MephillesGermanyJoin Date: 2013-08-07Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
I always used combat to warm up my aim before I played a ns2 match. with a standalone this is barely possible. Maybe change it in some weird way and cooperation with CDT that once you own ns2 and ns2c that you can enter ns2c servers from ns2 server browser and maybe add the classic ns2 combat as extra gamemode
I first played combat SA before I even herd about ns2. I'm not sure how the mod was, but to me sa combat really has nothing to do with ns2. Sure it uses a lot of the same art assets but the game play is completely different. If you play combat with the expectations of it being balanced like ns2 in any way, you're going to be disappointed because its a different game. Combat is not death match ns2. I mean how could it be? NS2 is balanced around res and rts elements. Again I never played the mod, but I'm (mostly) happy the way combat is balanced. It's a much faster playing game and a lot more forgiving for dying.
I always used combat to warm up my aim before I played a ns2 match. with a standalone this is barely possible. Maybe change it in some weird way and cooperation with CDT that once you own ns2 and ns2c that you can enter ns2c servers from ns2 server browser and maybe add the classic ns2 combat as extra gamemode
Seemed like a lot of people were hoping for combat to be easier than ns2, both in terms of just hopping in quickly to a game (to some extent this was true.) and also in terms of it requiring less skill or game knowledge to enjoy it. I feel that I found the latter to be inaccurate. Since combat is a lot more about you killing opponents and gaining xp, the good/great players reached higher levels much quicker and seemed like the snowball effect was actually much stronger.
"Sure it uses a lot of the same art assets but the game play is completely different. If you play combat with the expectations of it being balanced like ns2 in any way, you're going to be disappointed because its a different game. Combat is not death match ns2.
I guess that's why I don't like it, but that's ok for me.
I mean how could it be? NS2 is balanced around res and rts elements. Again I never played the mod, but I'm (mostly) happy the way combat is balanced. It's a much faster playing game and a lot more forgiving for dying.
Well the phases of ns2 vanilla are meant to be relatively balanced with power switches happening throughout the game, but the thing that finishes the games in ns2 is the cumulation of RTS factors. I can't remember the objective of combat now but it really doesn't matter. A base skulk is equal enough to a base marine that skill can determine who wins instead of outright stats. NS2 combat mod had pretty similar numbers to NS2 vanilla and that was fun.
I don't think it would make any sense at all to make this combat shortcut in ns2 or whatever. It is as @Mephiles says, combat was used by many to warm up before playing ns2. But why would you warm up in an entirely different client, that is going to have completely different gameplay settings and overall feel?
It doesn't make any sense to me. I think Ns2:combat SA is an idea that could've worked. But they made it too close to ns2 - and I know some people will adamantly deny that it is. But there is simply no incentive to play combat when I can play ns2. It did incorporate the shooting aspect that I love from ns2 - but combat did nothing to try and fix the already existing problems of ns2.
The snowballing effect for example. Something that's usually associated with RTS. Faultlinegames managed to remove the RTS element of NS2, but retain the major weakness of the genre, by introducing a mechanic that rewards the people who get frags by making them better able at making more frags... - I mean, people keep saying that Combat is more forgiving about deaths, and this helps the new players, because you can get your dead lerk or fade back right away... But in reality, combat is far more UNforgiving than Ns2 is about these deaths, because they make your opponent stronger - and that fucks up your whole team through the moba-like feeding mechanic.
The large skill gaps between players is another example. Faultlinegames did very little at all, outside the cheap pve mechanics and the onos, to close the skill gaps. At least from what I can tell. No rookie only servers, no matchmaking.
Combat is not a rookie-friendly game imo - far from it.
That said, I really enjoyed playing the mod btw. But I don't see it making any sense to attempt to merge the clients. -and I don't see it being a great tool for rookies to learn the game either.
Compared to the original mod, the current build is very rookie friendly. Rookies get showered with free XP and the snowball effect is therefor not that strong. Most of the time teams have similar level distributions. It all boils down to tactics.
If you suck at C:SA now, you either spent all your points on stuff that doesn't help you during the actual combat, or you haven't developed the most basic FPS skills known to mankind.
As was mentioned above, the current build is much friendlier towards rookies then the build at release. In the upcoming patch, the xp system has been moved from xp per kill to a streaming system. XP is gained from every point of damage inflicted on players and key structures. While kills still reward small bonus, rookie players are no longer more then 3 or 4 levels from the top players; even if their k/d is terrible.
Aside from that, NS2: Combat as it is now is a far cry from how it was at launch, and will be growing quite a bit from here. If you enjoy the tactical side of NS2, we invite you to try it out during our hosted Saturday games or wait until the patch releases. Either way, we hope to see you on.
I did end up joining this steam group, so thank you for posting the link.
