I have had minimal chances to play this mod. One thing I am noticing is that the player has a lot more choice in what to spend their pres on. It would even seem that pres would be equally important on marines with this mod, as it is to aliens at least compared to vanilla.
Is anything changed with the base resource system to account for this? For those who have played the mod more, does this even matter?
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
tbh, due to the cost reductions and the fact that marines can in essence recycle the Pres spent by picking up the weapons, the resource system doesn't need reworking imo.
But I may be wrong, i'm basing this off of what i've seen so far, but I think the overhaul shows a LOT of promise and it would be great if more servers adopted the mod to test it more thoroughly.
I'm not sure of the code, but res ticks certianly felt a little slower, certainly at the start of the game, if you don't get RTs up immediately you're gonna have a bad time.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
No changes have been made to res income only a cost reduction to items. This is still in development, just slowly over the next few weeks due to work commitments.
Skulk, lerk, and fade all feel slower. Skulks feel like brick skulks, lerks feel like they have little acceleration, and fades drop like rocks. I know you said nothing changed but they play very different.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
edited November 2015
Also, gamebreaking bugs today during SCC playtesting.
Bug starts around 2:50.
EDIT: Hmm, still processing. Try to watch it in 1080p60. The gorge movement got REALLY stuttery, bilebomb and spit wouldn't show up, my view model was stuck on idle animation, or something like that, and I couldn't place any gorge structures. Also, console spam.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
It happened when you changed from silence to celerity... So i'd assume its connected to that... but it sounds like its effecting everyone, not just you... that quite bizzarre.
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
If you look at 7:00 you can see some of the console spam that we were all getting. I think you forgot some parentheses in your code, it's complaining about adding a number and a function.
axamdeepShanghai, ChinaJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72226Members, Squad Five Blue
This mod is great, I've put this mod on our server 2 weeks and we had played 50+ rounds as 10 vs 10 so far.
We've also found several of bugs in the game, such as:
* Marines:
* * SMG on the ground would never disappears.
* * SMG no hit sound.
* * A fresh SMG have ammo of 50/200, but can fill it to 50/250 by armory or ammo packs.
* * SMG right-click attack (slashing knife) won't do any damage.
* * The 5th purchasable item in prototype lab named "Cloak" but have no effect of cloak after bought it.
* * An exo player who is in ready room that if he pressed G (eject from the exo), the exo won't be destroyed but endlessly duplicates more exos, then makes the server crashed.
* Aliens:
* * A player who evolved to an onos, after finished he would getting spams in his console, and unable to restore until quit game.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2017
Decided to work on this again and go back to basics rather than adding in too much stuff in one go that is buggy. I'll generally roll it out in stages now and the focus of stage one is to get the concept of no passive stat upgrades to work.
Stage 1
*Removal of Marine passive upgrades and set base damage and armour to level 2 values
*Adjust skulk, gorge and lerk hp values slightly to compensate for early game loss of power
*Remove biomass health boost
*Celerity/Carapace changes
*Marine tech price adjustments to compensate
Future Stages
-> Onos and Exo commander dropped super units
-> Tech tree flattening and adjustments
-> New Content
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2017
I thought it worth mentioning that I am ditching the light, medium and heavy armour types as it was a bit cumbersome and have instead decided to default marines to W2/A2 and rebalance alien HP to take that into account. This doesn't mean I won't add some armour types to the game in future.
I've started throwing some numbers into a spreadsheet for how I intend to balance the life forms which can be found here and want some feedback from people before I actually implement. Some notes to keep in mind when considering the values:
*Marines will have no passive Weapon or Armour upgrades
*Marines balanced at W2/A2 by default
*Skulks, Lerks and Gorges need some HP boosts to make them competitive in the early game. Fade remains untouched as I don't think W2/A2 vs fade is in a bad state
*Lifeforms will no longer get increase HP from biomass
*Cara now gives you more armour than in vanilla but reduces speed to create a more tanky play style
*Celerity now gives you more speed than in vanilla but reduces armour to create a more fast paced but weaker play style
*Celerity + Cara still give a net benefit to allow that combination but significantly reduced compared to vanilla to promote other upgrades
Let me know what you think and suggest changes to what I propose.
