Passive Ugrades
STDGoosey
Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9714Members
Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9714Members
<div class="IPBDescription">They really do own..</div> Ok here is what I wanna say: Passive upgrades (weapon/armor) really do kickass and are definently worth their value even on small teams (like6v6), but marines JUST DONT APPRECIATE THEM!
I always go for getting my marines at 3/3 first. I havn't dont any math on it, but from how it seems- a 3/3 marine with LMG/light armor is as strong as a 1/1 marine with HMG/heavy. If you get caught in a situation where u controll 1 hive and the other 2 are controlled by aliens then the upgrades may mean the difference between a win and a loss. It is really satisfying to see skilled LMG toting marines run down a fade because their upgrades are so strong.
But often the marines don't even notice they are stronger. When I do this they often say I suck as a commander because I am not getting them upgrades. I even was kicked out of the chair in a game WE WERE WINNING because i 'wasn't upgrading'. You see... soo many marines only notice tangible changes. They only notice HMGs and heavy armor.
So please marines look at the right side of the screen before yelling at the commander for not upgrading. If the commander is keeping the resources down then you should not complain anyway. Have faith in that whatever he is spening them on, it is the best possible way to do so. HMGs/Heavy are no the end-all of NS.
I always go for getting my marines at 3/3 first. I havn't dont any math on it, but from how it seems- a 3/3 marine with LMG/light armor is as strong as a 1/1 marine with HMG/heavy. If you get caught in a situation where u controll 1 hive and the other 2 are controlled by aliens then the upgrades may mean the difference between a win and a loss. It is really satisfying to see skilled LMG toting marines run down a fade because their upgrades are so strong.
But often the marines don't even notice they are stronger. When I do this they often say I suck as a commander because I am not getting them upgrades. I even was kicked out of the chair in a game WE WERE WINNING because i 'wasn't upgrading'. You see... soo many marines only notice tangible changes. They only notice HMGs and heavy armor.
So please marines look at the right side of the screen before yelling at the commander for not upgrading. If the commander is keeping the resources down then you should not complain anyway. Have faith in that whatever he is spening them on, it is the best possible way to do so. HMGs/Heavy are no the end-all of NS.
Comments
I have done the math and I can tell you, no he is not.
The HA/HMG marine will still do about 75% more damage, and has 90 extra armor with 25% more absorption.
That being said, look at the costs:
To get 1 HA/HMG marine requires an Adv. Armory (60 RP), an Arms Lab (50 RP), a Prototype Lab (50 RP), HA research (50 RP), and the purchase of the HA (25 RP), and the HMG (25 RP), for a total cost of 260 RP for a single 1/1 HA/HMG marine.
To get an <i>entire team</i> of 3/3 LA/LMG marines requires an Arms Lab (50 RP), lvl 1-3 weapon upgrades (20 RP + 40 RP + 60 RP), and lvl 1-3 armor upgrades (20 RP + 40 RP + 60 RP) for a total of 290 RP.
A "stock" marine can take slightyly less than 150 damage before dying, and a lvl 3 armor upgraded marine can take 250 for a 66% increase in durability. The 3/3 marine will also enjoy a 30% boost in damage output. The HA/HMG marine will enjoy a 100% damage boost and 233% durability increase over the lowly stock marine.
So let's consider a 4 man team of marines. For an investment of 290 RP, you can increase their durability by 66% and damage by 30%. For 210 you can have HA/HMG prepped, and then it is a 50 RP investment per marine. For every HA/HMG marine, the group receives an overal bonus of 25% damage, and 58% durability increase.
Something that is harder to consider is the group dynamic once in combat. With such similar durability the 3/3 marines will all have similar life expectancies, whereas in the group with a single HA/HMG marine the others can be expected to die long before he does. In the HA/HMG group, 4 Skulk bites could take down 2 of the stock marines, but only 1 of the 3/3 marines. In fact, the 450 damage it would take to bring down all of the stock marines in the HA/HMG group would only bring down 1 of the 3/3 marines and leave another badly wounded (but able to be healed/welded). So after such a fight, the HA/HMG marine is left alone with no backup, but the upgraded marines have suffered only a single casualty.
