by the constant updating of NS2. Even now, I spend more time fighting fires than getting mods developed.
With this in mind, I have turned my attention back to Combat.
As almost none of you know, this month marks the 1 year anniversary of @Scatter and my independent decisions to resign from developing a new game mode for Combat.
The reasons for our departure were 'artistic differences'. Although given licence by FLG to abandon the ties to NS2 and create a game mode to attract new players, in practice, the playtesters and active devs believed combat could be saved by staying as combat, and we were butting heads all the time over our design decisions.
All that is in the past now. Yesterday I fired up the source code (as it was official, I was fully integrating it into combat, while Scatter did more of the gameplay), and was surprised to remember how far we had got in the game mode.
As a result, I am now attempting to finish the game mode, now I can develop without code base changes. Sure, there are no players currently, but I am going to take this opportunity to make a mod that people might enjoy if they did pick up the game.
I will be working solo on this, so don't expect any major news too quickly. My first job is to update to the new combat code. While we have a fully working game, it is not balanced, and only the marines have had any serious work done on them. However, I have no plans to release this anytime soon, as I want to continue to develop the mode as professionally as we were when it was going to be official.
I never said it was illegal etc or it was copyright infringement, just that someone earlier started spouting somthing about having the rights to the spark engine, i just stated that you can't purchase a license for that model knowingly(if you aren't UWE) based on that license that was released for NS1 in 2013, not sure why anyone would just pick at part of the content from what i've said and not give any reasonable criticism with a well thought out post for what i've said in previous posts, no following up sucks. If you're tired of arguing because you have no point to get across then thank you for your hollow impressions but they've faded.
With that aside, keep on modding i know you've been doing nice work with Scatter, hell i was asked to come help with map/modeling but i just don't have time for it other then to ramble :P
edit:but i am working on an 2 NS2c maps and some extra models/goodies
Instead of rewriting all the code/models, just modify NS2 to be combat like. Faster gameplay/no commander/buyable menu
When people look at NS2, they see a multiplayer only game, with a small community, only 1 game mode and no singleplayer content. That's a pretty tough sell and nothing enticing to bring back old players.