I'm not the one who started out by calling people silly and saying "In case you didn't notice...". My first post was a general statement addressing no particular person in this thread.
And again as I said the very second set of sentences in my very first post said plainly:
"Here is my point. Add weapons, don't add weapons, I could care less..."
So where do you get off telling me my post was "again the circular logic of "other survival games have guns, so if this is a survival game this should have guns too!".
I didn't start insulting people and replying to incorrect interpretations of what other people said. I didn't reply aggressively until you both jumped on my case.
As to whether or not the predators are overpowered (which again is not what I said, I said favored) that is purely a matter of opinion.
Nor at any point in time did I say that the protagonist was not a scientist. Which portion of game mechanics vs backstory isn't clear to you?
As for the DNA transfuser you refer to, is it a major gameplay element presently? Does it significantly add gameplay opportunities? I hope in the future it does.
Speaking of which you also conveniently ignored that I said that I hoped the game advanced further in an exploratory direction. Let me expand on that by saying that I enjoy exploration and discovery. Especially of a scientific nature. It happens to be my favorite part of 4x games, and an area I consider to be sadly underdeveloped in most games claiming it. (And before anyone stupidly misinterprets that, no I am not saying I think this is a 4x game, so don't bother with stupid replies about it).
Edit:Btw I just read the thread about DNA injections and the DNA Transfuser. Let me see if I understand this correctly. Your idea of scientific research is yet another item that is used to enhance your survivability in terms of game mechanics?
Survival game.
If there is truly an argument for scientific discovery for this game, I expect to see a way to examine and catalog various indigenous species and geographical features and learn about them.
i've been to many forums in my lifetime, this is the first where i've seen a flame stop at the threat of embers, well done to you all, I think i'm going to stay a while longer.
but on topic, i don't think weapons should ever be really craftable in this game, maybe if they had to implement them, have them on board the aurora, but id think it would only be like, security weapons, like a stun baton / taser, at worst a hand gun. I just feel that this game would benefit from more weaponry.
i've been to many forums in my lifetime, this is the first where i've seen a flame stop at the threat of embers, well done to you all, I think i'm going to stay a while longer.
but on topic, i don't think weapons should ever be really craftable in this game, maybe if they had to implement them, have them on board the aurora, but id think it would only be like, security weapons, like a stun baton / taser, at worst a hand gun. I just feel that this game would benefit from more weaponry.
no fire arms. wouldn't make sense to have chemical propelent weapons underwater akin to modern smokeless powder.
spear fishing, fishing rods, harpoon launchers ( Hawaiian sling), and maybe a vehicle mounted rail gun for extreme end game reaper and crab squid/ sea emperor defense maybe,
all i want is somthing other then a damn knife, a stasis rifle, and a gravity gun. christ give me a way to throw my damn knife with a semblance of consistency and i'll be happy.
The only lethal weapon I would hate to see is a harpoon... It's got a horrid history and I'd rather see a straight up sword or something
horrid history? im now curious?
Whaling, basically... I'm sure there are other examples but that's what I was thinking of
oh well thats a stretch. cars have a bad history of drunk driving. submarines have a bad history of killing sailors, spoon have a bad history of making people fat
The only lethal weapon I would hate to see is a harpoon... It's got a horrid history and I'd rather see a straight up sword or something
horrid history? im now curious?
Whaling, basically... I'm sure there are other examples but that's what I was thinking of
oh well thats a stretch. cars have a bad history of drunk driving. submarines have a bad history of killing sailors, spoon have a bad history of making people fat
and by harpoon i don't mean this
i mean't like this
Right, hence why I said "history" lol... and how is it a stretch? Just because other things are also used violently doesn't mean that harpoons are violent a stretch, I'm confused
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
@Captain_Pyro - I've only died once in my 49 hours in Subnautica. I was diving off in the Jelly caves, and got disoriented, couldn't find my way back to the seamoth in time and drowned.
I've never had issues with predators, even reapers ignore me because I am always swimming around, rarely use a sea moth.
