Don't see why alot of people blame the player retention issues on "smurfs", "hackers" as it is, they litterly have nothing to do with retention and it has more to do with there not being enough playerbase to begin with, free to play would bring in a fucking boatload of people but there's no ground infrastructure right now.
and no in the sense of infrastructure i am not talking about servers, those can be hosted a moments notice, hell i am waiting to add 4-6more Australian servers if needs be all of which can have higher rates then normal and kick most server ops over on there feet.
But these things will take alot of time and i assume the game will be dead by then because alot of passive aggressive people are involved with community so the way things are headed, UWE will have to make the game completely free to play to have it survive the next 2years and that will only happen if the base game is polished in the sense, they've got to have there own release cycle of models, hats, weapon skins, model skins, maybe even new lifeforms down the track and or marine weapons, they don't really need variations of maps at all.
Offical servers can be hosted on the cheap if they aren't getting raped by "marketing" costs. that's why we shouldn't allow Hugh or any of the people initially involved in the raping of server budget, do you all remember the thousands of UWE servers on release that performed poorly because they were optimized pieces of shit or admin was given out to randoms no one knew, most people stuck to community servers anyway.
Free to play or no play, sorry Flayra your plan to replace all the vets and old pts with new age ones really has taken a spin for the worst, i know you must feel bad for that too since it technically was your directive but in the end why not just capitalise as a businessman and fire anyone who originally wasn't on the UWE NS2 dev team and just go half-full time creating skins, new weapon modes and then just letting the CDT fix bugs and add in new features at your directive?
Sick and tired of coming to these forums to hear a conversation where everyone is hugging everyone and complementing people that otherwise shouldn't be complemented just to save 'face'
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
For those whom it will interest, two arguably topical notes about TGNS:
) players may change their player name only every 3 weeks (enforced after a player has 20 games on the game server)
) we effectively enforce our zero tolerance of haccusations (outright, jokes, sarcasm, passive-aggression, whatever) on the game server
One 8v8 game server can only fit so many, which is unfortunate, and some will argue these weren't problems to begin with, but I hate reading about people wishing these problems were solved when we've effectively solved them at TGNS.
) players may change their player name only every 3 weeks (enforced after a player has 20 games on the game server)
This is a commendable response in regards to what's being discussed, but the horrendous downside of this policy is that it prevents me from changing my name from NousWanderer to I Got a Stew Goin' every time I'm playing while simultaneously cooking a small platoon's worth of Grade A-delicious red wine beef stew.
And that's precisely the kind of problem that's limiting this community's growth.
My only opinions on NS2's lack of population are:
1. Payware Price (there are alternatives to making money - I only got this game through a steam gift from a fellow clan member from Tremulous)
2. Specs requirements. I have heard many issues in regards to the resource consumption repuration.
I'm still a newbie at this game since although I did claim the game over a year ago I only recently started playing it when I got my new computer.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
You /can/ report cheaters on TGNS, but there's a time and a place. Admin chat is decent, and something entirely off the game server is better. So it's not that we don't allow reports, but that we don't allow public haccusations.
If the player *is* cheating, broadcasting the accusation that is likely to hinder admins' efforts to gather sufficient evidence in a timely manner. Meanwhile, everyone's focusing on that instead of gameplay. In addition, none of us has ever solved a genuine cheater by calling attention to his cheats. Postponed, maybe (*maybe*, and that's being generous), but not solved.
If the player is *not* cheating, they're very skilled, they haven't at all earned the negative energy that comes with haccusations (nor has anyone else on the game server earned it). As this scenario (wherein the player is NOT cheating) is the case 99 times out of every 100 haccusations, we tell people to shush and put their haccusation energy into the teamwork and coordination which are plainly required to overcome this powerhouse's /skill/. Somehow, reports of genuine cheaters always find their way to admins regardless.