MephillesGermanyJoin Date: 2013-08-07Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
something I would like to see is implementing a second shotgun, LMG and pistol that in the end are on similar strength to the original but who do have a different playstyle.
Like a single fire Assault Rifle (less ammo count but more damage), a higher firerate shotgun with less pellets (meaning less damage) and a revolver as second pistol (just wild suggestions).
The reason behind that is that marines have more options now to choose weapons which they believe feel nicer for them.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Eventually I'd like to add more content like weapons, but I'm not sure about reusing the same models to achieve this. Not sure how to solve that issue...
Also I love the idea of having similar weapons in the same category to increase the freedom of play styles (sorta like the revolver in combat, but more useful)
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2017
Changelog v0.1
Updated Original Post
New ModID: 4035f354
Marine
*Removed Marine Weapons and Armour upgrades
*Marines now have 100/70 default
*Marines now have Weapon level 2 damage by default
*Medpacks doubled in cost (just to fill the void left by zero upgrade research)
*Ammopacks doubled in cost (just to fill the void left by zero upgrade research)
Alien
*Aliens no longer receive additional health from biomass
*Rebalanced skulk, gorge and lerk hp/armour to take into account new marine hp and damage
*Carapace now gives more armour than vanilla but reduces speed
*Celerity now gives more speed than vanilla but reduces armour
*Celerity + Carapace now give a smaller combined boost to Armour and Speed than vanilla
*Alien movement abilities (charge, leap, blink, slide) now affected by Carapace.
Full lifeform HP, Speed and Armour Details found here
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Changelog v0.11
Marine
*GL player damage reduced to 50% down from 80%
*Flamethrower now a secondary weapon (Sprint speed with LMG + FT is 5.4 compared to 6 with LMG + Pistol)
*Removed Arms Lab - This will reappear again its just has no research on it currently
Alien
*Hydras and babblers are now free
*Vampirism now also heals armour (not with spikes)
MephillesGermanyJoin Date: 2013-08-07Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
Flamethrower as secondary is a good idea I think. It has been tried in compmod before but never rly worked out. Here some thoughts of mine on why I think it did not work out properly:
What I have heard quite alot in the past that FT has it's use but people prefer the extra damage output done by an LMG even. And looking that FT is being used in at most 1% of the games in NSL it clearly indicates that FT is not in a good place atm. This actually brings me back to dragons compmod who actually did address that issue by having the FT as secondary weapon.
Back then this kind of failed aswell. In my opinion that was because the pistol is still an awesome weapon to finish lifeforms at distance and it is available from the start for free.
So why would you pay tres to research a weapon and pay pres to buy a weapon that gets rid of the pistol in your inventory?
However I think this approach was not too far off. What I would propose here actually is changing the FT to how it used to be in dragons compmod when it was a secondary. In addition to that the FT should be available with AA (or maybe it is already... don't know). And then you can equip it as secondary weapon for 0 pres. At last I would propose to make alien RTs flamable targets (like cysts) so then you have a secondary weapon that is worse at killing lifeforms but can burst down RTs quite effectively. This might be a good complementary weapon to the MG then which lacks DPS against buildings.
Flamethrower as secondary is a good idea I think. It has been tried in compmod before but never rly worked out. Here some thoughts of mine on why I think it did not work out properly
Thanks for the feedback. It definitely can't stay as a primary weapon and I understand the point about the pistol.
The other alternative is to make it entirely support and have it on slot 3 as a utility weapon with a much smaller price tag (less than 10) and lower combat potential.
As this mod is a major overhaul to the gameplay while preserving the general feel of the pvp aspect I am happy to try anything that is considered 'out there' if it is reasonable.
Comments
Is anything changed with the base resource system to account for this? For those who have played the mod more, does this even matter?
But I may be wrong, i'm basing this off of what i've seen so far, but I think the overhaul shows a LOT of promise and it would be great if more servers adopted the mod to test it more thoroughly.
EDIT: Hmm, still processing. Try to watch it in 1080p60. The gorge movement got REALLY stuttery, bilebomb and spit wouldn't show up, my view model was stuck on idle animation, or something like that, and I couldn't place any gorge structures. Also, console spam.