I don't use a stasis rifle or propulsion/repulsion gun.
I get bitten fairly often, normally when my tunnel vision leads me to completely not see an annoyed creature, and I hear it just as it attacks, but rarely more than 3 times in a single play session.
Admittedly I haven't played since the ferocity of the animals was apparently turned up recently.
Out of interest, because I play the game in such a leisurely way, I suck, at least according to my You-Tube comments, haha.
You just want the creatures to leave you alone right?
So, you don't need to kill, or even harm them. You just need something that makes them stay away, witch could be some sort of frequency that interacts with the creatures brain, making them stay away from you, or just ignore you altogether.
Of course you would have to do research on the individual creatures to figure out what frequency it is, and a frequency that calms one creature down could make others go crazy.
I think a harpoon would be useful for hunting small fish, like what actual divers use today. Maybe even cooking them somehow and thus be a useful survival item in exchange for weight and space.
Did you actually even do more than skim my post?
Yes (honest!) but it was very late for me (see my timestamp) and had a long day, so my brain wasn't working right.
I apologize and I admit that my response was rather out-of-hand.
I think a harpoon would be useful for hunting small fish, like what actual divers use today. Maybe even cooking them somehow and thus be a useful survival item in exchange for weight and space.
Why do ever would want that? Just get a propulsor and click-grab as much fish as you want. No actual diver can even think of such a handy tool today.
Weapons are waste, would add nothing to gameplay. More complex predator behaviour, ways and needs to interact with them - that would be interesting. Also, that mix of feeling curious and unsafe that subnautica gives is really precious and rare. Weaponry and way to make yourself comfortable would spoil that.
I think a harpoon would be useful for hunting small fish, like what actual divers use today. Maybe even cooking them somehow and thus be a useful survival item in exchange for weight and space.
Why do ever would want that? Just get a propulsor and click-grab as much fish as you want. No actual diver can even think of such a handy tool today.
Weapons are waste, would add nothing to gameplay. More complex predator behaviour, ways and needs to interact with them - that would be interesting. Also, that mix of feeling curious and unsafe that subnautica gives is really precious and rare. Weaponry and way to make yourself comfortable would spoil that.
04LeonhardtI came here to laugh at youJoin Date: 2015-08-01Member: 206618Members
edited August 2015
I love how the nightmare scenario that pops into everyone's head when literally any kind of weapon is mentioned is exactly the same.
"Oh we should implement a harpoon to allow players to defend themselves and make hunting easier in the early game. Can't go wrong with a sharp stick!"
"THE PLAYERS WILL LITERALLY KILL THE ENTIRE OCEAN INSTANTLY AND NEVER PLAY THE GAME AGAIN OR EVEN TOUCH THE REST OF THE GAMEPLAY BECAUSE IF YOU ADD WEAPONS THAT AUTOMATICALLY MAKES EVERYONE WANT TO KILL EVERYTHING IN SIGHT SCREW BUILDING BASES OR FIXING THE AURORA OR EXPLORING THE PLAYERS WILL ONLY WANT TO MURDER AND KILL AND I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I MAKE DECISIONS FOR PEOPLE BEFORE THEY'RE EVEN ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS"
I mean it'd be different if it wasn't the exact same presumptuous nonsense every single time.
Nothing stops you from killing everything you see now. With repulsor you can even lay some devastation on biomes. I actually played first time that version having superagressive predators all around, thought it should be that way, and had to kill and ram them in dozens to see the world. And it really feels just stupid fighting a fish. Having a weapons wouldn't change that. But if there are weapons, there will be no point in having other means of dealing with agressive fauna. And if you make weapons expensive\rare\unusable to extent where it can't be used freely, why do even bother with implementing it, instead of other more fun stuff?
04LeonhardtI came here to laugh at youJoin Date: 2015-08-01Member: 206618Members
edited August 2015
Because fighting for your life is fun
Different people have fun in different ways.
For a game like this, variety is crucial.
Unless you want the player to be railroaded into playing the exact same way every time.