I got this message today so I thought I would share if anyone else feels like installing and joining later today. I know I am going to try to be there at 4pm pst.
We are moving the EU pub game further up due to a playtest we will be having at that time today. The pub game will start two hours after the playtest and will run right into the NA pub game. We will have both the EU and NA servers up, so feel free to join either at any time. These appear to be regular times they play, so if anyone is interested I would keep note of them.
North American Game Time:
Time : 7:00pm EST (4:00pm PST)
Server : http://DiamondGamers.net - NS2: Combat Server
European Game Time:
Time : 9pm UTC (10pm CET)
Server :[NL] Wraith
We will also be streaming our PT on our channel:
Playtest Stream:
Time: 3pm EST (7pm UTC)
Twitch Channel:
Ha ha, great watch! Watching loke run at marines for 15 mins straight as a gorge, and die every single time then proceed to moan that "pigs are too squishy".
Ha ha, great watch! Watching loke run at marines for 15 mins straight as a gorge, and die every single time then proceed to moan that "pigs are too squishy".
I was mistaken! We were trying to trying a series of small tweaks to various weapons and attacks and one of the weapons got a little to buffed.
Ha ha, great watch! Watching loke run at marines for 15 mins straight as a gorge, and die every single time then proceed to moan that "pigs are too squishy".
Bought the NS2 Combat which is essentially a dead game now. I don't get it why it didn't pick up since pretty much anyone can jump in and play without difficult team setup and all that building from full NS2...
1) It's basically a paid mod
2) And in direct relation to the first, NS2 combat mod existed for a while before the paid version came. When you have a community of people enjoying milk for free, the dumbest thing you can do is take their milk away and force them to buy a cow to get it back. You're not going to make any friends or fans doing that.
3) Part of the draw for NS2 was precisely the team setup and base building.
If Faultline honestly wants to actually make NS:C then it needs to stand out from NS2 to justify the cost to buy and the time spent. It's simply too much of a brainless run and gun (or bite), and one of the worst kind among many others.
Also, one of the biggest factors for game success is retaining players, and that was what kept NS alive all these years. NS2 didn't really grow the community, and NSC aimed to split it.
... It's simply too much of a brainless run and gun (or bite), and one of the worst kind among many others.
If you havent played it, what gives you the right to comment on it like you have?
He has the exact point of view than me and yet, I played the game. How could he be right about it without even played it once? He doesn't criticize in details NS2:C but more its gameplay in a whole and you don't need to have played a game to know those things. Small pieces of the game through videos are quite enough actually to get it.
Bought the NS2 Combat which is essentially a dead game now. I don't get it why it didn't pick up since pretty much anyone can jump in and play without difficult team setup and all that building from full NS2...
Exactly why everyone was flabbergasted when it was announced to be a standalone; If it was amazingly successful it would damage the ns2 community by detracting from its player base and if it stalled at launch and failed to pull said players from ns2 (which was their only realistic target demographic) then you are left with this weird paid mod for an indie shooter (ex-mod) which is struggling to retain its own player base already.
And if faultline and UWE are sure that there is an untapped target market for NS2:combat then why the hell wasnt it supported and implemented into NS2 where communities could have integrated and thrived, brainless shooters and tactical junkies fraging under one roof.
EVERYONE would have benefited and player numbers could have been double what we have now.
Ironically all i really played was combat in ns1 and just look at the state of me 10 years later -
I have paid over £150 to @flayra through buying his games and expansions packs, ive even just bought subnatica wtf charlie stop raping my wallet.
or release combat in ns2 with a £20 badge skin pack and just stick it in a little deeper?
FLG says it will drop the price when they release the patch. I'm not sure what they're dropping it to, but it seems like they are at least listening to somethings the community suggested. Personally I enjoy combat more due to its quick gameplay, but its not really much like ns2 anymore. The alien control for some lifeforms are also very different then ns2.
I think if someone were to re-make a combat mod, you should consider, not making a pure copy of the old mod.
Instead we should try and solve some of the existing problems that rookies will face in particular. I'm of course again speaking of the snowball effect, that exists in both combatmod and vanilla ns2.
Instead of making a system that rewards you based on frags - Keep the idea from vanilla ns2. Have the whole team get the same amount of resources based on the teams progress.
Imagine a mod where there is no commander, there are a number of RT's on the map that generate pres for each team. Both teams can kill the opponents RT's to suppress their resource flow.
It keeps the integrity of vanilla NS2 and retains the benefit that combatmod had; the lack of a need for commanders. So it becomes a real training ground for rookies.
It's been a while since I played combatmod, obviously. But I recall that marines seemed to be sort of forced to stick together, because if your team mates (that may very well be rookies) die, they are feeding your opponents - and for some reason you get experience just by being near a killed enemy. There was little incentive to actually spread out, because there are no secondary objectives (like defending RT's).