This can of course be offset by buying more HA/HMG packages for your marines. With an extra 150 RP, it is possible to completely outfit our 4 man group, giving them a 100% damage and 233% durability increase over stock marines (53% damage/100% armor increase over the 3/3 group). However, for every marine that dies in the HA/HMG group, it costs 50 RP to re-equip, whereas the 3/3 marines are free to replace.
One last thing to consider is that in getting HA/HMG marines, you also put yourself in the position to get Jetpacks for an extra 25 RP, and with the Arms Lab built to get the Prototype labe you already have access to Grenade Launchers and armor/weapon upgrades.
Moral is a killer, let me tell you, and a good commander works on both upgrades at once anyways...getting passive upgrades and Ha and HMG's out to the troops.
...
Well I don't really but I consider it.
I like the passive upgrades because I tend to go without asking for equipment, and I likes being a vanilla marine.
1- If a HMG/heavy dies and no one is there to pick stuff up then it is wasted... while passive marines will continue to be strong when they respawn.
2- The RP spent on passive upgrades is spread out slowly. U never need to drop more then 60RP at one time, while when equipping marines you will be spening alot more at one time. This is something that must be considered because it is important.
3- Psychologically marines with LMG will be more aggressive because they know they are disposable, while equipped marines will often not be agressive enough (and let fades get away to regen)
4- You cant just load marines with HMG/heavy... if u dont give them welders also then they will get worn down and.. die
5-The fact that passive is the 'gift that keeps on giving' is important enough to say twice.
6- You don't need as many buildings for passive upgrades (only 1 extra is needed for armor, but sometimes getting a marine to come to base and build 1 building is very inconvenient.
I say go 3/3 and only then start going for HMG/Heavy. Of course if you are playing with people u know, and u KNOW they are very skilled and will do excellent with a shotty/jetpack or HMG/jetpack or even HMG/heavy/Welder team... then well do it. This is all said under the assumption that they dont know what they are doing.
one thing though, is that aliens will be more tentative to engage marines that they can see with ha/hmg on...the huge armor and big guns have a nice intimidation factor, and aliens will watch their step around them. how you use that is up to you O_o
Having really good marines for free doesn't help much if I can't have them before the Kharaa have 3 hives. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> That's why I'll usually go 1/1 then move on to Prot. Lab/HA research, the Adv. Armory and then more upgrades.
-edit
Yes tleng, it is more cost effective to get upgrades the more marines you have. A single suit of armor only gives an extra 350 total health, whereas each upgrade in armor gives ~35 health/marine. But remember that once the enemy gets Fades, their Acid Rocket's splash damage can quickly negate the upgrade bonuses. Either make sure your marines stay far enough apart not to get splashed on, or get some HA to compensate.
As for the upgrades, look closely at the icons. The pictures for <a href='http://C:\Games\Half-Life\ns\manual\front_upgrades_weapon.html' target='_blank'>weapon</a> and <a href='http://C:\Games\Half-Life\ns\manual\front_upgrades_armor.html' target='_blank'>armor</a> upgrades will get larger and more comlpex as the upgrade level increases.
75% of the time, all I want from Comm is a waypoint. Namely because I'm the first to die.
Anything that improves my odds straight from the spawnpoint is a good thing.
<ul>
<li>2 Shotguns and a welder
<li>A Shotgun, 2 welders, a pack of Tripmines and a Scanner Sweep
<li>2 resource towers and a couple of medkits
<li>The first armor and weapon upgrades, plus another welder (common item that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->)
<li>A pair of Phase Gates
<li>A backup CC and 2 Infantry Portals
<li>An Armory and a Turret Factory
<li>A Grenade Launcher, a Jetpack and Tripmine pack.
</ul>
And the list goes on. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The 3/3 upgrades gives your marines 75% greater durability and 30% more firepower - while Skulks can easily bite a 0/0 LMG/LA marine to death, a 3/3 LMG/LA marine can take 2 Skulks without breaking a sweat. The major thing is that permanent upgrades are a one-time cost. You pay that 40 resources, then for the rest of the game you have one more upgrade level. On the other hand, give out HMG/HA for 50 resources, and that investment can be eaten within seconds by a swarm of 3 Skulks or a very aggressive Fade.
Upgrades own all.
"ok, click on the middle icon, then the second from the left, then build it in front of me, then blah blah blah..."
:/