You won't get unlimited harpoons to spear everything ever all the time and murder everything instantly. If you throw one at a thing, you'll have to go get it back. Some people will enjoy doing this. Others will think it's tedious and prefer a more passive way of playing the game. Both are fine, and encouraged for a healthy player community to thrive.
There's no fighting for your life, nor challenge, or even hunting exicitement. You just grab your tool (stasis rifle, seamoth, cyclops or the weapon you eager ) and kill it. Repeat x times. That's what we're talking about? A gun to kill stalkers, bonesharks and may be even leviathans? I think devs can come up with dozens of much more interesting ways of interacting with it, than just "kill it with your gun". There's also a plenty of games that allows you to kill everything you want and can imagine, and subnautica stands out with it's alien wildlife, with it's emphasis on exploration, studying, observing, thats why it's so fun, let it stay that way and develop it's feautures even more, not to turn to an average underwater shooter with survival elements.
have you...never...played the game....the futility of your efforts to kill the big baddies ADDS to the game.
I had, but i never realised that we're talking about futile weapons here, and not the way to kill predators straight way.
There's no fighting for your life, nor challenge, or even hunting exicitement. You just grab your tool (stasis rifle, seamoth, cyclops or the weapon you eager ) and kill it. Repeat x times. That's what we're talking about? A gun to kill stalkers, bonesharks and may be even leviathans? I think devs can come up with dozens of much more interesting ways of interacting with it, than just "kill it with your gun". There's also a plenty of games that allows you to kill everything you want and can imagine, and subnautica stands out with it's alien wildlife, with it's emphasis on exploration, studying, observing, thats why it's so fun, let it stay that way and develop it's feautures even more, not to turn to an average underwater shooter with survival elements.
have you...never...played the game....the futility of your efforts to kill the big baddies ADDS to the game.
I had, but i never realised that we're talking about futile weapons here, and not the way to kill predators straight way.
you can kill the humans and the working joes, but not the xenomorph.
you can kill the stalkers and the bone sharks , but not the leviathans or the sea emperor.
see what i'm getting at. you get a sense of "i can take on the world" and then have that nice happy feeling ripped from you when you meet the big bad guy,
then later in the game you get the flamethrower, (i don't know what the subnautica equivalent would be here but im sure i'll think of something. ) allowing you to scare the big guy temporarily, maybe in this case you sling a spear at the leviathan and it slowly learns to attack you from behind or how to ambush you near rare resources.
i don't want this to be a shoot em up any more then i want any survival game to be a shoot em up.
tyler111762, but why do you want to turn anything smaller than leviathan to meaningless "humans and working joes" dummy enemies, rather than have a variety of species, that have it's own flavor and with which you should interact in different than "kill it with gun" ways, like an alien? And having a weapons to easily deal 90% of agressive lifeform engaments will turn this engaments into annoying routine.
How about some kind of high-frequency sonar emitter (like a dog whistle) that drives away creatures? If you use it too much, they start to ignore it and are instead more inclined to attack you.
Well that would be a problem with the balance and not the concept. I mean just to get the sound byte out of the way since if they don't add weapons I'm not really going to be concerned I'm usually not invested in these topics, however if they added such a weapon and it was able to deal with 90% of the predators that's a balance issue. Or in another sense able to deal with 90% effectively essentially making the meta more shallow. However that's actually still a concern with non lethal weapons too so it's not a lethal thing. For example the stasis rifle right now literally deals with 100% of everything and is not lethal. Then it's gets even better with the knife making it better than any speargun since spear guns don't freeze an enemy completely while you turn it into sushi. Different weapons can have different mechanics strengths and weakness that are better suited for monster A but bad or very inefficient for monster B, for both lethal tools and more "creative" tools.
I do agree with leon that allowing the player styles to diverge is a good thing for this game in General, for all tech the devs want to add.
why harpoons?? why a gun at all?? . You have 2 weapons that shoot energy beams and either hold said victim in place, blow them away or pull them to you. So why do you need a gun? I have no problem with something with a little more oomph for the big bads .. but non-lethal weaponry should kind of be the modality here. I mean worst case scenario they just add a pulse setting to the stasis gun where you can detonate your fields .. or make it into a pulse rifle.