We've shut down cheaters at TGNS. We just do it quietly, and we hold each other to that standard.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
( oh, and the genuine jokes are an acceptable casualty in the context of high-skill players being able to enjoy competent casual teamplay without having to tolerate genuine accusations -- we find plenty of ways to make jokes )
@Calego, what do you think about making it OpenSource? It'll allow to experiment more with the development without touching the current selling mode.
Well technically NS2 is open source in terms of the game code, you could potentially do anything you want. The only limiting factor here is the max size of 100Mb of the workshop. That is the reason why NS2 mods do that dependency thing on the NS2 lua/materials/models etc... To keep the mod from going over that limit. But with this comes the issue that, if stuff changes in the NS2 lua, the mod can break.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Working with other people's code syndrom?
But yeah, I'm not sure they are considering opening up the engine/tools. The engine itself is kinda their bread and butter for licensing. Although, while Spark might be interesting for small indie teams. There are also vastly superior engines with more support (and marketing) out there as well. Not sure, are those open source in the game engine parts? UDK/Doomtech/Unity etc...
But yeah, I'm not sure they are considering opening up the engine/tools. The engine itself is kinda their bread and butter for licensing. Although, while Spark might be interesting for small indie teams. There are also vastly superior engines with more support (and marketing) out there as well. Not sure, are those open source in the game engine parts? UDK/Doomtech/Unity etc...
I thought unity was opensource, but definitely isn't. There are a few.
I think that as long as a game is being invested in (like how UWE are doing now) it won't be opensourced. Even afterwards its doubtful that the code will ever be fully released. Lua is all we get for now.
Of the available engines, which would be the best match for implementing the features NS2 has? why?
I mean... what about NS2 would be hard to implement on a different engine?
Source engine perfect for physics and just about everything except "lighting" and to be honest, you'd be stupid to never make your engine free/opensource after your company dies or you give up with it, just take away proprietary parts Max coded in and be done with it if it comes to it.
Well Flayra/Charlie did release NS1 sourcecode to github if anyone needs it.
make your engine free/opensource after your company dies or you give up with it
That exactly the wrong approach. OpenSource development is about the development, not about spewing code of some abandonware.
You have to be actively developing in order to lead the OpenSource project: you check and accept patches, you share with contributors your vision of what the game will look like, so they can align their work with it (and can actually enter the development and teach others).
Normally, the company releases the code as GPL and accepts the contributions as the property of the company.
(NS2 should go with AGPL to cover the server stuff properly; leave licensing for the assets unchanged)
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Spark 2 is in development for future games.
I'd wager a bet, that spark won't be open-sourced until after Goldsrc (HL1 engine) is, and the same number of years have passed from the release of NS2, as hl1 until the open-sourcing of goldsrc.
@Soul_Rider, that doesn't make sense. Different engine from different time and in different state (goldsrc is already a software archaeology, so impossible to restart the dev).
Comments
and no in the sense of infrastructure i am not talking about servers, those can be hosted a moments notice, hell i am waiting to add 4-6more Australian servers if needs be all of which can have higher rates then normal and kick most server ops over on there feet.
But these things will take alot of time and i assume the game will be dead by then because alot of passive aggressive people are involved with community so the way things are headed, UWE will have to make the game completely free to play to have it survive the next 2years and that will only happen if the base game is polished in the sense, they've got to have there own release cycle of models, hats, weapon skins, model skins, maybe even new lifeforms down the track and or marine weapons, they don't really need variations of maps at all.
Offical servers can be hosted on the cheap if they aren't getting raped by "marketing" costs. that's why we shouldn't allow Hugh or any of the people initially involved in the raping of server budget, do you all remember the thousands of UWE servers on release that performed poorly because they were optimized pieces of shit or admin was given out to randoms no one knew, most people stuck to community servers anyway.
Free to play or no play, sorry Flayra your plan to replace all the vets and old pts with new age ones really has taken a spin for the worst, i know you must feel bad for that too since it technically was your directive but in the end why not just capitalise as a businessman and fire anyone who originally wasn't on the UWE NS2 dev team and just go half-full time creating skins, new weapon modes and then just letting the CDT fix bugs and add in new features at your directive?
