My only reason for quoting was literally the Who is being childish now line, everything else I agree with you on
To be honest, I'm not sure I can think of more childish and spiteful behavior than threatening to quit working on something you enjoy in order to say "f*ck you" to the users because you didn't get your way.
I don't think it has anything to do with "getting your way". It was the push back to the idea itself. The gaming community acted as if they deserved the mods for free and that modders aren't entitled to anything for their work. It was the attitude that turned a lot of modders off.
I don't think it has anything to do with "getting your way". It was the push back to the idea itself. The gaming community acted as if they deserved the mods for free and that modders aren't entitled to anything for their work. It was the attitude that turned a lot of modders off.
Your wording is funny. Modders aren't entitled to anything for their work; they are entitled to charge whatever they want for their work as long as they comply with the terms set forth in the EULA/TOS etc. They also get to live with the consequences; good or bad.
When you sell something, you raise expectations far higher on what you produce. Dealing with the flood of whining and support requests seems like more trouble than its worth unless you expect to make > $1000; but that should be on each modder to decide.
My only reason for quoting was literally the Who is being childish now line, everything else I agree with you on
To be honest, I'm not sure I can think of more childish and spiteful behavior than threatening to quit working on something you enjoy in order to say "f*ck you" to the users because you didn't get your way.
Modding isn't all fun and games. A lot of what they do is intensely boring (debugging, support...) and they only do it because of some sense of camaraderie with the community or because they love the game and want it to succeed. Many of them became disabused of the notion that there is some kind of abstract community out there who cares about what they do, more than merely wanting free stuff.
I think many of them will take the hint and quit modding and instead band toghether and make their own games on unreal 4 or unity, or continue to mod and only share their mods with friends.
Can anyone imagine a world where the dev/publisher of the game will allow paid-for mods without taking a cut themselves? Maybe for some based small/indie devs, but no company like Bethesda would ever allow it.
Following that, Bethesda should never ever get money for having someone else fix their bugs, fix their balance issues, or otherwise improve on their shitty work. It will only encourage them to make shittier, buggier, more broken games in the future and fail to support them themselves.
Mods that fix bugs, rebalance the game, or otherwise generally improve on whats already there... things that either should be patched FOR FREE or have been in the base game to start with, should never consider charging for their work. Even if the company who made the game wasn't getting a cut, there is something absolutely morally reprehensible about charging for that sort of thing. The kind of modders that are angry because we wouldn't let them sell this crap... fuck em. They betrayed US, and whether they leave themselves or not their actions have been noted.
Mods that add completely new content however, those are far more acceptable. I do not support microtransactions and therefor would not accept someone charging for a weapon, for example. Selling cheat items also gets you on my shit list same as it does in the form of official DLC. But when you start adding major quests, areas, entire new worlds, game modes or whatever else makes sense in the kind of game your modding, then there's nothing wrong with charging for it, in itself.
In itself, there's nothing wrong, but the act of selling mods creates problems, especially via steam and steam workshop. If you sell it, it MUST work, and you MUST support it through any future game patches and expansions. Steam does not allow users to opt-out of updates, whether for the game or for the workshop mods, so you can't simply forget it when the game updates and tell people to keep the prior version. Outside of steam there's a little more leeway, but paying still comes with an expectation of support.
There's NO way for a service like steam to enforce that though. You can't get refunds from modders months or years down the line, the money is already gone. They aren't likely to care about losing the future income on the mod either, since the bulk of the sales will be behind them. It's different for a game, even an early access game, because you the buyer still have what you paid for even if the developer abandons it. You actually lose that if an update breaks compatibility. The only modders whom one can place even a modicum of trust in are the ones who are willing to spend their OWN money to promote and sell the mod in the first place, but even they will eventually just disappear.
combat should've been a dlc content that way people don't want to switch game to play it.
It's been said, and it would definitely have been better for both games. The creators of Combat claim that it wasn't possible for what they wanted to do. Too many engine changes or some such. For what it's worth I believe them.