In fact, I believe, isolated breeding for fishes, and finding renewable food sources that can be farmed inside a base, or simply things other than fish needs to be a thing. eventually the game needs to discourage you from fishing.
(Not against killing animals for sustenance, but just saying that if this planet is evolutionarily where I think it is, the things we are chowing down on in the game, are not much bigger then what evolutionary biologists and archaeologists say we ad other vertebrates evolved from ..... just go look up the Pikaia)
Comments
And again as I said the very second set of sentences in my very first post said plainly:
"Here is my point. Add weapons, don't add weapons, I could care less..."
So where do you get off telling me my post was "again the circular logic of "other survival games have guns, so if this is a survival game this should have guns too!".
I didn't start insulting people and replying to incorrect interpretations of what other people said. I didn't reply aggressively until you both jumped on my case.
As to whether or not the predators are overpowered (which again is not what I said, I said favored) that is purely a matter of opinion.
Nor at any point in time did I say that the protagonist was not a scientist. Which portion of game mechanics vs backstory isn't clear to you?
As for the DNA transfuser you refer to, is it a major gameplay element presently? Does it significantly add gameplay opportunities? I hope in the future it does.
Speaking of which you also conveniently ignored that I said that I hoped the game advanced further in an exploratory direction. Let me expand on that by saying that I enjoy exploration and discovery. Especially of a scientific nature. It happens to be my favorite part of 4x games, and an area I consider to be sadly underdeveloped in most games claiming it. (And before anyone stupidly misinterprets that, no I am not saying I think this is a 4x game, so don't bother with stupid replies about it).
Edit:Btw I just read the thread about DNA injections and the DNA Transfuser. Let me see if I understand this correctly. Your idea of scientific research is yet another item that is used to enhance your survivability in terms of game mechanics?
Survival game.
If there is truly an argument for scientific discovery for this game, I expect to see a way to examine and catalog various indigenous species and geographical features and learn about them.
Nope that's fine, and don't apologize, the forums are for arguing :P
but on topic, i don't think weapons should ever be really craftable in this game, maybe if they had to implement them, have them on board the aurora, but id think it would only be like, security weapons, like a stun baton / taser, at worst a hand gun. I just feel that this game would benefit from more weaponry.
no fire arms. wouldn't make sense to have chemical propelent weapons underwater akin to modern smokeless powder.
spear fishing, fishing rods, harpoon launchers ( Hawaiian sling), and maybe a vehicle mounted rail gun for extreme end game reaper and crab squid/ sea emperor defense maybe,
all i want is somthing other then a damn knife, a stasis rifle, and a gravity gun. christ give me a way to throw my damn knife with a semblance of consistency and i'll be happy.
horrid history? im now curious?
Whaling, basically... I'm sure there are other examples but that's what I was thinking of
oh well thats a stretch. cars have a bad history of drunk driving. submarines have a bad history of killing sailors, spoon have a bad history of making people fat
and by harpoon i don't mean this
i mean't like this
Right, hence why I said "history" lol... and how is it a stretch? Just because other things are also used violently doesn't mean that harpoons are violent a stretch, I'm confused
I've never had issues with predators, even reapers ignore me because I am always swimming around, rarely use a sea moth.
I don't use a stasis rifle or propulsion/repulsion gun.
I get bitten fairly often, normally when my tunnel vision leads me to completely not see an annoyed creature, and I hear it just as it attacks, but rarely more than 3 times in a single play session.
Admittedly I haven't played since the ferocity of the animals was apparently turned up recently.
Out of interest, because I play the game in such a leisurely way, I suck, at least according to my You-Tube comments, haha.
So, you don't need to kill, or even harm them. You just need something that makes them stay away, witch could be some sort of frequency that interacts with the creatures brain, making them stay away from you, or just ignore you altogether.
Of course you would have to do research on the individual creatures to figure out what frequency it is, and a frequency that calms one creature down could make others go crazy.