Sick and tired of coming to these forums to hear a conversation where everyone is hugging everyone and complementing people that otherwise shouldn't be complemented just to save 'face'
) players may change their player name only every 3 weeks (enforced after a player has 20 games on the game server)
) we effectively enforce our zero tolerance of haccusations (outright, jokes, sarcasm, passive-aggression, whatever) on the game server
One 8v8 game server can only fit so many, which is unfortunate, and some will argue these weren't problems to begin with, but I hate reading about people wishing these problems were solved when we've effectively solved them at TGNS.
And that's precisely the kind of problem that's limiting this community's growth.
My only opinions on NS2's lack of population are:
1. Payware Price (there are alternatives to making money - I only got this game through a steam gift from a fellow clan member from Tremulous)
2. Specs requirements. I have heard many issues in regards to the resource consumption repuration.
I'm still a newbie at this game since although I did claim the game over a year ago I only recently started playing it when I got my new computer.
Also, what do you do if there is a legitimate and obvious hacker in your server; as an uninformed player am I not supposed to say anything?
If the player *is* cheating, broadcasting the accusation that is likely to hinder admins' efforts to gather sufficient evidence in a timely manner. Meanwhile, everyone's focusing on that instead of gameplay. In addition, none of us has ever solved a genuine cheater by calling attention to his cheats. Postponed, maybe (*maybe*, and that's being generous), but not solved.
If the player is *not* cheating, they're very skilled, they haven't at all earned the negative energy that comes with haccusations (nor has anyone else on the game server earned it). As this scenario (wherein the player is NOT cheating) is the case 99 times out of every 100 haccusations, we tell people to shush and put their haccusation energy into the teamwork and coordination which are plainly required to overcome this powerhouse's /skill/. Somehow, reports of genuine cheaters always find their way to admins regardless.
We've shut down cheaters at TGNS. We just do it quietly, and we hold each other to that standard.
Well technically NS2 is open source in terms of the game code, you could potentially do anything you want. The only limiting factor here is the max size of 100Mb of the workshop. That is the reason why NS2 mods do that dependency thing on the NS2 lua/materials/models etc... To keep the mod from going over that limit. But with this comes the issue that, if stuff changes in the NS2 lua, the mod can break.
What I wanted to do was either in the engine or the tools which aren't open.
Anyway, it's fundamentally limiting when you don't know what's exactly going on in every part of the thing you're debugging.
But yeah, I'm not sure they are considering opening up the engine/tools. The engine itself is kinda their bread and butter for licensing. Although, while Spark might be interesting for small indie teams. There are also vastly superior engines with more support (and marketing) out there as well. Not sure, are those open source in the game engine parts? UDK/Doomtech/Unity etc...
I thought unity was opensource, but definitely isn't. There are a few.
I think that as long as a game is being invested in (like how UWE are doing now) it won't be opensourced. Even afterwards its doubtful that the code will ever be fully released. Lua is all we get for now.
I mean... what about NS2 would be hard to implement on a different engine?
Source engine perfect for physics and just about everything except "lighting" and to be honest, you'd be stupid to never make your engine free/opensource after your company dies or you give up with it, just take away proprietary parts Max coded in and be done with it if it comes to it.
Well Flayra/Charlie did release NS1 sourcecode to github if anyone needs it.
That exactly the wrong approach. OpenSource development is about the development, not about spewing code of some abandonware.
You have to be actively developing in order to lead the OpenSource project: you check and accept patches, you share with contributors your vision of what the game will look like, so they can align their work with it (and can actually enter the development and teach others).
Normally, the company releases the code as GPL and accepts the contributions as the property of the company.
(NS2 should go with AGPL to cover the server stuff properly; leave licensing for the assets unchanged)
I'd wager a bet, that spark won't be open-sourced until after Goldsrc (HL1 engine) is, and the same number of years have passed from the release of NS2, as hl1 until the open-sourcing of goldsrc.
(In other words, it ain't gonna happen).
If it's for the future, then open source.