Can anyone imagine a world where the dev/publisher of the game will allow paid-for mods without taking a cut themselves? Maybe for some based small/indie devs, but no company like Bethesda would ever allow it.
Following that, Bethesda should never ever get money for having someone else fix their bugs, fix their balance issues, or otherwise improve on their shitty work. It will only encourage them to make shittier, buggier, more broken games in the future and fail to support them themselves.
Mods that fix bugs, rebalance the game, or otherwise generally improve on whats already there... things that either should be patched FOR FREE or have been in the base game to start with, should never consider charging for their work. Even if the company who made the game wasn't getting a cut, there is something absolutely morally reprehensible about charging for that sort of thing. The kind of modders that are angry because we wouldn't let them sell this crap... fuck em. They betrayed US, and whether they leave themselves or not their actions have been noted.
Mods that add completely new content however, those are far more acceptable. I do not support microtransactions and therefor would not accept someone charging for a weapon, for example. Selling cheat items also gets you on my shit list same as it does in the form of official DLC. But when you start adding major quests, areas, entire new worlds, game modes or whatever else makes sense in the kind of game your modding, then there's nothing wrong with charging for it, in itself.
In itself, there's nothing wrong, but the act of selling mods creates problems, especially via steam and steam workshop. If you sell it, it MUST work, and you MUST support it through any future game patches and expansions. Steam does not allow users to opt-out of updates, whether for the game or for the workshop mods, so you can't simply forget it when the game updates and tell people to keep the prior version. Outside of steam there's a little more leeway, but paying still comes with an expectation of support.
There's NO way for a service like steam to enforce that though. You can't get refunds from modders months or years down the line, the money is already gone. They aren't likely to care about losing the future income on the mod either, since the bulk of the sales will be behind them. It's different for a game, even an early access game, because you the buyer still have what you paid for even if the developer abandons it. You actually lose that if an update breaks compatibility. The only modders whom one can place even a modicum of trust in are the ones who are willing to spend their OWN money to promote and sell the mod in the first place, but even they will eventually just disappear.
especially since recently they tried to take 60% after valve took 30% so the person who actually did 100% of the work only got 10%
Can anyone imagine a world where the dev/publisher of the game will allow paid-for mods without taking a cut themselves? Maybe for some based small/indie devs, but no company like Bethesda would ever allow it.
Following that, Bethesda should never ever get money for having someone else fix their bugs, fix their balance issues, or otherwise improve on their shitty work. It will only encourage them to make shittier, buggier, more broken games in the future and fail to support them themselves.
Mods that fix bugs, rebalance the game, or otherwise generally improve on whats already there... things that either should be patched FOR FREE or have been in the base game to start with, should never consider charging for their work. Even if the company who made the game wasn't getting a cut, there is something absolutely morally reprehensible about charging for that sort of thing. The kind of modders that are angry because we wouldn't let them sell this crap... fuck em. They betrayed US, and whether they leave themselves or not their actions have been noted.
Mods that add completely new content however, those are far more acceptable. I do not support microtransactions and therefor would not accept someone charging for a weapon, for example. Selling cheat items also gets you on my shit list same as it does in the form of official DLC. But when you start adding major quests, areas, entire new worlds, game modes or whatever else makes sense in the kind of game your modding, then there's nothing wrong with charging for it, in itself.
In itself, there's nothing wrong, but the act of selling mods creates problems, especially via steam and steam workshop. If you sell it, it MUST work, and you MUST support it through any future game patches and expansions. Steam does not allow users to opt-out of updates, whether for the game or for the workshop mods, so you can't simply forget it when the game updates and tell people to keep the prior version. Outside of steam there's a little more leeway, but paying still comes with an expectation of support.