You might be thinking; "but you still needed to laneblock, otherwise aliens hit the CC". Well, depending on the maps - I seem to recall that aliens pretty much always could bypass you through the vents - so the best laneblocking seemed to happen at the hive in my experience - this is debatable of course.
This causes combatmod games to become huge clusterfucks - which of course can be fun, to an extent. But imagine that we had some secondary objectives to disperse the action across the maps. I think it would be a much more fun and more educational experience for vets and for rookies. - and you might even be able to simply use existing maps instead of making special customized ones.
Whether or not RT's should start as build or should be build gradually by the players or what ever, such details I'm not really concerned with. My point is mainly about adding these secondary objectives, to disperse the action in to several more areas - and to remove the reward system surrounding fragging, so all players regardless of skill have access to the same gear.
It's been a while since I played combatmod, obviously. But I recall that marines seemed to be sort of forced to stick together, because if your team mates (that may very well be rookies) die, they are feeding your opponents - and for some reason you get experience just by being near a killed enemy. There was little incentive to actually spread out, because there are no secondary objectives (like defending RT's).
I haven't played NS2 versions of combat, but the whole XP from kills system was very bonkers in NS1. It kind of worked in a situation where the round duration was set to 10 or so and the marines were expected to push forward and finish the game in time. Even then the early engagements and snowball effect were obviously very punishing, but the game somewhat had some driving force in it. Meanwhile when the round time got upped to something like 30 or even 45 minutes, the game lost all its urgency and the early game turned into a situation where neither of the teams had any interest or reward in leaving their defensive positions. The safest play was probably to wait for some newbie to feed your team or just hope that someone gets impatient and tries to be aggressive. Neither of them really equals fun or exciting gameplay.
In an asymmetric game with melee vs ranged mechanics, you absolutely want there to be some kind of valuable objectives that force teams to move around and take engagements in less than ideal positions. Frags can still be part of the XP gain, but it's usually not a good idea to have them as your main objective.
Not sure how alive this forum is these days, but combat just released an update. If anyone wants to play before it's truly dead and the dev's finally abandon it for good
Not sure how alive this forum is these days, but combat just released an update. If anyone wants to play before it's truly dead and the dev's finally abandon it for good
Not sure how alive this forum is these days, but combat just released an update. If anyone wants to play before it's truly dead and the dev's finally abandon it for good
There's not a mention even on the Faultline site. Unless they've totally given up, they really need to try to milk out the publicity with this to establish at least some playerbase.
Anyone got a changelist? I'm kind of curious where they're putting their focus in a situation like this.
Not sure how alive this forum is these days, but combat just released an update. If anyone wants to play before it's truly dead and the dev's finally abandon it for good
Anyone got a changelist? I'm kind of curious where they're putting their focus in a situation like this.
Hmm, looks like they're readjusting a lot of the NS2 stuff to suit combat better.
I feel I'd have trouble playing two games with seemingly same stuff, but wildly different feel on some aspects. I'm not sure if that was the case already, but now there's definitely quite a lot of changes contributing it. I guess a lot comes down to how consistent the differences are.
Anyone with actual first hand experience on the patch?
Comments
I would love to see something like this though
I guess that's why I don't like it, but that's ok for me. Well the phases of ns2 vanilla are meant to be relatively balanced with power switches happening throughout the game, but the thing that finishes the games in ns2 is the cumulation of RTS factors. I can't remember the objective of combat now but it really doesn't matter. A base skulk is equal enough to a base marine that skill can determine who wins instead of outright stats. NS2 combat mod had pretty similar numbers to NS2 vanilla and that was fun.
It doesn't make any sense to me. I think Ns2:combat SA is an idea that could've worked. But they made it too close to ns2 - and I know some people will adamantly deny that it is. But there is simply no incentive to play combat when I can play ns2. It did incorporate the shooting aspect that I love from ns2 - but combat did nothing to try and fix the already existing problems of ns2.
The snowballing effect for example. Something that's usually associated with RTS. Faultlinegames managed to remove the RTS element of NS2, but retain the major weakness of the genre, by introducing a mechanic that rewards the people who get frags by making them better able at making more frags... - I mean, people keep saying that Combat is more forgiving about deaths, and this helps the new players, because you can get your dead lerk or fade back right away... But in reality, combat is far more UNforgiving than Ns2 is about these deaths, because they make your opponent stronger - and that fucks up your whole team through the moba-like feeding mechanic.
The large skill gaps between players is another example. Faultlinegames did very little at all, outside the cheap pve mechanics and the onos, to close the skill gaps. At least from what I can tell. No rookie only servers, no matchmaking.
Combat is not a rookie-friendly game imo - far from it.
That said, I really enjoyed playing the mod btw. But I don't see it making any sense to attempt to merge the clients. -and I don't see it being a great tool for rookies to learn the game either.