We've also found several of bugs in the game, such as:
* Marines:
* * SMG on the ground would never disappears.
* * SMG no hit sound.
* * A fresh SMG have ammo of 50/200, but can fill it to 50/250 by armory or ammo packs.
* * SMG right-click attack (slashing knife) won't do any damage.
* * The 5th purchasable item in prototype lab named "Cloak" but have no effect of cloak after bought it.
* * An exo player who is in ready room that if he pressed G (eject from the exo), the exo won't be destroyed but endlessly duplicates more exos, then makes the server crashed.
* Aliens:
* * A player who evolved to an onos, after finished he would getting spams in his console, and unable to restore until quit game.
"Needless to say that will not happen."
Take on a much more sinister tone if you look at your Avatar immmediately before and after reading
Stage 1
*Removal of Marine passive upgrades and set base damage and armour to level 2 values
*Adjust skulk, gorge and lerk hp values slightly to compensate for early game loss of power
*Remove biomass health boost
*Celerity/Carapace changes
*Marine tech price adjustments to compensate
Future Stages
-> Onos and Exo commander dropped super units
-> Tech tree flattening and adjustments
-> New Content
Not sure haven't released the build yet but ill do a quick test to see.
Thanks!
Looking to release something this weekend and test it over the following week.
I've started throwing some numbers into a spreadsheet for how I intend to balance the life forms which can be found here and want some feedback from people before I actually implement. Some notes to keep in mind when considering the values:
*Marines will have no passive Weapon or Armour upgrades
*Marines balanced at W2/A2 by default
*Skulks, Lerks and Gorges need some HP boosts to make them competitive in the early game. Fade remains untouched as I don't think W2/A2 vs fade is in a bad state
*Lifeforms will no longer get increase HP from biomass
*Cara now gives you more armour than in vanilla but reduces speed to create a more tanky play style
*Celerity now gives you more speed than in vanilla but reduces armour to create a more fast paced but weaker play style
*Celerity + Cara still give a net benefit to allow that combination but significantly reduced compared to vanilla to promote other upgrades
Let me know what you think and suggest changes to what I propose.
Like a single fire Assault Rifle (less ammo count but more damage), a higher firerate shotgun with less pellets (meaning less damage) and a revolver as second pistol (just wild suggestions).
The reason behind that is that marines have more options now to choose weapons which they believe feel nicer for them.
More detailed reasoning is here https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2357273/#Comment_2357273
Atleast I'd like to see it as some kind of experiment^^
Also I love the idea of having similar weapons in the same category to increase the freedom of play styles (sorta like the revolver in combat, but more useful)
Updated Original Post
New ModID: 4035f354
Marine
*Removed Marine Weapons and Armour upgrades
*Marines now have 100/70 default
*Marines now have Weapon level 2 damage by default
*Medpacks doubled in cost (just to fill the void left by zero upgrade research)
*Ammopacks doubled in cost (just to fill the void left by zero upgrade research)
Alien
*Aliens no longer receive additional health from biomass
*Rebalanced skulk, gorge and lerk hp/armour to take into account new marine hp and damage
*Carapace now gives more armour than vanilla but reduces speed
*Celerity now gives more speed than vanilla but reduces armour
*Celerity + Carapace now give a smaller combined boost to Armour and Speed than vanilla
*Alien movement abilities (charge, leap, blink, slide) now affected by Carapace.
Full lifeform HP, Speed and Armour Details found here
Marine
*GL player damage reduced to 50% down from 80%
*Flamethrower now a secondary weapon (Sprint speed with LMG + FT is 5.4 compared to 6 with LMG + Pistol)
*Removed Arms Lab - This will reappear again its just has no research on it currently
Alien
*Hydras and babblers are now free
*Vampirism now also heals armour (not with spikes)
Thanks for the feedback. It definitely can't stay as a primary weapon and I understand the point about the pistol.
The other alternative is to make it entirely support and have it on slot 3 as a utility weapon with a much smaller price tag (less than 10) and lower combat potential.
As this mod is a major overhaul to the gameplay while preserving the general feel of the pvp aspect I am happy to try anything that is considered 'out there' if it is reasonable.