There's NO way for a service like steam to enforce that though. You can't get refunds from modders months or years down the line, the money is already gone. They aren't likely to care about losing the future income on the mod either, since the bulk of the sales will be behind them. It's different for a game, even an early access game, because you the buyer still have what you paid for even if the developer abandons it. You actually lose that if an update breaks compatibility. The only modders whom one can place even a modicum of trust in are the ones who are willing to spend their OWN money to promote and sell the mod in the first place, but even they will eventually just disappear.
especially since recently they tried to take 60% after valve took 30% so the person who actually did 100% of the work only got 10%
Did something else happen that I'm not aware of? Because the steam workshop skyrim deal was 25% to modders, 30% to valve, and 45% to bethesda iirc. Payable (to modders) only in increments of $100 also.
Comments
To be honest, I'm not sure I can think of more childish and spiteful behavior than threatening to quit working on something you enjoy in order to say "f*ck you" to the users because you didn't get your way.
Your wording is funny. Modders aren't entitled to anything for their work; they are entitled to charge whatever they want for their work as long as they comply with the terms set forth in the EULA/TOS etc. They also get to live with the consequences; good or bad.
When you sell something, you raise expectations far higher on what you produce. Dealing with the flood of whining and support requests seems like more trouble than its worth unless you expect to make > $1000; but that should be on each modder to decide.
Modding isn't all fun and games. A lot of what they do is intensely boring (debugging, support...) and they only do it because of some sense of camaraderie with the community or because they love the game and want it to succeed. Many of them became disabused of the notion that there is some kind of abstract community out there who cares about what they do, more than merely wanting free stuff.
I think many of them will take the hint and quit modding and instead band toghether and make their own games on unreal 4 or unity, or continue to mod and only share their mods with friends.
Following that, Bethesda should never ever get money for having someone else fix their bugs, fix their balance issues, or otherwise improve on their shitty work. It will only encourage them to make shittier, buggier, more broken games in the future and fail to support them themselves.
Mods that fix bugs, rebalance the game, or otherwise generally improve on whats already there... things that either should be patched FOR FREE or have been in the base game to start with, should never consider charging for their work. Even if the company who made the game wasn't getting a cut, there is something absolutely morally reprehensible about charging for that sort of thing. The kind of modders that are angry because we wouldn't let them sell this crap... fuck em. They betrayed US, and whether they leave themselves or not their actions have been noted.
Mods that add completely new content however, those are far more acceptable. I do not support microtransactions and therefor would not accept someone charging for a weapon, for example. Selling cheat items also gets you on my shit list same as it does in the form of official DLC. But when you start adding major quests, areas, entire new worlds, game modes or whatever else makes sense in the kind of game your modding, then there's nothing wrong with charging for it, in itself.
In itself, there's nothing wrong, but the act of selling mods creates problems, especially via steam and steam workshop. If you sell it, it MUST work, and you MUST support it through any future game patches and expansions. Steam does not allow users to opt-out of updates, whether for the game or for the workshop mods, so you can't simply forget it when the game updates and tell people to keep the prior version. Outside of steam there's a little more leeway, but paying still comes with an expectation of support.
There's NO way for a service like steam to enforce that though. You can't get refunds from modders months or years down the line, the money is already gone. They aren't likely to care about losing the future income on the mod either, since the bulk of the sales will be behind them. It's different for a game, even an early access game, because you the buyer still have what you paid for even if the developer abandons it. You actually lose that if an update breaks compatibility. The only modders whom one can place even a modicum of trust in are the ones who are willing to spend their OWN money to promote and sell the mod in the first place, but even they will eventually just disappear.
It's been said, and it would definitely have been better for both games. The creators of Combat claim that it wasn't possible for what they wanted to do. Too many engine changes or some such. For what it's worth I believe them.
especially since recently they tried to take 60% after valve took 30% so the person who actually did 100% of the work only got 10%
Did something else happen that I'm not aware of? Because the steam workshop skyrim deal was 25% to modders, 30% to valve, and 45% to bethesda iirc. Payable (to modders) only in increments of $100 also.