If you suck at C:SA now, you either spent all your points on stuff that doesn't help you during the actual combat, or you haven't developed the most basic FPS skills known to mankind.
Aside from that, NS2: Combat as it is now is a far cry from how it was at launch, and will be growing quite a bit from here. If you enjoy the tactical side of NS2, we invite you to try it out during our hosted Saturday games or wait until the patch releases. Either way, we hope to see you on.
I did end up joining this steam group, so thank you for posting the link.
I got this message today so I thought I would share if anyone else feels like installing and joining later today. I know I am going to try to be there at 4pm pst.
I was mistaken! We were trying to trying a series of small tweaks to various weapons and attacks and one of the weapons got a little to buffed.
Such is the nature of playtesting.
excuse you
i think you mean "magical space hippo"
1) It's basically a paid mod
2) And in direct relation to the first, NS2 combat mod existed for a while before the paid version came. When you have a community of people enjoying milk for free, the dumbest thing you can do is take their milk away and force them to buy a cow to get it back. You're not going to make any friends or fans doing that.
3) Part of the draw for NS2 was precisely the team setup and base building.
If Faultline honestly wants to actually make NS:C then it needs to stand out from NS2 to justify the cost to buy and the time spent. It's simply too much of a brainless run and gun (or bite), and one of the worst kind among many others.
Also, one of the biggest factors for game success is retaining players, and that was what kept NS alive all these years. NS2 didn't really grow the community, and NSC aimed to split it.
If you havent played it, what gives you the right to comment on it like you have?
He has the exact point of view than me and yet, I played the game. How could he be right about it without even played it once? He doesn't criticize in details NS2:C but more its gameplay in a whole and you don't need to have played a game to know those things. Small pieces of the game through videos are quite enough actually to get it.
Exactly why everyone was flabbergasted when it was announced to be a standalone; If it was amazingly successful it would damage the ns2 community by detracting from its player base and if it stalled at launch and failed to pull said players from ns2 (which was their only realistic target demographic) then you are left with this weird paid mod for an indie shooter (ex-mod) which is struggling to retain its own player base already.
And if faultline and UWE are sure that there is an untapped target market for NS2:combat then why the hell wasnt it supported and implemented into NS2 where communities could have integrated and thrived, brainless shooters and tactical junkies fraging under one roof.
EVERYONE would have benefited and player numbers could have been double what we have now.
Ironically all i really played was combat in ns1 and just look at the state of me 10 years later -
I have paid over £150 to @flayra through buying his games and expansions packs, ive even just bought subnatica wtf charlie stop raping my wallet.
or release combat in ns2 with a £20 badge skin pack and just stick it in a little deeper?
Instead we should try and solve some of the existing problems that rookies will face in particular. I'm of course again speaking of the snowball effect, that exists in both combatmod and vanilla ns2.
Instead of making a system that rewards you based on frags - Keep the idea from vanilla ns2. Have the whole team get the same amount of resources based on the teams progress.
Imagine a mod where there is no commander, there are a number of RT's on the map that generate pres for each team. Both teams can kill the opponents RT's to suppress their resource flow.
It keeps the integrity of vanilla NS2 and retains the benefit that combatmod had; the lack of a need for commanders. So it becomes a real training ground for rookies.
It's been a while since I played combatmod, obviously. But I recall that marines seemed to be sort of forced to stick together, because if your team mates (that may very well be rookies) die, they are feeding your opponents - and for some reason you get experience just by being near a killed enemy. There was little incentive to actually spread out, because there are no secondary objectives (like defending RT's).
This causes combatmod games to become huge clusterfucks - which of course can be fun, to an extent. But imagine that we had some secondary objectives to disperse the action across the maps. I think it would be a much more fun and more educational experience for vets and for rookies. - and you might even be able to simply use existing maps instead of making special customized ones.
Whether or not RT's should start as build or should be build gradually by the players or what ever, such details I'm not really concerned with. My point is mainly about adding these secondary objectives, to disperse the action in to several more areas - and to remove the reward system surrounding fragging, so all players regardless of skill have access to the same gear.
In an asymmetric game with melee vs ranged mechanics, you absolutely want there to be some kind of valuable objectives that force teams to move around and take engagements in less than ideal positions. Frags can still be part of the XP gain, but it's usually not a good idea to have them as your main objective.
I will make sure to give it a try.
Anyone got a changelist? I'm kind of curious where they're putting their focus in a situation like this.
They published a steam news with the change-log
I feel I'd have trouble playing two games with seemingly same stuff, but wildly different feel on some aspects. I'm not sure if that was the case already, but now there's definitely quite a lot of changes contributing it. I guess a lot comes down to how consistent the differences are.
Anyone with actual first hand experience on the patch?