Yes (honest!) but it was very late for me (see my timestamp) and had a long day, so my brain wasn't working right.
I apologize and I admit that my response was rather out-of-hand.
But that's the point of the expression, "an object has a history" it means that the people who used it made horrid use of it (in this case)
Is this literally the first videogame you've ever played?
Why do ever would want that? Just get a propulsor and click-grab as much fish as you want. No actual diver can even think of such a handy tool today.
Weapons are waste, would add nothing to gameplay. More complex predator behaviour, ways and needs to interact with them - that would be interesting. Also, that mix of feeling curious and unsafe that subnautica gives is really precious and rare. Weaponry and way to make yourself comfortable would spoil that.
weapons ruin the mood of fear?
alien isolation. that is all.
"Oh we should implement a harpoon to allow players to defend themselves and make hunting easier in the early game. Can't go wrong with a sharp stick!"
"THE PLAYERS WILL LITERALLY KILL THE ENTIRE OCEAN INSTANTLY AND NEVER PLAY THE GAME AGAIN OR EVEN TOUCH THE REST OF THE GAMEPLAY BECAUSE IF YOU ADD WEAPONS THAT AUTOMATICALLY MAKES EVERYONE WANT TO KILL EVERYTHING IN SIGHT SCREW BUILDING BASES OR FIXING THE AURORA OR EXPLORING THE PLAYERS WILL ONLY WANT TO MURDER AND KILL AND I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I MAKE DECISIONS FOR PEOPLE BEFORE THEY'RE EVEN ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS"
I mean it'd be different if it wasn't the exact same presumptuous nonsense every single time.
Different people have fun in different ways.
For a game like this, variety is crucial.
Unless you want the player to be railroaded into playing the exact same way every time.
You won't get unlimited harpoons to spear everything ever all the time and murder everything instantly. If you throw one at a thing, you'll have to go get it back. Some people will enjoy doing this. Others will think it's tedious and prefer a more passive way of playing the game. Both are fine, and encouraged for a healthy player community to thrive.
have you...never...played the game....the futility of your efforts to kill the big baddies ADDS to the game.
There's no fighting for your life, nor challenge, or even hunting exicitement. You just grab your tool (stasis rifle, seamoth, cyclops or the weapon you eager ) and kill it. Repeat x times. That's what we're talking about? A gun to kill stalkers, bonesharks and may be even leviathans? I think devs can come up with dozens of much more interesting ways of interacting with it, than just "kill it with your gun". There's also a plenty of games that allows you to kill everything you want and can imagine, and subnautica stands out with it's alien wildlife, with it's emphasis on exploration, studying, observing, thats why it's so fun, let it stay that way and develop it's feautures even more, not to turn to an average underwater shooter with survival elements.
I had, but i never realised that we're talking about futile weapons here, and not the way to kill predators straight way.
you can kill the humans and the working joes, but not the xenomorph.
you can kill the stalkers and the bone sharks , but not the leviathans or the sea emperor.
see what i'm getting at. you get a sense of "i can take on the world" and then have that nice happy feeling ripped from you when you meet the big bad guy,
then later in the game you get the flamethrower, (i don't know what the subnautica equivalent would be here but im sure i'll think of something. ) allowing you to scare the big guy temporarily, maybe in this case you sling a spear at the leviathan and it slowly learns to attack you from behind or how to ambush you near rare resources.
i don't want this to be a shoot em up any more then i want any survival game to be a shoot em up.
I do agree with leon that allowing the player styles to diverge is a good thing for this game in General, for all tech the devs want to add.
In fact, I believe, isolated breeding for fishes, and finding renewable food sources that can be farmed inside a base, or simply things other than fish needs to be a thing. eventually the game needs to discourage you from fishing.
(Not against killing animals for sustenance, but just saying that if this planet is evolutionarily where I think it is, the things we are chowing down on in the game, are not much bigger then what evolutionary biologists and archaeologists say we ad other vertebrates evolved from ..... just go look up the Pikaia)